Spell of Physical Immunity

[freeone3000]

We have a sheild spell. We have a magic protection spell. Recently they added a magic immunity spell. Why not a physical immunity one, given the same level and comparable/same essences, but with a different sigil? Of course, you shouldn't be able to cast it if magic immunity is active, and you shouldn't be able to cast magic immunity if physical immunity is active.

 

This probably will require the addition of magic-attacking monsters, or losing the ability to attack while using this spell (in non-PK, hopefully...).

[Kidberg]

Can you explain better just exactly what this spell would do?

[Lorck]

Recently they added a magic immunity spell.

Recently added? There is mag imun since i started playing (well, i am not an oldbie, but this spell already exists for long time).

 

Seems to be nice spell tho, but you could still be attacked by monsters and on pk (specially summons, you could pwn that 8 giants that the evil enemy summoned with easy).

[freeone3000]

Can you explain better just exactly what this spell would do?

You would take NO damage or effects from physical attacks.

 

This would encourage the use of magic. Magic-attacking monsters, or upgrading current monsters with magical attacks, would be important to use this spell... Or you would be unable to attack for its duration, or something of the like.

[masterpiter]

It would mean u can fight strongest monsters ingame w/o using expensive(or any) armors without a risk of breaking them, sorrz but imho its bad idea .

I rather would like some kind of enchanted shield spell( atm this spell gives +3 armor iirc, so unusefull if u train or kill something stronger than desert chim( mc deal ~40dmg , yetis ~50 dmg, ac up to 70, giant for 80+ sometimes even if u wear expensive armors).

So if possible make shield spell depended from magic lvl, just an idea

 

eMPi

[larrystorch]

That's a great idea masterpiter Poison, Life Drain and Harm have been changed to be level dependent, why not Shield. Scaling the increase would be tricky because you wouldn't want it to be too powerful.

 

I used to use Shield all the time until I got about half way through ogres. Would be nice to use it again and get just a bit more protection from it.

 

edit:spelling

Edited April 24, 2007 by larrystorch

[agis29]

It would mean u can fight strongest monsters ingame w/o using expensive(or any) armors without a risk of breaking them, sorrz but imho its bad idea .

I rather would like some kind of enchanted shield spell( atm this spell gives +3 armor iirc, so unusefull if u train or kill something stronger than desert chim( mc deal ~40dmg , yetis ~50 dmg, ac up to 70, giant for 80+ sometimes even if u wear expensive armors).

So if possible make shield spell depended from magic lvl, just an idea

 

eMPi

 

Pr0 idea!!!

[trollson]

A spell granting immunity would be too unbalancing, unless it consumed enriched essences.

 

However, having the shield spell strength based on level makes perfect sense. Any reason why level-based strength should not be the norm?

 

If spells are scaled with level, and if there were more "remote" versions of them, it would make professional mages more valuable to work in supporting front line fighters.

Edited April 24, 2007 by trollson

[Schmurk]

If spells are scaled with level, and if there were more "remote" versions of them, it would make professional mages more valuable to work in supporting front line fighters.

Totally agree with that!

 

About the shield, I'd prefer a higher shield spell that will take more essences and more mana and that will give you a better protection but not letting it be scaled according to your level or it will be too powerful IMO. This can work for offensive spells but not for defensive ones I think...

[Scorpius]

hmmm thats exactly the wrong thing imo.. you should be rewarded if you have higher lvls than others

else it would be kinda nonsense to me.

 

Im for your idea Empi

[trollson]

Spell power vs caster level

There is no reason why this should cause spell to become

"too powerful"

: The game designer is free to choose any function to map magic level to spell power, it doesn't have to be a simple linear function (

P(L)=c+mL

), but can be any curve (though it should not decrease with level, so

P(L)<=P(L+1)

).

 

So you could use a curve which exponentially approaches some upper limit (as level increases, power gets closer to the limit but never reaches it).

 

That said, in common with many RPGs, EL has a geometric progression/exponential experience level table

[1]

(more or less), which constrain levels without imposing a hard limit; so they can be used in linear functions without becoming overpowering.

 

But then again, if you meet a level 100 mage in a bad mood, do you really think you should live to tell the tail?

Ways spells can get more powerful

We've briefly mentioned more remote versions of spells (cf. Heal vs Remote Heal). But there are more ways in which a single spell effect can be enhanced:

• Strength -- which is what has been discussed so far.
  
  
• Duration.
  
  
• Range -- though in EL we are limited to very short ranges (<12m?).
  
  
• Scope -- who is affected by the spell -- self, single target, area (the latter two bring in range).
  
