Moving of Chimeran spawn locations in Tirnym...

[korrode]

As it stands atm, Tirnym contains the following:

• 3x Mountain Chimerans
  
• 2x Forest Chimerans
  

The 2 FCW's and 1 of the MCW's all spawn very close to each other near the north-east corner of the map and they now constitute the only commonly used FCW or MCW spawn in all of EL.

 

The other 2 MCW's spawn near the south-west and south-east corners of the map, much too far away from each other to be able to train them both and make decent exp, or even keep them at their spawns.

 

The recently reduced respawn time of these chims is a great opportunity to increase the amount of 'useful' training spots without adding many more spawns.

 

Combined with the second part of my suggestion below, i suggest the following spawn additions and location changes to Tirnym:

 

Additional Spawns:

1x Forest Chimeran

 

Spawn location changes:

Place 2x MCW at 147,130

Place 2x FCW at 53,136

Place 1x MCW and 1x FCW at 53,54

 

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Secondly, and in conjunction with the above, i suggest either:

A. Further adjustment to the MCW's respawn time; reducing it to 30 seconds.

** OR **

B. Increasing the gc drop of the MCW; to a maximum of at least 100gc.

 

Reasoning for option A.

The FCW now has a 30 second respawn time (which IMO is perfect for the creature), and the MCW has a 40 second respawn.

 

The real-world outcome of this is that once a person has leveled enough to be able to move from FCW to MCW in their training, all they get for their efforts is less experience per hour and less gc drop per kill (the MCW drops less gc than the FCW).

This seems kind of cruel and unusual lol

 

So to improve the situation, i suggest further reducing the MCW's respawn time to 30 seconds (bringing it in-line with the FCW), so even if trainers have to accept less gc per kill when they goto MCW, they at least will see a bit more exp per hour than when they were on FCW.

 

 

Reasoning for option B.

If Option A is for some reason not desirable, i alternatively suggest that the MCW's maximum gc drop be increased to at least 100gc.

IMO this is a perfectly reasonably figure since MCW is only 10 less a/d than Yeti yet their max gc drop is more than 3 times that amount.

 

Doing this would at least compensate the significant exp loss due to respawn time VS FCW with more profit per kill/used resources.

 

EDIT: I retract the above part of the suggestion due to numerous people deeming it, more or less, "selfish".

 

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It's very common that when an a/d trainer suggests a change to monsters around their own levels, someone decides they are being selfish, irrelevant of if they actually are.

To anyone who thinks this is the case here, consider that i am asking for the removal of the only triple chimeran spawn in the entire game.

 

My suggestion is to provide 3 FCW/MCW spawns that are worthwhile training, as opposed to the 1 we have now... which i think is pretty fair considering that with the low respawn times on Fluffy, Feros and DCW, there is at least 9 worthwhile spawns of each of those creatures.

Edited January 22, 2009 by Korrode

[SenZon]

Very very nice thought out korrode this looks really good, all tho i have a question are M.chims trainable ? I tried a single one and even with high coord + high instinct + high defence lvl i didnt do so well :\ . Or is it they crit to much still?

[korrode]

Very very nice thought out korrode this looks really good, all tho i have a question are M.chims trainable ? I tried a single one and even with high coord + high instinct + high defence lvl i didnt do so well :\ . Or is it they crit to much still?

Yeah they certainly are "trainable", but they'll never be as 'nice' as Fluff or Feros, or even DCW, no matter your stats... but they shouldn't be really

 

They crit a lot... once a person's Reaction and Defense is high enough to be dodging most all non-crits, then the best way (IMO) to make them nicer to train is more Toughness

Edited January 21, 2009 by Korrode

[conavar]

Hmmmmmm

 

I cant argue with the Logic of the idea, but if any changes were going to be made its not the ones I would make.

 

With your suggestions its make 6 chims trainable by 3 people, personally I would rather have 6 Chims trainable by 6 ppl ( yes its less xp per hour, but if you cant get a double spawn then you are not getting any xp anyway )

 

I would:

 

Move the Fchims from the RoT and swap them with the Mchim in GP, This Mchim could then be placed in the NW corner of RoT to make 4 single Mchim spawns.

