RallosZek

The opposite will be true by the way. Scales are guaranteed drop and any char worth buying is able to get him/her one or two for a repair as opposed to the 10-fold in gc to replace it.

Voted yes. Less newbs in dragon + therm serp on polar bears is good.

It's a bit hard paying attention to astro, overshot it a few days now, but will continue testing and post final results when I have them. The point is that the cost don't factor in. For one, I can make them myself and 4-5k for a scale is not going to upset me and for two, the sooner I'm done with training the more time I can spend on harvesting those extract flowers or whatever I really need to do. That's one of the target markets you described earlier. Although chances are that this won't result in market sales, since they're low pot level (whole pot top 50 is above comfort level for these pots), it will take scales out of the market. When it is useful for me? Time saved >10minutes and/or more attack exp then def exp with comparable oa.

RallosZek - 5*10k sulfur - 5*22k/110k

Don't contradict yourself. This is first of a series of tests: 1) See what is optimal at current training monster and if extra oa/hour is worth it 2) Scale down one monster in my case fluffy, att only 3) Scale down two, in my case clops, att only I personally don't like scaling down, cause those spawns should be for people at those levels, but I'm often in Egratia hunting feran horns, seeing either no one or people fighting in full tit with cutty doing crap for damage and needing 2-3 restores, so on those occasions I wouldn't mind.

Did a test: 93/97 a/d unmod 36/48/44 p/c/w astro: -1 att, 0 def, 0 acc, -1 magic godless feros Modded attack to -29, which was far too optimistic. Around 5k att and 25k def out of two kills. Kept looking at att exp flow and settled on -7 to -2. Results with 15 pots: 148k att 204k def 1 hour 10 mins Will amend post tomorrow with unmodded results, but off memory, the difference isn't much.

12k bid and buying the reasoning removal for 20k, sorry found seller for the reasoning already

Magic removal - Tiger lillies IotF (and serp and binding in the same hour) Instinct removal - Coal - PV Phys removal - WormWood - EVTR

Just a thought: How about an extra quest for attack god? Since effectively this means 5% less attack and 5% more def on average and game is already geared towards def as is.

I think this is best implemented by a level based damage cap. Note that sacrificing carry for rationality will severely slow down your leveling in the end. Being able to do only 40-60 MD casts per run, not being able to harvest fast to pay for essies, etc. If the damage (and restore ammount) is level capped, then it requires far more work to grow such a mage and is probably more something for a second build of a character, rather then a fast leveled alt. Of course then there should be an 'epic' level, where the cap is lifted. Somewhere 80's or 90's I reckon. On the other hand, if the game had resists (caster vs defender magic level determines chance that spell can be resisted and do no damage) this would be a totally different ballgame.

RallosZek - 10k wheat - 10kgc

Inline is static by default, because a compiler can't inline what it doesn't know. If you declare extern, linking final binary fails with undefined functions. Sure, providing the function definition in the header works, I'm just curious why one would do so when all this function does is return the index of a global array as a GLuint, which is the same as casting the accessed member, minus a function pointer.

Local patchset below: "inline function declared but not defined". Also, it's so simple, I've macroed it. This only goes bad if items_text is shadowed by a less then global scope variable, which is bad practice anyway. CUSTOM_UPDATE not defined generates compiler error % cc -v Using built-in specs. Target: i386-undermydesk-freebsd Configured with: FreeBSD/i386 system compiler Thread model: posix gcc version 4.2.1 20070719 [FreeBSD] Index: items.c =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/elc/elc/items.c,v retrieving revision 1.176 diff -u -r1.176 items.c --- items.c 8 May 2009 23:51:53 -0000 1.176 +++ items.c 21 Aug 2009 07:32:36 -0000 @@ -90,10 +90,12 @@ static void drop_all_handler(); +#ifndef BSD __inline__ GLuint get_items_texture(int no) { return items_text[no]; } +#endif void set_shown_string(char colour_code, const char *the_text) { Index: items.h =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/elc/elc/items.h,v retrieving revision 1.51 diff -u -r1.51 items.h --- items.h 2 Feb 2009 21:06:24 -0000 1.51 +++ items.h 21 Aug 2009 07:32:36 -0000 @@ -162,7 +162,11 @@ * \param no id of the item * \retval GLuint the texture id associated with \a no. */ +#ifndef BSD __inline__ GLuint get_items_texture(int no); +#else +#define get_items_texture(__no) (GLuint)items_text[__no] +#endif /*! * \ingroup items_window Index: new_actors.c =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/elc/elc/new_actors.c,v retrieving revision 1.166 diff -u -r1.166 new_actors.c --- new_actors.c 10 May 2009 01:44:09 -0000 1.166 +++ new_actors.c 21 Aug 2009 07:32:37 -0000 @@ -261,7 +261,11 @@ char buffer[256]; // check to see if ANY processing needs to be done +#ifdef CUSTOM_UPDATE if(!path || !*path || !custom_clothing) return; +#else + if(!path || !*path ) return; +#endif /* Check if custom1 has path readable */ safe_snprintf(buffer, sizeof(buffer), "%s%s", custom1, path);

