Harvester medallion

[Cycloonx]

Well the medallion is a week ingame now, I would like to suggest 2 'small' changes for it:

1. Make the breaking rate lower
   As everyone could see, the breaking rates are too high considering the price and the effect you can get when wearing this medallion.
   Almost no one is using it atm (I only once saw someone getting 10x blessing). I used it myself and it broke after I had 2 bags with gold (total ~150gc) and 2 blessings.
    
   
2. Keep the same breaking rate
   Keep the same breaking rate like it is now but get rid of the harvest hour, so even when you harvested 120 items you would still get exp.
   Don't say this will be too strong, considering the price and breaking rates I think this would be quite balanced and crafters would sell atleast some of those medallions
   

I hope I didn't make this post to early, otherwise someone can just delete

Edited January 19, 2007 by Cycloonx

[Zafyra]

About no.2:

 

Do you mean the harvesting limit for everyone or for eveyone with a medallion? If it was implemented for everyone with a medallion it would be even more unfair as rich harvesters would be hitting 5-6 harv levels per session and that's not always a good thing

[shamara]

Is it possible break rate is related to harvest level? I have high harvest and broke 3 with only blessing 180gc on last breakage. Have not tested further because too expensive.

[Cycloonx]

I harvested a lot of things with it, flowers, ores, minerals, high level, low level. Finally it broke on silver ore after I had my 2nd blessing.

[LadyReni]

I bought one to test it ... got 300 gc , no blessing

and *poof* no med

[Ermabwed]

About no.2:

 

Do you mean the harvesting limit for everyone or for eveyone with a medallion? If it was implemented for everyone with a medallion it would be even more unfair as rich harvesters would be hitting 5-6 harv levels per session and that's not always a good thing

I don't know what you are talking about, an estimate tells me I would need about 25 hours of constant harvesting experience (at wormwood, because I remember the numbers) for one harvesting level Taking the exponential growth into consideration I'd need probably closer to 200 hours of constant harvesting experience than to 150 hours for 5-6 levels, now show me the player who has played 8 days without a break

 

Got to say I agree with #1 as was already suggested in the first thread about the medallions.

[Cycloonx]

Yes removing the seridium could be a good idea too and keep the same breaking rate. But then seridium would lose his value, and that sucks for people who read the books...

[sithicus]

How about a different suggestion:

 

make harvester amulet increase the chance for special stones by a significant amount and have its breakage rate adjusted to the point where a harvester would, in the long run, break even.

 

The harvester medallion would then be chosen by people who want to find stones and in doing so, the players can influence the amount of stones found, even if it comes at a significant price (amulet breakage).

[Blodoks]

How about a different suggestion:

 

make harvester amulet increase the chance for special stones by a significant amount...

 

I don't agree, because this can to cause low prices about several items.

[RallosZek]

5 blessings, 70gc, rough estimate of 4 saved picks and record holder of most harvests with a harv med, according to seller.

The blessings totalled to 26k exp (comparable to 2 fluffies, 350 SRs, 310HE, etc etc).

 

So, at this rate, the harvester med is worth about 500gc.

 

Breakdown of events while worn:

Gold coins........: 2

Blessing..........: 5

Mother Nature.....: 6

Bee sting.........: 2

Pickaxe...........: 0

Cavern Wall.......: 1

Radon pouch.......: 2

Overloaded........: 16

Telenexus.........: 4

Enrichment stone..: 1

Binding Stone.....: 0

Rostogol Stone....: 0

No reason given...: 22

[sithicus]

How about a different suggestion:

 

make harvester amulet increase the chance for special stones by a significant amount...

 

I don't agree, because this can to cause low prices about several items.

 

This is why i also added the sentence that breakage and special stone events should be tuned to each other to break even. If the breakage would stay the same and special stone events would be tenfolded by the amulet, I doubt that even then, the player would break even. Stones would remain expensive because it costs a lot to mine with the amulet. The seridium bar makes the amulet cost at its lowest minimum 5k if a very high level alchemist and crafter worked on it.

