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Mage/healer class, reloaded

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Following ideas and suggestions from the previous thread, this is what I have in mind for a Mage class:

 

Penalties:

1. -30% inflicted damage

2. -30% total damage 'prevention' (given by attributes, defense level and armor)

3. -30% a/d exp

 

Bonuses:

1. 50% more magic exp

2. 5 mana regeneration per minute

3. All/most of the spells have a 50% higher damage, heal, or duration. Some spells might have a 200% increase, such as remote heal.

4. A 25% chance to break through an opponent's magic immunity. All the spells that go through do half of the normal damage (so basically, with the bonuses and everything, 75% of what a non mage would do). Both success and failure will deduct 10 action points (and you need to have at least 10 APs to attempt that).

 

Those are just preliminary ideas. If you have any pertinent suggestions or comments, post here.

 

P.S. It would be implemented as a perk, which would be free in terms of PPs, and 25 bucks for a perk removal stone if you decide that this is not good for you (or #reset for free).

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Wow, superb... can we start it now?

 

I would only add to that that mages (and rangers) should be allowed in instances/invances based on their magic level (60 magic or 40 ranging would count as 120 a/d for example, since mage/range exp is so much harder to get).

 

Thank you for paying attention to us, poor non-fighters, non-mixers!

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An aside about Action Point potions, since their need was brought up in 6. I can't give an opinion on this system in general, out of my play style, but those potions are something I'm very familiar with.

 

On a "perfect" day, ings may come in the game to allow for a max of 160 AP pots to be made (4 pears, and 4 grapes max per day if all are found = 4 mixes at 40 per mix). Both pears and grapes will determine the actual max.

 

Normally less because:

 

1- (Expensive) failed mixes - minus 40 pots each failed mix, someone who mixes them would have to comment on this but I do know it's happened.

 

2- Pear cannot be harvested (no matter how many are able to look for it) due to being in an unreachable harvestable or just "on Whitestone/Ida" where it's a crapshoot if found. That's another possible minus 40 pots for each unfound.

 

3- Grape usage in both global quest and 20 needed per person for "something else" makes less available for the pots. Global normally requires several days worth of grapes and is a weekly thing, plus 20 for one person for the other thing is 5 days worth of grapes.

 

(Grape price is particularly susceptible to a drastic hike even still. The "20 for one person" thing recently added caused a price freakout, going from an old 4-5k to eventually settling to a 25-30kgc range. Which could still be considered low for a rare item.)

 

4- My most regular pear buyers thus far don't just mix pots but big books as well, using those pots to mix the books so those AP pots never even see the market. That is currently their main reason for mixing the AP pots at all.

 

As I write this, I can't recall last time AP pots were for sale on market, and only 5 available on any bot.

 

(I'm not as familiar with the state of orange availability so haven't commented on those.)

 

 

Basic summary: Adjustment to availability of AP pots may be necessary if this causes any heavy demand on them. If there is demand, pear/grape cost as rare items will rise (primarily grape cost), AP pot price rising along with it.

 

Grapes in particular, if this becomes an issue I'd place the suggestion that they be removed as a global quest requirement.

 

 

Anyway, no real opinion on the system itself, just some info for should the AP pots become a demand in this. Someone with more know in that can decide if the demand will actually be there or not.

Edited by Burn

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How about adding an ignore level equil to his magic ability. A level 21 magic would be ignored by a goblin the same as someone with a defence of 21. It could be justified by the mages ability to harm and or shield damage.

 

How about a offensive spell with a longer range of attack. They could play backup to a fighter.

 

A mage/healer class person could have limits to the human nexus he can have, limiting the armor worn.

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How about adding an ignore level equil to his magic ability. A level 21 magic would be ignored by a goblin the same as someone with a defence of 21. It could be justified by the mages ability to harm and or shield damage.

What is the logic behind this?

 

How about a offensive spell with a longer range of attack. They could play backup to a fighter.

 

What exact range do you want?

 

A mage/healer class person could have limits to the human nexus he can have, limiting the armor worn.

 

Not sure if it is a good idea, artificer cape won't work then. Also, what happens to those who already have higher nexus?

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iirc there was once a discussion about "aura effect" spells for the phoenix, geared toward pvp. spells which would give a bonus to all players within the radius. was thinking this type of spell might eventually be applied to the mage, as the possibility of class exclusive spell(s) was discussed.

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With respect to armour and defence: if you want a mage to be able to fight with magic, it should get means to defend itself. I agree with the (default) reduction of defence; maybe also reduce a/d reduction and effectiveness by 50%. I'm not sure about armour - that's harder to justify. IMHO it needs a spell in any case to recover the defence (and strengthen the shield spell) by means of a new spell so that a mage can still fight monsters without being bitten to death quickly.

