conavar

If that is the case (and only Radu can confirm what changes he made) and from oz's results it seems that attributes held WAY to much weight compared to a/d, and any weight removed from att's should be moved into a/d..... then those 3 players can go back to kicking oz's butt but that will because of the a/d differance rather than attributes.

The length of fights is a no win situation.... take to long and people complain it costs to much ..... are to short and people complain one item/spell is OPed (old bronze sword/harm). IMHO a fight should last long enough so that the outcome is determined by skill not luck but how long is that 2 , 4 , 10 mins ? Ofc, but when I hear of situation where late 130's char fights against top5 char for this long it kinda sucks, no? Long fights such as that happened before the TS changes, some fights are short, some are long there are to many variables (char Vs char builds, player skill, equipment usage etc ) to talk about a "perfect" fight length ... . or is it people upset that they might have to actually work to beat someone now ? Length of fights isnt really a reason IMO to not like this idea (your other reasons in your post are valid views), since if length of fights is a factor we should remove all things that make fights to short aswell ... 8x ACW summons, uber harms etc (Note: I dont want them things removing,is just an example)

The length of fights is a no win situation.... take to long and people complain it costs to much ..... are to short and people complain one item/spell is OPed (old bronze sword/harm). IMHO a fight should last long enough so that the outcome is determined by skill not luck but how long is that 2 , 4 , 10 mins ?

and that should count for something why? pp have been earned too, they relate to a/d, so i dont see why they should imbalance things just cause a few cant be bothered buying PP aswell I honestly hope your not asking why skill earned through leveling should count !! and PP still relate to a/d and bought PP's will still make a differance in char development, that hasnt been removed , just more emphasis has been assigned to the actual Leveled Combat skill rather than the PP's which is how it should be. Based on some statements you've made in previous posts, you shouldn't be "explaining" anything about fighting to anyone. Wait PP placement is hard ??? ermm isnt it P/C/R (how much depends on the player) then the players choice wether to go for Vit or Ins or a balance of the two.............. wow rocket science Edit: And before some smartass says he means per mob.. I know.. but thats not hard either. just dont place any pickpoint till after trying the next mob in the chain.. give a near spot on indication where the pickpoints need to go

If there is an inbalance then atleast it has been earned through leveling the relative skill and not just bought with Pickpoints

So the evil change hasnt made you weaker then ? People have been bitching about orange spam weapons/harms and summons for years, they will continue to moan about them if this change happens or not... this change wont make ppl moan since they already have been

What !!!! Fighters have money now ????? Damn and I could have sworn most of these ppl saying they will have millions they cant spend, were the same ones Begging Radu to increase mob drops, since competative PK was to expensive and some had been "forced" to buy GC for $ to keep up

Ooooh I like what ya done there +1

TBH if you only go to instance's and invasion to make money then you are soooooo playing the game for the wrong reasons, they should be done for fun

And also the way the system is now, you can increase your Fighting power by leveling non fighting skills Train alch > OA = PP's > PP's in attributes > higher fighting power Kinda like having an increased chance to manu dragon plate by training ranging

Ermmm Ermmm this isnt about PP buying and this statement ^^ contridicts (sp) why you said no to a/d holding more weight ( READ: More, not all, not most just more ) as people who havent been "lazy and bored" will have a bigger advantage than those that have. God forbid people will have to actually train their chars rather than just buy PP's (wether through stones or neg perks)

Never reset at high OA ? If you had you would realise that yes it is a punishment (based on how other MMO's handle resets).. Spend X amount of years developing your character and decide you want to go a differant track or change things you have the following options: A ) Spend another X amount of time earning GC to buy removal stones B ) Buy GC for $ and buy the stones on the market ( easiest option by far) C ) Reset and spend another 6 months to a year (maybe more) getting those OA levels back . Should the game be easy ? No it shouldnt, it should be fun not a lesson in hard labour. TBH Radu should just sell a soft reset service from the shop. $50 Resets all your perks and PP's while leaving OA intact.. win for the player, win for the game earning $ OA 143 Original owner and character never shared ( OA would be higher but stopped leveling 5-6 months ago)

This ^^ IMO its a no brainer... ALL skills should get the greatest benifit from the level of those skills and not from attributes

OR maybe instead of adding a new ore , the current unhavestables ones are used first. And why suggest something if you dont have a use for it in the opening post

sounds like a good solution, still most attributes maxed, but the example you gave about being able to remove their neg perks, they could use those PP for positive perks too, which is kinda what they are complaining about, too much pp and positive perks. Wasnt my intention if it came over like that The available to spend PP Pool would be a max 178 this would include any PP's spent on positive perks. Ie: Player A has 158 in stats and 20 in positive perks he would have reached his cap and be unable to spend anymore. After that point he would still earn PP's but be unable to spend them on stats or pos perks.. If he had taken a neg perk worth 7 PP's earlier in his char development, once he had 7 spare (in the unusable pool) he could remove that perk and still be left with his 178 in stats and perks. His character would be better off for the removal of the neg perk but not nerfed Vs any others