[kulysoft]

Cycloonx, then you might need some patience till next server update and you'l have some (nice or not) surprises

[RallosZek]

I've run a perl script on my logs, catches all events for given character name from when timestamps were added to logs (~may 2006?):

 

Breakdown of events for RallosZek:
Gold coins........: 1047 (12.96%)
Blessing..........: 427 ( 5.28%)
Mother Nature.....: 1768 (21.88%)
Bee sting.........: 542 ( 6.71%)
Pickaxe...........: 989 (12.24%)
Cavern Wall.......: 845 (10.46%)
Radon pouch.......: 829 (10.26%)
Telenexus.........: 1554 (19.23%)
Enrichment stone..: 19 ( 0.24%)
Binding Stone.....: 45 ( 0.56%)
Rostogol Stone....: 15 ( 0.19%)
------------------------------ +
Total.............: 8080

Since this is quite a large sample to work with, I consider the percentages to be reasonably accurate, testing on other (more lowlevel chars have similar results).

 

Maybe these help in adjusting the break rate.

 

It also gave me the idea, to make the med break 100% on bee stings and cavern walls that do over 20 damage, but nothing else. This would on one hand stimulate flower market (slightly), would make the med worthwhile for those who can afford it and would stimulate harvesters that harvest minerals and ores to wear more armor, so that they don't get hit for 20+.

 

If anyone feels like comparing, let me know.

 

[edit]line it up[/edit]

Edited January 19, 2007 by RallosZek

[CelticLady]

I've run a perl script on my logs, catches all events for given character name from when timestamps were added to logs (~may 2006?):

 

Breakdown of events for RallosZek:
Gold coins........: 1047 (12.96%)
Blessing..........: 427 ( 5.28%)
Mother Nature.....: 1768 (21.88%)
Bee sting.........: 542 ( 6.71%)
Pickaxe...........: 989 (12.24%)
Cavern Wall.......: 845 (10.46%)
Radon pouch.......: 829 (10.26%)
Telenexus.........: 1554 (19.23%)
Enrichment stone..: 19 ( 0.24%)
Binding Stone.....: 45 ( 0.56%)
Rostogol Stone....: 15 ( 0.19%)
------------------------------ +
Total.............: 8080

Since this is quite a large sample to work with, I consider the percentages to be reasonably accurate, testing on other (more lowlevel chars have similar results).

 

Maybe these help in adjusting the break rate.

 

It also gave me the idea, to make the med break 100% on bee stings and cavern walls that do over 20 damage, but nothing else. This would on one hand stimulate flower market (slightly), would make the med worthwhile for those who can afford it and would stimulate harvesters that harvest minerals and ores to wear more armor, so that they don't get hit for 20+.

 

If anyone feels like comparing, let me know.

 

[edit]line it up[/edit]

 

My suggestion is somewhat similar to what RallosZek offered above. What about if the med only had a chance to break on events that did damage to your character? Mine broke from an xp blessing (Ironically another player had just asked if I had tried using the med. I said I was wearing one and then bang!, xp blessing and it broke Glad I got a screenie of that one). Makes a bit more sense to me for it to break from some kind of trauma to your char instead of a blessing, telenex or similar. Even then, the chance to break may still need to be lowered on those events because of the cost to purchase the medallion.

 

Just a possibility I have been pondering on. All in all, I really like the idea behind this medallion.

[LabRat]

My harvesting medallion (1 of 10) just broke..

 

 

They really break when you hit a tp nexus? Where's the logic in that one?!

Edited January 19, 2007 by LabRat

[Entropy]

5 blessings, 70gc, rough estimate of 4 saved picks and record holder of most harvests with a harv med, according to seller.

The blessings totalled to 26k exp (comparable to 2 fluffies, 350 SRs, 310HE, etc etc).

 

You get 13K experience per fluffy??? WTH are you doing? Using remote heal on it all the time?

 

Anyway, I consider that 26K of harvesting experience per medallion is a LOT, because harvesting is the hardest skill to get experience from.