 

This is quite a bit of a tangent, but as you ask:

How about adding an ignore level equil to his magic ability. A level 21 magic would be ignored by a goblin the same as someone with a defence of 21. It could be justified by the mages ability to harm and or shield damage.

What is the logic behind this?

The logic behind this is that a high-level mage is / should be similarily dangerous and fearsome as a high-level melee fighter or high-level ranger. Thus the ignore for monsters could be (IMHO should be) of the order of ((def > ignore_def) || (mag > ingore_mag) || (range > ignore_range))

 

In the same line of - quite drastic - change IMHO would fall to give either magic, ranging or a/d XP depending on the means you killed the beast. It would put these three combat traits on par with eachother so that I don't train a/d when I actually want to train magic or ranging; this change e.g. could also apply to Haidir quests. Such change would give the magic and the ranging combat style a better justification.

 

I'm well-aware that this suggestion is a big one and by no means is quick and easy to implement - but it would definitely help to differenciate builds more while keeping the flexibility in char builds which EL so nicely allows.

 

EDIT: maybe it's an idea to introduce a new intermediate property "evasion" (or however you want to call it) which is equal to reaction. Same with toughness deriving to a new damage resistance. But where either can be doubled or trippled by means of a (new) magic spell (with, say, 3 minutes duration) to enable a mage fight successfully by means of magic. It doesn't mean the above three paragraphs are void ;-)

Edited by Elke

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Will magic protection still offer protection against this perk?

 

If so, I want to suggest that mages get a choice in what damage they want to do (magic, fire, ice, radiation). This can be done with new spells with about the same cost as the current harm.

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(...)

In the same line of - quite drastic - change IMHO would fall to give either magic, ranging or a/d XP depending on the means you killed the beast. It would put these three combat traits on par with eachother so that I don't train a/d when I actually want to train magic or ranging; this change e.g. could also apply to Haidir quests. Such change would give the magic and the ranging combat style a better justification.

(...)

 

When I use ranging or magic to fight a monster I get range or magic exp., but absolutely no a/d experience (from the fight, rewards for quest/dailies is another matter).

So I can train ranging and magic on creatures...

 

As for quest rewards, I can use several skills to kill the creatures in one job, so how do you want to figure that into the reward?

Also, wrt to Haidir's dailies, you know it gives a/d experience as part of the reward. If you don't like the reward, don't take the job (same as someone using a haidir pass when the job's too low level).

 

It might be nice to get some daily quests that give magic or range exp. as a reward. For instance some extra Haidir quests could give a reward in range or magic (depending on the NPC where you hand in the quest, or the creature to kill: hunting flying birds with a sword is a bit strange)

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My opinion is to make difference between fighters and mages with the perk in battles only, so no need exp bonuses/penalties in both att/def and magic skills. The gotten exp is the subject of trainings, so let it be unaffected with the perk. The attack/damage penalty is in balance with stronger magic, I hope defence will not be adjusted in the same time as it also required for any.

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This has been explained before. "Fixed class restrictions" like in other games where you can't change. You can take it, or take a removal stone to remove it at any time. That's not fixed, and you're not restricted from changing it.

Edited by Burn

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The idea is nice but it's makes naked mages way too op'd (think about alts aspect)

Make a perk 'dedicated mage' (or w/e it called) that allows you wear special mage stuffs (robes, staffs, ...) and gives

Penalties:

1. -30% inflicted damage

2. -30% total damage 'prevention' (given by attributes, defense level and armor)

3. -30% a/d exp, also levels

4. more to decide..

Bonuses:

1. 10% more magic exp (they already has good bonus by rationality)

2. 5 mana regeneration per minute

3. half mana usage for spells

4. small chance to keep essences

5. more to decide..

 

Mage stuffs gives you different kinds of bonuses/penalties (alot variety can be done this way), you need magic nexus to wear 'em but they can breaks during spell cast and like any wearable item in-game.

The idea is to make mages actually risk stuffs too, like any fighter/ranger/.. does.

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What is the logic behind this?

 

Let’s assume the reason behind ignore in the game is the monster is able to perceive that the fighter is able to kick the snot out of it. In real life, a (pick a gang) member walks into a room, you leave that person alone. A gunfighter from the old west, walks into a bar, he is left alone. It is the perceived aura of danger keeps that person from being attacked.

 

What exact range do you want?

 

Limits of sight, same as a ranger. To seperate them from a ranger is mana use vs. arrow use.

 

Not sure if it is a good idea, artificer cape won't work then. Also, what happens to those who already have higher nexus?