  

This could be done by adding extra sigils to the base spell

'word'

, which in turn increase the (required) level, mana cost, and essence cost; a proto-compiler turning the 0-6 sigil word (plus character context) into a set of spell parameters.

 

[1] Exponential experience tables, with their geometric progression of level gaps, are of course a hang-over from pen'n'paper RPGs; where they factored out the exponential curve to leave a simple number, level, which could be used in in-game equations. Since these equations need not be calculated in't'head anymore, we are freer to use alteratives. I particularly favour arithmetic progressions in CRPGs, since level gaps are not as daunting (just one more xp than last time), and put more constrains in the derived functions.

Edited April 26, 2007 by trollson

[Guy]

You would take NO damage or effects from physical attacks.

 

Unless it only lasts for a very short amount of time (saaaay, ~3-5 combat turns) I think it's a bit strong too.

 

To me magic immunity seems too strong too, it certainly makes a mage-type character a lot less viable for pk.

I'd like to see some sort of shieldbreaker spell, fairly high level and cost but removes (or has a chance to remove) shield, magic protection or magic immunity if present on the target. The target can always re-cast the spell, but it leaves them open for a short period.

[Alia]

Unless it only lasts for a very short amount of time (saaaay, ~3-5 combat turns) I think it's a bit strong too.

 

To me magic immunity seems too strong too, it certainly makes a mage-type character a lot less viable for pk.

I'd like to see some sort of shieldbreaker spell, fairly high level and cost but removes (or has a chance to remove) shield, magic protection or magic immunity if present on the target. The target can always re-cast the spell, but it leaves them open for a short period.

 

IMO "Baldur's Gate" series might be good reference and source of ideas for spells.

There is good combination of defensive/offensive spells, and there are shield-breaker spells.

[Schmurk]

IMO "Baldur's Gate" series might be good reference and source of ideas for spells.

My favorite game

[Fourier]

I think a physical immunity spell is needed to mirror the magic immunity spell. Effectively, imho, the magic immunity spell is way too strong. You cast magic immunity, and your opponent is unable to use magic against you, yet you still take physical damage from him. This means there is no real way to be a powerful wizard in game, relegating spells mostly to utilitarian functions and healing in PK/training. In order to allow the wizard a chance, the wizard needs the ability to be immune from the fighter's strengths, which would put magic immunity back into some form of balance. Remember, MI is expensive and has a relatively short effect. IIRC you cannot restore all of your manna with an SR in the duration of the spell. Placing an equal essence/manna/level spell on the wizard would balance the situation. And yes, you could walk into KF, not get hit, and walk out, for a short time per spell.

Edited April 25, 2007 by Fourier

[kibora]

Any kind of immunity leads to imbalance. Magic protection and Shield based on your magic level should be great. But immunity is too powerfull spell. I think the magic immunity spell should be removed as well.

[masterpiter]

In order to allow the wizard a chance, the wizard needs the ability to be immune from the fighter's strengths, which would put magic immunity back into some form of balance

If u wanna phys immune so badly for pure magic character than make the spell like in the 1st Diablo, something like mana shield, u loose ur mana instead of health when u get the dmg.

 

True/pure mage would have low health and very high mana(high will or/and vitality), so like 400 mana points w/o a com, i saw only 1 such a character ingame, forgot the nick coz it was a long time ago.

And yes, you could walk into KF, not get hit, and walk out, for a short time per spell.

Oh, so u wanna that spell so u can get free mercury on kf and no1 can even touch u, ye?

 

Any kind of immunity leads to imbalance. Magic protection and Shield based on your magic level should be great. But immunity is too powerfull spell. I think the magic immunity spell should be removed as well.

No mag immune=all ppl always will mana drain u= very short fights, and i mean really short.

(few mana drains until ur opponent doesnt have mana, some harm spells, so less than 10 seconds 4 sure unless the weaker person uses extra mana pots all the time, than maybe 15-20 sec max )

And no more gang figths, coz it will be even easier 2 die when u r ganged( u wont be able 2 "answer" to 3 or 4 ppl that mana drain/harm u).

 

eMPi

[ttlanhil]

okay, so there's the suggestion for either an upgraded shield or a scalable shield spell (just as a side note, shield isn't only for fighting or training magic... it also reduces cave-in damage, from what I've seen, a scalable one would be rather cheap for immunity from cave-ins)

another idea would be damage immunity... for a certain amount of health.

after you'd have taken X damage (and it's outside of your armour, so that's before armour modifiers, though after dodge check... the shield spell, on the other hand, could be outside this...), it's gone, and you take damage again as normal.

still a useful spell, but it's a more varied idea than just upping shield... and a variety of options is, IMO, better

[Troger]

The baulders gate is a good game and has many nice spells, but remember that is a cast based game, in that game a true fighter never uses magic, and a true mage can not kill a fighter in close combat... In EL u are free to be what u want to be... there are no so called fighter and so called mages...

