Rule 5 alterations

[RallosZek]

Guild storages will be considered as bots, even if they are not run by a program. They must be declared and registered on the official list. They will follow all ingame rules AND all bot rules.

 

Does this include the stationary part, because that kinda defeats the purpose of a guild storage.

[Roja]

you would move the guild storage as you move your bot-only when needed for the purposes declared of the bot.

[Learner]

Guild storage must remain stationary, otherwise that is an excuse for muling!

[trollson]

Out of curiosity, lets compare the new "Guild storages will be considered as bots" rule with the Eternal Land's Bot Rules. Assuming that "guild storage" are characters created with the intent that their storage space is communal guild property, and with their password shared between (a subset of) the guild:

1. "All bots must be declared" -- OK, character's serving as guild storage are now treated as bots.
   
2. "Bots that only talk are OK" -- Not relevant here.
   
3. "The only bots that are allowed to buy and sell now are paid bots" -- Interesting. The functioning of a guild storage character necessitates storage trades with other characters (usually guild members). What distinguishes this function from commerical trades?
   
4. "Trade bots cannot be in range of any storage" [1] -- OK, guild storage characters cannot be trade bots since they must be in range of storage in order to be of any use.
   
5. Muling -- OK, guild storage bots shouldn't be moving around as Learner says, so they are not muling. They may need to move back into range of storage if knocked outside on login.
   
6. Not in range of harvestable resources -- OK, but this make make some storage sites unsuitable for guild storage characters.
   
7. Not on Isle Prima -- OK, no storage site there anyway.
   
8. No levelling -- OK.
   
9. "Commerce bots have to be stationary" [1] -- Well guild storage characters cannot be commerce bots (trade bots, rule #3), but they should have no need to move in normal operation.
   
10. Official channel use -- OK, if a guild storage character talks it would be on GM anyway.
    
11. Fighting guard bots -- OK, shouldn't be relevant here.
    

Leaving the following questions:

• What distinguishes a non-commerical trade from a commercial trade?
  
• Can a guild storage character move back in range of storage, if login bumps them outside?
  
• What distinguishes a shared character from a guild storage character?
  
• Can a guild storage character (occasionally) relocate to another storage site? (cf. trade bots visiting storage)
  
• Now that guild storage characters are "bot-class", can you trade with them on the same IP address? (cf. trading with a bot you are also hosting)
  

Life would be simpler if there was a recognised guild storage...

 

[1] The terms "trade bot" and "commerce bot" are used but not defined in the bot rules. These roles need to be explicitly defined, even if obvious, to avoid ambiguity.

[Derin]

Out of curiosity, lets compare the new "Guild storages will be considered as bots" rule with the Eternal Land's Bot Rules. Assuming that "guild storage" are characters created with the intent that their storage space is communal guild property, and with their password shared between (a subset of) the guild:

1. "All bots must be declared" -- OK, character's serving as guild storage are now treated as bots.
   
2. "Bots that only talk are OK" -- Not relevant here.
   
3. "The only bots that are allowed to buy and sell now are paid bots" -- Interesting. The functioning of a guild storage character necessitates storage trades with other characters (usually guild members). What distinguishes this function from commerical trades?
   
4. "Trade bots cannot be in range of any storage" [1] -- OK, guild storage characters cannot be trade bots since they must be in range of storage in order to be of any use.
   
5. Muling -- OK, guild storage bots shouldn't be moving around as Learner says, so they are not muling. They may need to move back into range of storage if knocked outside on login.
   
6. Not in range of harvestable resources -- OK, but this make make some storage sites unsuitable for guild storage characters.
   
7. Not on Isle Prima -- OK, no storage site there anyway.
   
8. No levelling -- OK.
   
9. "Commerce bots have to be stationary" [1] -- Well guild storage characters cannot be commerce bots (trade bots, rule #3), but they should have no need to move in normal operation.
   
10. Official channel use -- OK, if a guild storage character talks it would be on GM anyway.
    
11. Fighting guard bots -- OK, shouldn't be relevant here.
    

Leaving the following questions:

• What distinguishes a non-commerical trade from a commercial trade?
  
• Can a guild storage character move back in range of storage, if login bumps them outside?
  
• What distinguishes a shared character from a guild storage character?
  
• Can a guild storage character (occasionally) relocate to another storage site? (cf. trade bots visiting storage)
  
• Now that guild storage characters are "bot-class", can you trade with them on the same IP address? (cf. trading with a bot you are also hosting)
  

Life would be simpler if there was a recognised guild storage...