The Fchim would be seperated in GP to also make 2 single spawns (In a perfect World I would also move WV Fchims to GP and replace them with more Trice spawns)

 

 

It would be nice (but not needed) if the Double Dcw spawns in Mel and Bethel were seperated (with there increased spawn time, more than 1 is not needed imo)

 

 

Side note: Imo increasing Mchim gold drops would only result in players who gold farm Yeti's, moving to Mchim.It would be an easy option for them since they would use hardly any he's etc compared to Yeti.

[korrode]

With your suggestions its make 6 chims trainable by 3 people, personally I would rather have 6 Chims trainable by 6 ppl ( yes its less xp per hour, but if you cant get a double spawn then you are not getting any xp anyway )

 

I would:

 

Move the Fchims from the RoT and swap them with the Mchim in GP, This Mchim could then be placed in the NW corner of RoT to make 4 single Mchim spawns.

The Fchim would be seperated in GP to also make 2 single spawns (In a perfect World I would also move WV Fchims to GP and replace them with more Trice spawns)

Cona surely you know as well as i do that a single MCW or FCW spawn, even with a 30 second respawn, will almost never be used.

 

I recently went out to WVF (post the new respawn times) with a whole bunch of different weapons and meds trying to find a way to earn as much exp on a single FCW spawn as i could on a single DCW, it is impossible.

 

Due to the much higher armor bonus of FCW (and MCW for that matter) VS DCW, you must use a reasonably strong wep and whenever you do a critical-to-damage hit way too much damage is inflicted (and yes, i tested with staves with their crit-dmg negs, still no good).

The only way to make it so they'll be commonly used in single spawns is to reduce their respawn time to be the same as DCW and make their Toughness and Armor exactly the same as DCW (which is what i suggested be done a while ago but Radu didn't like it)... the validity of this is only as debatable as "1+1=2" is debatable.

 

You're suggesting all these single spawns, but look at chim singles spawns now; the 2 MCW singles in Tirnym, the FCW's in WVF... they're basically not used at all, what makes you think they would ever be?

 

 

Side note: Imo increasing Mchim gold drops would only result in players who gold farm Yeti's, moving to Mchim.It would be an easy option for them since they would use hardly any he's etc compared to Yeti.

You're right that this is a concern, we dont want MCW working out better gc than Yeti, and i considered it prior to suggesting the figures i did.

Edited January 21, 2009 by Korrode

[conavar]

Cona surely you know as well as i do that a single MCW or FCW spawn, even with a 30 second respawn, will almost never be used.

 

I recently went out to WVF (post the new respawn times) with a whole bunch of different weapons and meds trying to find a way to earn as much exp on a single FCW spawn as i could on a single DCW, it is impossible.

 

Due to the much higher armor bonus of FCW (and MCW for that matter) VS DCW, you must use a reasonably strong wep and whenever you do a critical-to-damage hit way too much damage is inflicted (and yes, i tested with staves with their crit-dmg negs, still no good).

The only way to make it so they'll be commonly used in single spawns is to reduce their respawn time to be the same as DCW and make their Toughness and Armor exactly the same as DCW (which is what i suggested be done a while ago but Radu didn't like it)... the validity of this is only as debatable as "1+1=2" is debatable.

 

You're suggesting all these single spawns, but look at chim singles spawns now; the 2 MCW singles in Tirnym, the FCW's in WVF... they're basically not used at all, what makes you think they would ever be?

 

You cant get the same xp per hour on a single Dcw that you can on a feros, so why should Fchim/Mchim >>> Dchim be any differant ?

 

The Fchims in WV problem is (well for me anyway)

 

A ) I need to ts to -15 to get more Xp than I do on a Dchim at -15, and tsing that low in Wv brings the problem of the trices (so moving the fchims would help alot)

B ) The map is that large its a pain to pin any single spawn down without spending ages searching.

 

The single Mchim spawns in Rot/GP are great and I use them often, boxing a Mchim gives me more Def xp per hour than Dcw or switching to Tit long/ Tit short gives good att and def xp .

 

 

Imo each mod should offer something differant .... if i want Def xp I go box Fcw/Mcw, if I want even xp I box Dcw, not every thing should be set up to give even xp, the player should have to think what he wants at any given time and change to suit

 

I would 100% agree to double spawns if they came about by adding extra mobs, not just moving them about so less players can train

 

Edit: maybe its because we train under differant time zones, but many a time I have been to RoT and all spawns are taken, even the single Mchim

Edited January 22, 2009 by conavar

[SenZon]

You cant get the same xp per hour on a single Dcw that you can on a feros, so why should Fchim/Mchim >>> Dchim be any differant ?