+1 on removing PP buying P.S. - hc, you need better arguments on this topic, the ones i read aren't convincing enough Conavar mentioned time and effort are the only ones that should matter, Gc is gained with time and effort, whether its bought with $ or not, time and efford is spended in earning that $ anyway so indirectly you spend time and effort on the Game getting it. saying time and effort should matter and not how much Gc you have is contradicting, see above. Its not contradicting at all.Maybe I didnt make it clear what I meant. In most MMO's the following applies A ) Time and effort spent leveling = Increases a characters levels/skills/attributes B ) Time and effort spent getting Gc = Increase the strength of items owned armour/weapons/ etc etc etc B should never have more than a minimal effect on A (This in other MMO's is normally achieved indirectly by having certain items give stat bonuses ie: Sword with +4 vit ). The time and effort of A should never be directly effected by B IMO this a debate both sides will never agree on, some like PP buying some dont (personally Since Im inactive Im not fussed) But a perfect compromise (sp) would be is to cap PP's able to be spent 178 (the max amount its possible to achieve through OA), then if a player chooses to buy PP's or get Neg perks to achieve their 178 quicker then so be it... but those who choose to level will catch them in the end when they reach 178 OA . If you reached 150 OA and with neg Perks/PP buying had reached 178 spent PP's you would still earn a new one PP per OA but be unable to spend them, they could then be saved up to remove any neg perks that player had bought to Quicken their power.... The end result would be no matter if a player chose the quick route or the slow they would both reach the same point in the end

The point lorck and Korrode are making is.. imagine this game is still about in another 5-6 years and PP buying has been kept.. How many player by then are going to have stupidily high stats ? So not only will "new future" players have to spend X amount of time playing to catch up to a/d they will also have to spend X amount of time/gc or $ to catch up with bought PP's PP buying inbalanced now ?.. not really.. but in the future the inbalance will grow with each passing year... so for the "long term" future its bad for the game

Alot of people have stated in their opinion why removing them would be good for the game long term, but no ones has really giving any opinions about how they think "for the game long term " it would be good left in. Has anyone got any good reasons why it should be left in ? note: Just curious, doesnt bother me if they kept in or removed tbh

I think expansion of content would be good regardless of whether the caps get lowered. What did you have in mind? Idea's for content is the easy, just steal idea's from any other successful MMO out there like WoW. The hardest part and this is where I have sympathy for Radu is having the time and people to programme them

You don't have to stop using a skill just because you hit level 100 in it. Feel free to keep mixing or keep fighting or whatever. That's why you trained that skill, right? So you could be good at it and make use of it, right? Thats why I said a major expansion of content would be needed. If caps came in tommorrow, once you reach 100 A/D and OA , then outside of the odd invasion, 1 instance per level range (which after a few times are boring) or PKing then there is nothing to do, the game would become very stale very quick

That arguement can be used both ways... Should someone who's spent a few months on his char be able to buy PP's and beat someone who hasnt and has spent 5 years on theirs ? Which ever way you look at it the answer is no they shouldnt, but that should be because the top players have earned their levels by "training" not by spending gc or $. That is where the major fault is , being able to buy strength rather than earn it... if the system had been OA 1-120 1 pp per level then OA 121-178 2 PP's per level no one would complain, since those PP's are still earned like they should be in any MMO

To put it bluntly.................. What a load of bollox. You have seem to have forgotten the major debate in another topic (which you yourself have posted in) about Pickpoint buying. If A/D and OA is capped at 100 for example, the ability to buy PP's will INCREASE the gap between those who buy and those who dont not make it any less. That would need a major expansion of things for people to do... You reach the cap in your chosing skill and OA then what ? "Train another skill" I hear you say..erm what if people dont like the other skills. What if a fighter doesnt like sitting in a cave all day mixing, or a mixer doesnt like Fighting ?

This is definitely an issue with PP buying as it currently stands. If there were a way to increase the number of hydro bars (or other cost) for a successive "bought" pickpoint, this would implement a built-in soft cap for pickpoint buying; one which is more in line with the 5% extra exp per level (past level 89) we have now for the skills. If each successive bought pickpoint required more hydro bars, eventually each ebul pickpoint buyer would either find a breaking point, or simply channel out even more gc worth of hydro bars. Another option could be e.g. 50 hydro plus some gc per additional nexus bought from the npc. I don't know how easy it would be to program, but if the NPC (I forget the name) charged 50 hydro + 50k additional gc per successive bought pickpoint*, eventually this cost would be unbearable, or just an awesome gc sink . * Edit: I mean it would be 50 hydro for the first bought nexus, 50hydro+50k gc for #2, 50hydro+100kgc for #3, etc. Ok idea in theory, but in reality it would only increase the gap between those who have already bought PP's vs those who intend to. Imo there are only three possible solutions A ) Either leave it how it is, so everyone has the same option to buy PP's in the same way as those before them B ) Totally remove PP buying (which would include those already bought by other players) C ) Remove combat bonses from cross attributes and move them to the corresponding skill All would bring "OMGZ thats sooo unfair" .......... just glad its not my choice to have to make Edit: Forgot C ( need more coffee this early in the morning )

Not really aimed just at PP buying but at the whole aspect of the game: How much gc/money a person spends on their character should NEVER have more than a minimal effect on the characters strength in any MMO, the first two you listed "time and effort" are the only ones that should matter in any part of the game not just PK , and lets not fool ourselves most players know the majority of PKer's bought PP's dont come through hard work or effort, but through $ > GC. How good a player is at any part of any game should come by how good their ingame skills are, character development , Time spent leveling, etc etc and never how much gc/$ they throw about on items or PP's

Dont need to remove PP buying, just move any combat related bonuses from cross attributes to the relavent skill Cross attributes can still determine Emu, Health, Mana, Reduced research time etc but current combat bonuses would be moved Ie: Dex > Att Reac > Def Charm > summon Would also have the added bonus of skills like magic would 100% depend on the mages skill level and not the number of neg perks they have taken to place PP's into attributes