Thought I'd mention this. If you set Option UseEvents "True" in xorg.conf with the nvidia driver el runs with pauses. Meaning it'll run/freeze/run/freeze. From any keyboard or mouse event onwards. Just clicking in the login box and then pressing alt-x takes anywhere from 2 to 10 seconds to get to SDL_Quit. It's however not specific to el. Glest and auteria suffer from the same issue, however boswars and apoolGL do not. If you're really interested in fixing it, I might be able to do some tracing, but I don't think many use this option.

[22:50:49] Video card: GeForce Go 7600/PCI/SSE2 [22:50:49] Vendor ID: NVIDIA Corporation [22:50:49] OpenGL Version: 2.1.2 NVIDIA 180.60 [22:50:49] Supported extensions: GL_ARB_color_buffer_float GL_ARB_depth_texture GL_ARB_draw_buffers GL_ARB_fragment_program GL_ARB_fragment_program_shadow GL_ARB_fragment_shader GL_ARB_half_float_pixel GL_ARB_half_float_vertex GL_ARB_framebuffer_object GL_ARB_imaging GL_ARB_map_buffer_range GL_ARB_multisample GL_ARB_multitexture GL_ARB_occlusion_query GL_ARB_pixel_buffer_object GL_ARB_point_parameters GL_ARB_point_sprite GL_ARB_shadow GL_ARB_shader_objects GL_ARB_shading_language_100 GL_ARB_texture_border_clamp GL_ARB_texture_compression GL_ARB_texture_cube_map GL_ARB_texture_env_add GL_ARB_texture_env_combine GL_ARB_texture_env_dot3 GL_ARB_texture_float GL_ARB_texture_mirrored_repeat GL_ARB_texture_non_power_of_two GL_ARB_texture_rectangle GL_ARB_transpose_matrix GL_ARB_vertex_array_object GL_ARB_vertex_buffer_object GL_ARB_vertex_program GL_ARB_vertex_shader GL_ARB_window_pos GL_ATI_draw_buffers GL_ATI_texture_float GL_ATI_texture_mirror_once GL_S3_s3tc GL_EXT_texture_env_add GL_EXT_abgr GL_EXT_bgra GL_EXT_blend_color GL_EXT_blend_equation_separate GL_EXT_blend_func_separate GL_EXT_blend_minmax GL_EXT_blend_subtract GL_EXT_compiled_vertex_array GL_EXT_Cg_shader GL_EXT_depth_bounds_test GL_EXT_direct_state_access GL_EXT_draw_range_elements GL_EXT_fog_coord GL_EXT_framebuffer_blit GL_EXT_framebuffer_multisample GL_EXT_framebuffer_object GL_EXT_gpu_program_parameters GL_EXT_multi_draw_arrays GL_EXT_packed_depth_stencil GL_EXT_packed_pixels GL_EXT_pixel_buffer_object GL_EXT_point_parameters GL_EXT_rescale_normal GL_EXT_secondary_color GL_EXT_separate_specular_color GL_EXT_shadow_funcs GL_EXT_stencil_two_side GL_EXT_stencil_wrap GL_EXT_texture3D GL_EXT_texture_compression_s3tc GL_EXT_texture_cube_map GL_EXT_texture_edge_clamp GL_EXT_texture_env_combine GL_EXT_texture_env_dot3 GL_EXT_texture_filter_anisotropic GL_EXT_texture_lod GL_EXT_texture_lod_bias GL_EXT_texture_mirror_clamp GL_EXT_texture_object GL_EXT_texture_sRGB GL_EXT_texture_swizzle GL_EXT_timer_query GL_EXT_vertex_array GL_EXT_vertex_array_bgra GL_IBM_rasterpos_clip GL_IBM_texture_mirrored_repeat GL_KTX_buffer_region GL_NV_blend_square GL_NV_copy_depth_to_color GL_NV_depth_clamp GL_NV_fence GL_NV_float_buffer GL_NV_fog_distance GL_NV_fragment_program GL_NV_fragment_program_option GL_NV_fragment_program2 GL_NV_framebuffer_multisample_coverage GL_NV_half_float GL_NV_light_max_exponent GL_NV_multisample_filter_hint GL_NV_occlusion_query GL_NV_packed_depth_stencil GL_NV_pixel_data_range GL_NV_point_sprite GL_NV_primitive_restart GL_NV_register_combiners GL_NV_register_combiners2 GL_NV_texgen_reflection GL_NV_texture_compression_vtc GL_NV_texture_env_combine4 GL_NV_texture_expand_normal GL_NV_texture_rectangle GL_NV_texture_shader GL_NV_texture_shader2 GL_NV_texture_shader3 GL_NV_vertex_array_range GL_NV_vertex_array_range2 GL_NV_vertex_program GL_NV_vertex_program1_1 GL_NV_vertex_program2 GL_NV_vertex_program2_option GL_NV_vertex_program3 GL_NVX_conditional_render GL_SGIS_generate_mipmap GL_SGIS_texture_lod GL_SGIX_depth_texture GL_SGIX_shadow GL_SUN_slice_accum FreeBSD 8.0 BETA 2. Another (older) machine, also nvidia card with FreeBSD 7.2 same issue. From nvidia-xconfig manpage: --use-events, --no-use-events Enable or disable "UseEvents" X configuration option. Setting this option will enable the X driver to use the system events in some cases when it is waiting for the hardware. With this option X driver sets an event handler and waits for the hardware through the poll() system call. This option defaults to FALSE.