 

about the physical immunity, yes it could be like 10 seconds duration, but in this duration u loose health constantly, and u cant restore, and cant cast magic imunity as stated...

or it should cost health points instead of mana...

 

just my thoughts:)

[trollson]

In EL u are free to be what u want to be... there are no so called fighter and so called mages...

I'll just pick you up on this point, since it keeps coming up...

 

EL has no predefined classes, does not mean that people cannot choose to be a pure fighter, or pure mage. If there is no options to specialise or diversify, then characters are all generalists -- which is a single class, not a classless system.

 

The difference between class based systems and non-class systems is when and where choices are made in your character development.

• In a class system you choose at the start, and your future career and development are pretty much determined from the outset.
  
• In a classless system, you continue to make decisions as your character progresses. This means that the game has to continue to offer choices, including taking one path at the exclusion of another.
  

Edited April 27, 2007 by trollson

[Troger]

In EL u are free to be what u want to be... there are no so called fighter and so called mages...

I'll just pick you up on this point, since it keeps coming up...

 

EL has no predefined classes, does not mean that people cannot choose to be a pure fighter, or pure mage. If there is no options to specialise or diversify, then characters are all generalists -- which is a single class, not a classless system.

 

The difference between class based systems and non-class systems is when and where choices are made in your character development.

• In a class system you choose at the start, and your future career and development are pretty much determined from the outset.
  
• In a classless system, you continue to make decisions as your character progresses. This means that the game has to continue to offer choices, including taking one path at the exclusion of another.
  

 

hmmm i have told the same as u did! and yes u cant be a great fighter if u are a pure mage in this game(ex: restoration)

[Garnoo]

So if possible make shield spell depended from magic lvl, just an idea

 

Great idea

[nathanstenzel]

If you wanted immunity to physical damage.....the only way it would not unbalance the game is if you could not do damage either. Perhaps not even be able to pick things up.

AD&D has a spell called gasious (spelling?) form. Someone has suggested a ghostly form in the past. I think the ghostly form (which would have the same effect as physical immunity + can't damage + can't pick things up or drop things) was denied as well.

[Llywar]

If you wanted immunity to physical damage.....the only way it would not unbalance the game is if you could not do damage either. Perhaps not even be able to pick things up.

 

How is that? You'd still be susceptible to magical damage. It really seems no different than being immune to magic. Granted, I think that the better approach is to have immunity to neither, and instead have spells that provide protection against magic but not immunity - analogous to shield.

 

Right now a mage with level 100 magic and an A/D of 30/30 would probably lose to a fighter with level 30 magic and an A/D of 40/40. A small investment in A/D outweights a HUGE investment in magic. While A/D is probably more relevant to combat than magic I'm not sure it should be THAT unbalanced.

 

Basically, the game is unbalanced already - the only thing that making magic more powerful would do is give people who invested in magic a better chance in combat compared to those who've dumped all their training into combat. That does change the balance, but the impact is probably pretty low unless you're on the top-20 list.

 

I don't have a horse in this race - with the time I spend on EL I won't be doing much PK ever, but I would like to see magic useful for more than healing and teleporting...

[masterpiter]

Right now a mage with level 100 magic and an A/D of 30/30 would probably lose to a fighter with level 30 magic and an A/D of 40/40. A small investment in A/D outweights a HUGE investment in magic. While A/D is probably more relevant to combat than magic I'm not sure it should be THAT unbalanced.

Absolutely not true lol, i see u have no experinece in pk at all, just make 38a/d character for dp arena, neg it out and check if u can kill ppl that have lower strenght but magic lvl 49;p, if i had 30a/d character and magic 49+ u would loose 4 sure.

 

I don't have a horse in this race - with the time I spend on EL I won't be doing much PK ever, but I would like to see magic useful for more than healing and teleporting...

Ahh, so u lack in basic knowledge about PK aspect of the game, why u make false assumptions? Play game more, if u dont like to pk than dont pk, but why suggest something about pking?

 

Side note:

I remember Ent saying that magic skill is not finished yet.

So devs probably working on some visualisation of spells that could give us some ranged wide area magic spells( for example something like meteor storm that deals dmg even if opponents have mag immune and it works for 10 seconds in a square 12x12- of coz it would cost a lot of mana+ very high mag lvl would be needed for it).

 

eMPi