Debating Contest 1#

[Roman]

Hi welcome to the first proper EL debate. The moot is "Was there point in bringing out the engineering skill". Feel free to state your opionion and point in an apporiate manner. The prize for best Debater is 1000 Fire Essences. So go ahead start agruing!

[Acelon]

This is an interesting question. I do think there was a point to bringing the engineering skill into the game. This game is very innovative in it's ideas, allowing a classless system and the oppurtunity to have no bias when it comes to training skills... there needs to be other ways for people to define themselves. The way people do that are via skills. Some associate themselves as fighters, some as crafters, and some as mages. You will even get some who are crafting summoners, fighting alchemists, potion-making fighters that dabble in manufacturing. Then there are of course those that are all rounders..

 

The more skills that are added to the game, the different types of player types that will arise. I know for a fact, that a player stocked up on ingredients so he could get to the top ranks of engineers, and be considered one of the top engineers.

 

New skills give players new chances, so I think the more skills that are added the better..

 

I think that alone is a good enough reason for the engineering skill.

[Ryokotsusei]

In my opinion, Engineering just needs to be expanded.

As of now, there really aren't that many items to make, and a lot of those don't have a purpose (until the update). Of course it was needed. Many useful items have (and will) come from the skill. Night Visor, the indiactor stones, and after the update, mines and caltrops and such.

 

It's just a matter of if you have the dedication.

[hades]

There is a social reason for the engineering skill some people like to be called engineer

[Stricken]

I really enjoy engineering,

It gives me a chance to make new items that might one day be very interesting, and sicne very few people pursue the skill, It'd hopefully give me a edge up on other people. If landmines / snares do what their name perceives, and if the bows and arrows come out it'll make pk very interesting. I'd surround myself with land mines, and sit ina corner harming / firing arrows @ enemies while their caught by snares, or hurt by caltrops or poisoned from posion caltrops or being blown to bits by a land mine

[Lumino]

In a game that caters to so many types of people--those who want to make as much money as possible, those who want to make as many friends as possible, those who want to fill their inventories with rare items--it is always necessary to create new alleys by which a player may advance his goals, be they monetary, reputation, or skill-related goals.

 

When you really think about it, everything in EL--or any mmo for that matter--comes down to hubs. Players meet at a fluffy spawn and duke it out for access to the critters that lurk there. Players hang around an iron ore and chat about their lives and their characters. Players meet while exploring secret areas and share other secrets advancing their own game knowledge. The number of player-to-player interactions in mmo's is staggering--I couldn't name half of them--and this is the whole purpose of an online game. But the common factor in all of these interactions are the hubs, the centers, if you will: the fluffies, the iron, the secret areas. But also the skills, the items, the guilds, the stores, the NPCs...all of them serve as hubs, as points of overlap in the sphere of influences of all the players in the game.

 

It isn't too difficult to determine that the addition of a skill will create more such hubs; why, the skill itself acts as a hub! Engineering creates a number of more player-to-player interactions for exactly this reason. So what it really comes down to is this: are player-to-player interactions desirable...or not?

 

Clearly, we all log into these Eternal Lands day after day to share the joy of the game with our fellow players, our fellow alchers, fighters, mages--and our fellow engineers--for one simple reason: to appreciate, to assist, to enjoy, to converse, to trade, to fight against, and by a scarce stretch, to interact. If it is the ultimate goal of every player to interact with other players in our cherished game, and we have agreed that hubs increase interactions, then any action the developers can take which will increase the number of hubs without compromising game quality by diluting the game with poorly thought out skills or useless items is not only desirable, but it is a necessity.

 

Thusly, unarguably, undeniably, sonorously, the addition of the Engineering skill was clever, wise, and a fantastic decision by the game developers.

[Usl]

My esteemed colleagues above have all put forward interesting points about the skill. I concur with Acelon in considering skills in general, and engineering in particular, as defining traits of our in-game identity; much in the same way as people will tend to define themselves by their job or craft title. "I am a cook", "I am a priest", "I am an engineer" -- and, more different identities we can create in the game, the better it is. However, skills are not the only way of defining identity in the game: a similar and maybe stronger sense of identity is created by guilds ("I am a Ranger of the North", "I am a Fallen Angel" - the latter being my case); by race ("I am an elf", "I am a draegoni"); pretty soon by clothing or other apparel.