 

If we don't limit armor, then we will see "mage class" people running around in dragon armor and the biggest swords. For those that already have a higher nexus, if they want to go this way, then they buy a nexus transfer stone. A little pain is good at times. If a mage wants armor, create (or change shield) a armor spell. Depending on magic skill armor bonuses that drop slowly like a defence potion works.

 

As far as artificer, change the nexus, instead of human make it artifical. Artifical, is for making things anyway. Those that already have 10 human, can receive the appropriate amount of nexus transfer stones, one time only. Prior to this update they can get the stones, and then use them after the update.

 

Maybe we are asking for changes that you don't want to make. I know you don't want to copy other games out there. I think when ranging came out, it started the ball rolling in the creation of classes. You couldn't just load up your pick points in the same old way. Some people may want to reset to move in this direction that is good for them and the game. It creates new goals and adds spice. I was getting bored with doing the same old thing. This may require a major overhaul of the game, but in the end, you will improve the game. And sure, some people will get ticked off and quit, but it might bring others back to the game and bring in new people.

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2. 5 mana regeneration per minute

Question on this would the 5 mana regen be on top of fast regen perk so 8 per min or would it over ride and only give the 5 ep and then 3 hp?

 

 

P.S. It would be implemented as a perk, which would be free in terms of PPs, and 25 bucks for a perk removal stone if you decide that this is not good for you (or #reset for free).

so the perk doesn't use pp's would it be some other item used to get it or quest? just wondering how difficult this perk will be to get for a newer player if they are wanting to be a mage class.

 

Also on the armor concern stated above perhaps we would need a diff. nexus to wear mage related items that boost the mages abilities and make it preferable to use for a mage over standard armor? ie: change mage robes to use magic nexus 10 to wear? that way it is possible to wear both armors but expensive in pp's and some pure fighters will find the cost prohibitive were a mage would just use the magic nexus rather then human

 

and finally on the idea above on aura magic effects, if spells are allowed to benefit a group of people around the caster like a group shield or heal, can that be guild based? Some might object to this idea but i think it would help increase the value of a} being in a guild b} having various types of players in a guild for instance/invance/pk purposes instead of just pure fighters. just a thought

 

edit point b showed up as smilie lol

Edited by Elf_Ninja

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What about if taking this perk opens up spells only only available to people with that perk.

 

just wondering how difficult this perk will be to get for a newer player if they are wanting to be a mage class.

 

I started a ranging alt, just for something new to do. I found pick points are easy to come by at lower levels. It was very easy to get the pp for WH and ER perks. Gold coins are another story. You just have to start out with a class in mind.

 

The tutorial NPC could as his first quest be to help someone decide on a class.

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Let’s assume the reason behind ignore in the game is the monster is able to perceive that the fighter is able to kick the snot out of it. In real life, a (pick a gang) member walks into a room, you leave that person alone. A gunfighter from the old west, walks into a bar, he is left alone. It is the perceived aura of danger keeps that person from being attacked.

 

The reason for monsters ignore levels is so the fighters can't level ups (so easily) on monsters way below their level.

 

If we don't limit armor, then we will see "mage class" people running around in dragon armor and the biggest swords.

 

So what if you wear the best fighter gear as a mage? You get a -30% damage/defense 'bonus', so you'd still suck ass compared to a non mage when it comes to melee.

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For those spells that are already over powered a 50% increase would just make that worse. An example would be harm, this spell is already way over powered and should either be drastically reduced or better yet removed from the game. Having spells in the game that do more damage then a dragon does to a n00b is not right, imo. Why not replace this spell and others that are not used for some of the ideas that have been mentioned, heat/radiation spells. I also like the idea of changing nexus so that magic is required, however, I dont think 10 magic nexus is a good idea.

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How about double the range for all magic spells when you have this perk? That would put harm/poison/life drain on par with arrows. You could reduce the damage if the spell's target is not within the normal range.

Edited by nathanstenzel

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pretty pr0 idea, definitely would try and mess around with it to see how it works.

the only suggestion i'd add to it is scale the shield spell on your magic level when you have the perk, certain % more armor from shield spell for every x amount of magic levels.

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Wow, lots of very good ideas but so many that it's getting hard to follow. Most people seem in favor of a change to the mages, so I would say put Entropy's suggestion or something like it on the test server and we will give it a try, otherwise there's no end to the (theoretical) debate.

 

Start with something simple, then we can add to that, try too much and chances are it will never be implemented or it will be a disaster (too many unforeseen effects). Just my opinion...

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Well said, Teotwawki. Seems every suggestion has to be tweaked to death from everyone wanting it to work their own way and to their own advantage. I say lets try it and if it needs tweaking deal with that after we really know for certain what the problem(s) are, i.e, after it has been introduced so we can truly see how it works ingame.

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