 

The question is why dont you get more exp on Dcw then on feros , and why not more exp @ Fchim/Mchim. Its only logical you get more exp/h as you lvl not less... now tht right could be the center of the problem no ?

 

idk i could be wrong but thts just my 0.02

[Dushan]

Because not all monsters are made for training

[SenZon]

so after feros we cant train anymore? it seems tht every monster after tht gives less then 200k/h ( only other option is pvp )

im still @ feros i kept my phy low so i can box them very long still. I just want to cash in my PP's and train something around my lvl, not ts -15 and fight lvl 100s things

[conavar]

You cant get the same xp per hour on a single Dcw that you can on a feros, so why should Fchim/Mchim >>> Dchim be any differant ?

 

The question is why dont you get more exp on Dcw then on feros , and why not more exp @ Fchim/Mchim. Its only logical you get more exp/h as you lvl not less... now tht right could be the center of the problem no ?

 

idk i could be wrong but thts just my 0.02

 

And thats more of a "Feros give to much xp" problem rather than chims dont give enough

 

it seems tht every monster after tht gives less then 200k/h

 

200k + and hour is easy on single chims of all types.

 

(but xp per hour is based on people's char builds aswell, so whats good for one player will suck for another, and no Imo they shouldnt be great for all builds)

Edited January 22, 2009 by conavar

[SenZon]

hmm too much? i get 300k/h takes me 40-60 hours per a/d lvl. Not logical to train for 2 years (after 120s) to get my a/d over 150. And once im 140s getting 200k/h how long will it take per lvl then ? And if you think feros is "too much exp" (single training ofc) srry your just dumb :\

[SenZon]

(but xp per hour is based on people's char builds aswell, so whats good for one player will suck for another, and no Imo they shouldnt be great for all builds)

 

this is why i have so many saved pp's im at a low mob tht gives me "alright" exp/h and will keep training them till i have something tht will give me better exp then tht. I will NOT leave a "weak" monster tht gives me 280-300k/h to a monster around my lvl tht will give me 180-240k/h i should get more exp not have a penalty cause i leveled...

Because not all monsters are made for training smile.gif

we are not talking about "all" just some.. and after fluffs/feros and now a LITTLE of Dcws i havnt heard of anything trainable after caps...

 

#edit srry double post :<

Edited January 22, 2009 by SenZon

[conavar]

And if you think feros is "too much exp" (single training ofc) srry your just dumb :\

 

They are to much xp compared to other higher mobs yes, which is why when ppl leave Feros its "omg xp sucks on X mob", the Xp per hour for what they are is over balanced, and Feros are a relatively new mob dont forget compared to others and gave/give to much xp for a mob thats fills the gap between fluff and chims from the off

 

When Feros were introduced they should have given more xp than fluffs but less than DCW, till fill the natural progression gap, but because they give more than there higher counterparts the Xp drops off once you leave them.. hence the problem now

 

so no not being dumb

 

Not logical to train for 2 years (after 120s) to get my a/d over 150

 

Also its not logical to over Xp mobs so you reach a/d 150 in a few months (after 120's) or should that be the case ?

Edited January 22, 2009 by conavar

[korrode]

You cant get the same xp per hour on a single Dcw that you can on a feros, so why should Fchim/Mchim >>> Dchim be any differant ?

With the new re-spawn times, you can get more attack exp per hour on a single DCW than on single Feros. With full p/c the OA exp even is about the same now, no?

 

The Fchims in WV problem is (well for me anyway)

 

A ) I need to ts to -15 to get more Xp than I do on a Dchim at -15, and tsing that low in Wv brings the problem of the trices (so moving the fchims would help alot)

I can train both DCW and FCW @ -15 too, unless we're talking boxing for (almost) pure def exp, DCW, for me at least, is better exp than FCW... you've back-to-back tested an hour of DCW VS an hour of FCW and had more exp from FCW?

 

The single Mchim spawns in Rot/GP are great and I use them often, boxing a Mchim gives me more Def xp per hour than Dcw

Ya MCW is ok def exp if you're going to 'def-train' it, but i doubt anyone will ever do this cause it costs a lot of resources and even a badly setup PvP parntership yields way more exp and way less resource use.

 

I train the 3x chim spawn in Tirnym regularly, i have been for months now, in that entire time i have never ever seen someone using one of the south MCW's for single spawn training.