 

Similarly, talking about hubs as seeds of sub-communities with Lumino, the sharing of interest in the same skill is only one of the many possible ways of creating hubs, and one of the weakest if we compare it with being in the same location (local chat and co-location for physical purposes, e.g. team hunting), or in the same guild (#GM chatting), or from the same nation (local-language channels), etc.

 

I would like then to raise a different point, which is specific to skills (as opposed to other identity-defining facets of the game), and then I'll also say a few words specific to engineering -- something which has been missing from the debate so far.

 

The first issue is about competitiveness. Let's face it, very few individuals in the game are so far above common human nature as not to feel the fascination and primeval instinct for competition. Multi-player games are competitive by their very nature, and competition is further enhanced by the various ranking charts we have, no less than by the direct usefulness of the various skills. So, the ability in a skill is actually a way of measuring success in the game. Granted, success can be defined in hugely different ways, and I would be the first to concede that helping new players in Isla Prima, or exploring the whole of Draia, of knowing all the secrets in the game, are all indicators of success -- as valid as being an accomplished crafter or potioner. But these other ways of defining success cannot be directly measured in the game, and that is exactly what makes skills so attractive as a measure of success: they are easily measured and compared, and players can be objectively ranked by them.

When a new skill is introduced from scratch -- as was the case for engineering -- an entirely new and (mostly) level field for competition is opened up. True, players which are good at other skills may have some advantage (for example, high harvesting and EMU helped a lot with starting engineering), but compared with established skills, opening a new one gives an opportunity to all players to show their worth. It might be next to impossible to prove that you are a better summoner than Blodoks, or a better crafter than Ghrae, and so on. But with the opening of engineering, the path to the honours was open again to everybody, at least for a while. Many players have enjoyed this opportunity of showing how intelligent, perseverant, creative they can be. Moreover, the more "separated" a new skill is from the older ones, at least initially, the more level the field is, and the more fierce competition can be, leading to more enjoyment for those who enjoy competition (as I do).

 

The second issue is about the specifics of engineering. From a role-playing point of view, engineering introduced a new and different system of beliefs in the game, mostly in competition with magic. Mages can procure damage with spells such as Harm, Life drain etc. Engineers can procure the same effects with (e.g.) landmines. Mages (and potioners) have True sight, engineers can claim Night visor and Lighmeter. Engineers can build indicator stones, mages (should probably) have an astrology-related spell, maybe for prediction. Mages teleport, engineers (will) build bridges. Mages rely on channelling the forces of Nature through sigils and mana, whose actual functioning is unexplained; engineers rely on concrete things and on their ability to build mechanisms.

The duality which is so introduced makes the world more interesting, provides a different way to skin the cat, as the saying goes, and adds depth to the semantic texture of the game.

 

In conclusion, I concur with other posters in that engineering was a worth and enjoyable addition to the game, although in part for different reasons. As many who attempted it, I was initially dismayed at how difficult engineering was. The more the skill is developed, the more the initial effort pays up, and the bigger the reward for those who initially decided to throw their lot in it, and trusted that the decision of implementing it was a well-thought one.

[Stricken]

wow, way to leave us in the dust

[Guest Annatira]

Great to see several people getting into the spirit of the debate and showing us their skills!

 

Everyone chose to say that engineering had a point, a good point, in being introduced into the game.

 

I select Usl as the winner this week, for his clear and concise speech and for explaining the points he made. Excellent job, Usl! Roman will be awarding you your prize.

 

Hope you all continue to contribute to future debates and thanks.

[Usl]

Great to see several people getting into the spirit of the debate and showing us their skills!

 

Everyone chose to say that engineering had a point, a good point, in being introduced into the game.

 

I select Usl as the winner this week, for his clear and concise speech and for explaining the points he made. Excellent job, Usl! Roman will be awarding you your prize.

 

Hope you all continue to contribute to future debates and thanks.

Thanks Annatira, and thanks to all others debaters who also raised good points!

 

It's a honour to be selected as winner -- and, this inflates my ego as a non-native English speaker enormously...

 

See you in game,

-Usl

[Roman]

Congratulations Usl and to all Debators. Usl meet me ingame to collect your prize of 1000 FEs. For next weeks in debate there is 1000 iron ores up for grabs.