In case you haven't noticed, this isn't about the mini events anymore. This is about eliminating AFK harvesting all together and if you think this will only hurt harvesters you are sadly mistaken. When this will be successfully implemented, you will see a vast number of players leaving the game and considering the newbie program, I don't see that easily refilled. Best case the people will adapt, but you will have a permanent shortage of resources. Thought about this and while this will work short term, eventually the harv alts will catch up and/or it will create a market for "harv alt character buying". Would've been nice to see a confirmation of that, since several people have already mentioned this early on in the thread. After a few days, the events aren't even that annoying. The annoying parts are where you get 5-6 in a short timespan, but as I understand it, it's purposely done that way, as "evenly spread events" would still allow training + harving.

Cause the amount of resources needed dictate it. But feel free to harvest me ingredients for 100 refined vegetal mixtures to get an idea. Or double the yield of CF, with NPC buying CF from me at 65, so I can buy flowers from the flower shop. So because the harvesting is the 'engine' of the economy, don't you think that it is even more important to not have it totally AFK? And why should only the harvesters provide raw goods to the economy? Why not the fighters provide some raw goods as well, such as buying raw stuff from the NPC with their gold drops? The fighters do MUCH more work than the harvesters, and there is considerably more risk involved. They actually have to be there every second of it (except for PvPing), and they don't complain. It's funny you put people in classes in a classless game. Any ideas how allrounders would do this or are you expecting people to make classes now? But to answer it, I'm perfectly capable of mixing FE/WE afk at Joules day. If I didn't have MM, I'd also be capable of training afk on fluffies with a quarterstaff in leather, occasionally restoring (mr00wka did this with similar stats to mine when he still played). No, it won't be fast exp, but then again harvesting is 0 exp for most of the hour. Also, I know more fighters that ask me to buy stuff for them, then vice versa. It's easy to make fighters complain though. Just replace gold coin drops with harvestables.