 

[1] The terms "trade bot" and "commerce bot" are used but not defined in the bot rules. These roles need to be explicitly defined, even if obvious, to avoid ambiguity.

 

Clarification:

Also I would like you all to make note of the part relating to guild storages. We will shortly release the information about how and where to register them. In the meantime, please read the game rules and the bot rules to make sure your guild storages are operating within those parameters before you sign them up. If they do not and you do not register them, they will fall into the category of an alternate character and you and the alt will be subject to illegal multiplaying punishments.

This will also include answers to your questions.

[Entropy]

Guild storages will be considered as bots, even if they are not run by a program. They must be declared and registered on the official list. They will follow all ingame rules AND all bot rules.

 

Does this include the stationary part, because that kinda defeats the purpose of a guild storage.

 

I think someone totally missunderstood the idea of a guild storage.

The idea is not to have a fucking MULE, which is illegal no matter how you put it. The idea is to have a character where some items can be shared by the guild members. Sort of a silo.

[RallosZek]

It's not about muleing. My ideal guildstorage would be oa5 with icd and mm.

 

Can one move it from storage to storage, so that whereever the guildproject is, haulers can bring products. This eliminates the need for administration by the multiple haulers.

[Entropy]

Hauling, when done in this context, is muling.

[RallosZek]

To spell it out:

Project is in Sedicolis, move guild storage char to Shild in PV. What's an oa5 with 9 will and 2 perks gonna mule? Or is bringing the character closer to the project considered such a major advantage?

 

I agree it is an advantage, but it doesn't affect a solo player at all, since this is only and advantage to a large group effort and as I understand it, the game spirit is focusing more on cooperation.

 

If it is hard/impossible to enforce, I can understand that.

Edited September 28, 2006 by RallosZek

[Happy_G]

i think he means the guild members r hauling the stuff to the storage that the "guild storage bot" is at. the only thing the character declared as the guild storage bot would do is walk from one storage to another. doing NO trading along the way, stoping for nothing, and getting from storage a to storage b w/o gaining any exp whatso ever. in this sence the guild storage character would not be muling, the guild members would still have to go to the storage, just instead of putting in their storage they would give it to the guild storage character.

[Roja]

what is the point of the guild storage walking back and forth between storages? The players can just do that!

[Happy_G]

that was the question, do we have to have a set storage for them to be at or can they travel from storage to storage.

[Happy_G]

Guild storage must remain stationary, otherwise that is an excuse for muling!

 

ok, i missed this one my first read through. we must chose a storage for them to be at and keep them there. but that brings up another question. bot rules state that they must be out of range of storage, does that still apply to a "Storage" bot since that is their purpose.

[chaoogie]

what is the point of the guild storage walking back and forth between storages? The players can just do that!

 

..the :POINT: of having a guild storage that can walk between storages is basically if one person decideds to hold all the items for the Guild Project and something happens they die/el wont work/they get banned. The ENTIRE guild is ..fawked..for lack of a better word. thats why most guilds you a guild storage chara so that several key people can have access and give out all that was harvested by the guild members and given to the chara. sometimes a guildmember is busy making potions in mm and they will log out soon sooo you have to take the guild storage chara to mm when its usually in nc or ws etc..

[Roja]

sounds like a mule to me chaoogie.

[Mar(c)]

It looks like the question is if the storage characters can move between storages, so they can be accessed at different storages. (Just like players can access their own storage at each storage NPC.)

[chaoogie]

what is the point of the guild storage walking back and forth between storages? The players can just do that!

welll you asked what the point was... and thats the point if all the items/ore/minerals/etc are given to one person and something happens... i mean im sure something similar has happened to all of us at work you give everything to one person so it gets sorted out (paperwork/meeting schedules..etc) and they go poof and you and your partners/peers are shit out of luck. ... i was just merely trying to provide an answer for your question

 

 

maybe a small suggestion to eliminate possible multiplaying incidents and almost whole guild bans..(2 so far afaik) is to have the option at storage Open storage, Open Private Storage, Help... so that people that mix ess/bars/items for people can keep the ingreds they are givin in seperate type of storage.. this way guild projects can continue and not have to involve a storage chara that could end up in bad things..

and yes i realize that people can just "read" so they know what to do and what not to do, even this update (which i thank you for btw cause it really has helped alot of people im sure) of rule 5 still has grey areas. i just hope that when you guys have the time and the energy that all the rules will be revised and updated and help all the newbies and oldies that still dont get it fully so we dont step in the danger zone via rule breaking.