 

or switching to Tit long/ Tit short gives good att and def xp.

lol Cona, have u actually tried DCW since their re-spawn was reduced? I guarantee you that boxing a single DCW (or if your less than full p/c u made need to use bone and/or stars med) will yield way more att+def exp per hour than Ti long/short'ing MCW does.

 

 

Imo each mod should offer something differant .... if i want Def xp I go box Fcw/Mcw, if I want even xp I box Dcw, not every thing should be set up to give even xp, the player should have to think what he wants at any given time and change to suit

I agree variation is the spice of life, but i think you're claims about the usefulness of MCW and FCW as they stand are greatly exaggerated.

 

As i said, i train in Tirnym heaps on the triple spawn... when it's taken i sometimes wander around AFK-ish killing the 2 MCW's and serping PW's, there was a couple of weeks recently where i was in Tirnym daily for hours, if you occasionally go out and actually stay at a single MCW spawn and box or Ti long/short it, then i highly suspect you're the only person in the game doing it.

 

I would 100% agree to double spawns if they came about by adding extra mobs, not just moving them about so less players can train

More people would be training MCW/FCW with my suggested changes than they are now, watch the situation in Tirnym for a few days and tell me then it's not the case.

 

3 people across 6 chims is better than 1 person on 3 and all other spawns almost completely unused.

[SenZon]

They are to much xp compared to other higher mobs yes, which is why when ppl leave Feros its "omg xp sucks on X mob", the Xp per hour for what they are is over balanced, and Feros are a relatively new mob dont forget compared to others and gave/give to much xp for a mob thats fills the gap between fluff and chims from the off

 

They are "new monster" but dont also forget before them highest lvl "trainable" mobs was fluffs ( i do remember korsakoff [srry for his/her name spelling] serping them for drops. You could be right on one thing that feros are too much exp compared to other mobs , but you cant say that there exp/h is to much (as you trained your own char you should know how long it takes for tht one level)

 

Also its not logical to over Xp mobs so you reach a/d 150 in a few months (after 120's) or should that be the case ?

one thing i do not want its leveling from 120s-150s in few months , but train at a reasonable Growing rate. Not just losing exp/h i get as i switch mobs.

 

Maybe the key is lowering the exp/h ppl get on feros that you may be right about.

the thing tht mostly upsets me is as i switch to stronger monsters is getting less exp, it feels like a penalty because i leveled, that is what im trying to point out here.

[conavar]

Maybe the key is lowering the exp/h ppl get on feros that you may be right about.

 

eeeeek I would never suggest that (that would be unfair for those yet to train Feros)

 

My point was just when they were introduced they gave to much Xp compared to mobs above them

 

@ Korrode

 

I can train both DCW and FCW @ -15 too, unless we're talking boxing for (almost) pure def exp, DCW, for me at least, is better exp than FCW... you've back-to-back tested an hour of DCW VS an hour of FCW and had more exp from FCW?

 

I always talk about boxing (since its 99% how I train), and yes I can get more Oa Xp per hour on Fcw than Dcw, no its not as balanced as Dcw but its also not mostly Def xp either (obviously diff build to yours)

 

lol Cona, have u actually tried DCW since their re-spawn was reduced? I guarantee you that boxing a single DCW (or if your less than full p/c u made need to use bone and/or stars med) will yield way more att+def exp per hour than Ti long/short'ing MCW does.

 

I never said it was better xp, I said it was good xp

 

As i said, i train in Tirnym heaps on the triple spawn... when it's taken i sometimes wander around AFK-ish killing the 2 MCW's and serping PW's, there was a couple of weeks recently where i was in Tirnym daily for hours, if you occasionally go out and actually stay at a single MCW spawn and box or Ti long/short it, then i highly suspect you're the only person in the game doing it.

 

Like I said in previous post, differant time zone training, Ive seen you once in RoT and it would be wrong of me to say because of that.. that you dont train there. Like I have said many a time RoT is full and I have to use GP Mchim.

 

With the new respawn times training the triple spawn in RoT you must at the very least use a Os to even have a chance to keep all 3 , so its primary att xp no ?

[korrode]

I would 100% agree to double spawns if they came about by adding extra mobs, not just moving them about so less players can train

btw, from what you're saying the single spawns in Tirnym do get used, lets say that's the case, so Tirnym 3 training spots, the 2 singles and the triple. my suggestion still keeps Tirnym having 3 training spots, so it's not "moving them about so less players can train".