This is not only for farmers, it is to reduce the AFK harvesting in general, which makes no sense. Not everyone harvesting is AFK. In fact, there are quite a few that are still at the keyboard, the game just doesn't have focus, but work / forums / another character has. But let's get some perspective: Before major economy change (around the time of hydro introduction), the major complaint was that there were too many items made in order to level, causing an overflow of items and price pressure, and as a result those being sold below ingredient cost. The fix was to increase the number of resources required to make items, to reuse items as half products and to increase food cost. The expectation was that production would slow down, prices would go up and items like steel/titanium plate and greatswords could be sold at a profit. I think it's safe to say after these years, this expectation was wrong. Instead what really happened is that people adapted and the profit instead went to alchemists and harvesters, because manuers - traumatized by leather helm spamming - used these items meant for profit to level, paying handsomely for bars and ores in order to keep leveling. Again this caused price drops and the top items were yet again sold below or at ingredient cost, losses (in part) compensated by profit from the occasional ueber item, like cutlass of the mage. It also made room for gc farming, but I see this as a side-effect so won't go into it. Fighters adapted too, using titanium plate and col for training, allowing them to move to the next monster sooner. I clearly remember radu being pissed seeing people train with cutlass and full titanium, as he created them for PK or invasions. If anything, the lesson to learn from these years would be that you can't slow down people's desire to level - it is after all the only objective of the game. So maybe rather then doing that, we should look for alternatives. When the idea of schools was first opted, there was talk of putting an NPC there, that would sell ingredients, but you'd still have to bring your own food. It was eventually discarded as "too much free exp", yet I think it's one of the better ideas to get the economy back in shape, rather then trying to slow down production - with some adaption. The main principle of this, is that people would not need to create useful items for levels, yet they create those for profit. The school is used to teach you (gain experience) instead at a price. This price consists of food and critical failures and maybe an admission fee, but if too high, it will go unused. The key to this idea is not to create another leather helm syndrome: use different products at different costs for the levels and restrict those per level. Use for example "1k of useless items needed for a level" for 30's, 10k for 80's, 20k for 90's etc. Example, using leather helm exp and level as base, gc is just an example: Manu 10: NPC teaches you about leather items He wants you to make leather dolls for him, sells the ingredients at 20gc each Leather dolls can only be made there and once done the NPC will buy the ammount you made back at 20gc Manuer buys 10 packages of ingredients, mixes, makes 7, loss: food + 60gc. Gain: 315 exp Manuer will now have to sell items to make up for the loss. This idea will probably require flowershops and ore/mineral buying NPC's to be restricted or removed all together as it would be too easy to make up for coin that way. I realize such a change will take time to implement and tweak, yet I think it's a good time to do this (or other ideas) rather then continuing to try and slow down production.

My bad, just noticed the smiley in my log: I'm out, have fun exploring.

It is in fact the "new economy" that enabled the gold coin farmers in the first place. Basic ingredient prices did go up and so did the quantity needed of them, but at the top of the production chain (the fighters who use the items) the income has been lowered and lowered, creating a need to buy gold coins.

I strongly doubt that. Newbies will lose a lot of income if NPCs won't buy the flowers they are encouraged to pick (lilacs, lupines). I never liked newbies being encouraged to pick flowers and sell to NPC, which is one reason I started this char, as to prove you can do just fine without resorting to this. Making FE and selling to NPC being one prime example. And no, you don't need a CoL to train on gargs.

See molime's post. They don't depend on astro. Read, then re-read, then respond. My bad. Was getting interrupted too much while posting and harving...

See molime's post. They don't depend on astro. +1. Also, part of the attraction of the game is that you can get the resources you need at work and use them when you get home. This is something to consider. If you don't consider this "playing the game", a lot of recipes may need to be toned down in the amount of harvestables they require.

Can this be confirmed, that it's actually the case? It seems implicit, but still would like to know if event astro also applies to these mini events. Not sure whether I like it yet, for pure selfish reasons having to harv a lot of flowers not available on market.

Maybe shouldn't have escalated "reducing variety" into "discouraging bagmixing", cause you were pissed the routine (opposite of variety) you were used to, got nerfed. Here's some other places to make HE: - MM: bring feasts, load up spare emu with mums near school, unload at silver, mix, bring back silver for sto - Trassian yeti mine, same principle but bring mums from storage, nice and quiet. - CC, getting mums from evergreen woods, bonus: opportunity to teach newbies about bagworking using their own bag, rather then yours - prolly one or two I forgot.