 

@LabRat

Your medallion broke because of the magic forces that caused the teleport nexus (they removed the 'mojo' from it)

[bkc56]

Anyway, I consider that 26K of harvesting experience per medallion is a LOT, because harvesting is the hardest skill to get experience from.

 

Yes, that plus some gold would be nice. The problem is that the above is not a typical case. The typical case seems to be one or zero blessing and little or no gold based on the feedback I've been hearing. I suspect the average case it a bit better (you tend to hear about the extremes from people).

 

But the bottom line is still: the harvesting medallion must pay for itself over it's average lifetime (including some value applied to the bonus experience). If it continues to be a net-loss item then it will be used less and less.

 

And I still feel the best solution is to reduce the break-rate (rather than the cost) to something around the same as a Rostogol stone (or a bit less).

 

Currently any medallions I make (or receive in payment for mixing for others) go straight into storage. If the break rate is reduced to a point that they might be break-even or net-positive then I can start using them and collecting statistics. But I've heard to many stories of medallions that break in the first few harvests to want to risk a 5K +/- value just yet.

[Entropy]

I think that before I can adjust the breaking rate (now it is 5% for each harvesting event), I need to know the gc value of each harvest exp point.

So, how much is worth 1 exp point of harvesting? Of course, this is a very subjective thing, but I just wonder.

[Ermabwed]

Perhaps I should add that I had a medallion break without any event whatsoever connected to it breaking except the breaking itself...

I guess the force is with me then

[Entropy]

Perhaps I should add that I had a medallion break without any event whatsoever connected to it breaking except the breaking itself...

I guess the force is with me then

 

That can happen too, but it is pretty rare.

[LadyReni]

You get 13K experience per fluffy??? WTH are you doing? Using remote heal on it all the time?

 

fleeing is your answer

[The_Piper]

Two ways to change/fix the harvesters medallion IMO.

 

1. Lower the breaking rate, mine stayed for like 18 hours real time (6 hours in game maybe) and paying like 8k gc for that is waaaay too much (or whatever the actual market price is). Or..

 

2. Change the formula to make it. If it would cost like 250gc per med, i am willing to buy one every day. Maybe, not 1 seridium bar is needed, but only one seridium ore or such.

 

Where i prefer lowering the price, that could be a very good business for crafters, when ppl really use the harvesters med

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

Piper

Edited January 19, 2007 by The_Piper

[Ghrae]

I think that before I can adjust the breaking rate (now it is 5% for each harvesting event), I need to know the gc value of each harvest exp point.

So, how much is worth 1 exp point of harvesting? Of course, this is a very subjective thing, but I just wonder.

 

Interesting question...

 

I would think somewhere around 1gc per xp point makes sense.

[Cycloonx]

The thing is even with only 5% breaking rate, the chance you get a blessing or a bag of gold is even smaller. So the chance you actually benefit from it is very very low.

 

@Ghrae 1exp per 1 gc is not a good rate imo. Otherwise my 2 blessing of 6k would have payed my medallion... I say 12k exp isn't worth 12kgc!

 

Edit: Let's say 5-10 exp = 1gc

Edited January 19, 2007 by Cycloonx

[CelticLady]

I think that before I can adjust the breaking rate (now it is 5% for each harvesting event), I need to know the gc value of each harvest exp point.

So, how much is worth 1 exp point of harvesting? Of course, this is a very subjective thing, but I just wonder.

 

Interesting question...

 

I would think somewhere around 1gc per xp point makes sense.

 

My last couple manu levels were mostly done with leather helms in the manu school. I basically bought that xp since all the gc invested was converted to xp with no item produced.

 

Cost per helm including feasting potions is around 24gc, I get 122 xp per helm. That's roughly 5 xp per gc. (If I did the math right).

 

I got my harv med in a sort of trade deal and the value ended up being about 10kgc. I received 2 xp blessings and 3 gc amouts. If I recall correctly, those came to a total of ~6k xp and ~370gc.