 

 

Because not all monsters are made for training

Radu has in the past asked why people dont train them and the respawn was recently reduced, plus we have a triple spawn which is pr0 training... so obviously they are meant to be trainable.

Edited January 22, 2009 by Korrode

[Entropy]

The reason why i reduced the spawn time was for people to share the fucking spawns. I don't like people training on 5 monsters at once.

[Cruella]

Gee guys, you have well over 200k exp per hour easy in any case and you are always hungry for more, never have enough. What a ranger should say having like 20k exp per hour max IF very lucky and knowing what to do :/

 

a/d trainers are the most priviledged group in this game (fastest OA gains and game concept mostly revolving around close combat) yet the most demanding and never satisfied lol

 

And yes, I also train a/d but for once I'd like to see some changes that decrease the a/d levelling advantage over other combat related skills (magic and ranging)

[korrode]

The reason why i reduced the spawn time was for people to share the fucking spawns. I don't like people training on 5 monsters at once.

Neither do i, hence my suggestion to remove the triple spawn and just make a few double spawns.

More worthwhile spawns with less monsters rather than less worthwhile spawns with more monsters.

 

 

And yes, I also train a/d but for once I'd like to see some changes that decrease the a/d levelling advantage over other combat related skills (magic and ranging)

Then go make some suggestions for changes, rather than whinging on my thread.

Edited January 22, 2009 by Korrode

[Cruella]

If I follow your way of thinking I should have requested to have a room full of giants that can be shoot safely and they should have been dropping tonnes of arrows to make my ranging training cheap and easy. But since I know the chances of getting that are quite limited I prefer not to even start

 

Edit: small correction

Edited January 22, 2009 by Cruella

[korrode]

If I follow your way of thinking I should have requested to have a room full of giants that can be shoot safely and they should have been dropping tonnes of arrows to make my ranging training cheap and easy. But since I know the chances of getting that are quite limited I prefer not to even start

No, if that was my line of thinking, i'd be asking for heaps of chims all in a small cave dropping 1kgc each time with really low dex/react and crit rates but high a/d.

 

EDIT:

If people are focusing on the MCW drops/respawn part of my suggestion, forget it, it's secondary to the chim loc changes... so the essence of my suggestion is this simple:

 

Change from 1x triple spawn and 2x single spawns, to 3x double spawns.

Edited January 22, 2009 by Korrode

[Cruella]

Not really. Assume you shoot arrow every two seconds, for an hour (which is virtually impossible since you need to restock, even from hyperbag). Calculate Overall Exp gained (roughly 13 exp per shot is what you'll be getting if you set a distance to not to miss). You'll end up with 23.5k OA exp/hr which is 15 times less I'm getting on fluffs.

 

Anyway, I like your idea of changing triple spawn into double, I'd even prefer it it was changed into higher number of single spawns. I did not like the reasoning behind your proposal, namely a statement that a/d exp on existing spawns is too low. It is way too high comparing with any other combat skills.

[korrode]

Anyway, I like your idea of changing triple spawn into double, I'd even prefer it it was changed into higher number of single spawns. I did not like the reasoning behind your proposal, namely a statement that a/d exp on existing spawns is too low. It is way too high comparing with any other combat skills.

That's a fine and undeniably correct point to make Cru, but the simple fact is that if they're all turned into singles, very few people will use them, as a DCW or Feros would be a better choice.

[Khalai]

Anyway, I like your idea of changing triple spawn into double, I'd even prefer it it was changed into higher number of single spawns. I did not like the reasoning behind your proposal, namely a statement that a/d exp on existing spawns is too low. It is way too high comparing with any other combat skills.

That's a fine and undeniably correct point to make Cru, but the simple fact is that if they're all turned into singles, very few people will use them, as a DCW or Feros would be a better choice.

 

Although I am cyclops/armed orc trainer, I do see the point here. Feroses and fluffs need to relieve some stress of players, who should move ahead instead of TSing down and "blocking" spawn to people who are fresh feros/fluffy trainers. I also get the point of making three more balanced spawns instead of one overpowered and two mediocres. So I am in favour of this.

 

I see your point Cruella, but archery is not comparable to close combat. It is supposed to be very hard and expesive to train, which you proves yourself in that XP/hour and gc/hour ratios there.