Edited September 28, 2006 by chaoogie

[RallosZek]

There's no muleing advantage to be gained here.

 

If guild storages are to be stationary, then several people put stuff in their seperate closest storage and then trade with the guild storage afterwards at whatever location it is then.

 

The advantage gained here, is that the people are not putting it in their seperate storages, but directly into the guild storage, so that they do not have to keep track of it and half-products/ingreds are immediately available to others in a multi stage project (FE's in sedi, steel bars in Zirakgunda as a simple example).

 

It's not an emu/time advantage, but lightens a bit of the burdon of coordination and administration in already big group efforts. And as Chaoogie said, project success/progress doesn't depend on one (a few) people, where failing connections, rl issues etc can interfere.

Edited September 28, 2006 by RallosZek

[BloodSucker]

So, if we follow these rules:

 

1. Guild-bot is declared

2. Guild bot remains stationary (i.e. at one, declared storage)

3. As the bot remains stationary, there's no muling.

4. Bot isn't in a range of any harvestable item (i.e. he is sitting in closed storage).

5. Bot speaks only on gm (no channel rules needed)

6. Bot skills are constant.

 

we can have free and legal guild bot registered?

Edited September 28, 2006 by BloodSucker

[Pyewacket]

If the players are all moving back to a storage anyway to haul their st00f on their primary chars, surely its no big deal once all the "muling" has been finished for them to go to teh storage teh IMMOBILE guild storage char IS located at?

 

That way you get multiple guild access as per chaoogies point PLUS have a guild storage that is fixed.

 

And all for a quick tp to teh correct storage map by teh player chars involved. Does that work?

 

Cooperation, coordination and rule adherence.

Edited September 29, 2006 by Pyewacket

[Joshyboy]

Look i dont know what the problem is, if you harvest some iron or stuff for your guild take it to your storage, when your finished you can take it to your guild storage bot then it dosnt have to move, if another guildies need the iron he goes to the bot not the other way around

[Gunslingers]

Would it be that difficult to implement a guild storage system?

 

If a guild registered with a npc storage char (for an in-game price) for the use of a guild storage, the guild tag would be registered with the npc and anyone with that guild tag gets the extra "guild storage" option in the npc storage window, which acts like a normal storage, except the contents are viewable by anyone with the guild tag. And it'd be beneficial to make it so you need a rank above 6 before you can withdraw items (to stop scamming, looting etc.) - any guild that cant afford to register for this system might be tempted to use the current system yes, so dont make it too expensive, and if anyone is caught using the current system they could be given x amount of days to come up with the money to register a guild storage (after the deadline the guild storage char is banned regardless).

 

I expect it is 'not possible at this time' due to programming reasons, but at least consider something like it. Most games offer some kind of guild storage. If you want to control the situation implement something you can control instead or creating rules that are more flexible than a credit card that can be mis-interpreted and misunderstood quite easily.

[Roja]

So, if we follow these rules:

 

1. Guild-bot is declared

2. Guild bot remains stationary (i.e. at one, declared storage)

3. As the bot remains stationary, there's no muling.

4. Bot isn't in a range of any harvestable item (i.e. he is sitting in closed storage).

5. Bot speaks only on gm (no channel rules needed)

6. Bot skills are constant.

 

we can have free and legal guild bot registered?

 

The guildstorage bots aren't free, they cost $20/year too now.

 

 

Look i dont know what the problem is, if you harvest some iron or stuff for your guild take it to your storage, when your finished you can take it to your guild storage bot then it dosnt have to move, if another guildies need the iron he goes to the bot not the other way around

 

Exactly. You go TO your bot. The bot doesn't come to you! If it does, then it's a mule!

[Happy_G]

 

Look i dont know what the problem is, if you harvest some iron or stuff for your guild take it to your storage, when your finished you can take it to your guild storage bot then it dosnt have to move, if another guildies need the iron he goes to the bot not the other way around

 

Exactly. You go TO your bot. The bot doesn't come to you! If it does, then it's a mule!

 

ok, makes perfect sence, would u b allowed to change the location of your guild storage character, say once a month, kinda like trade bots can go to storage 2 times a week. or would that still not be allowed

[Ghrae]

Would it be that difficult to implement a guild storage system?

 

I would guess that it WOULD be difficult. Over time I've heard suggestions on various guild systems and everyone wants something different. Including such features as limited ability to add to storage or limited ability to remove from storage.

 

The only easy solution would be a guild storage where everyone in the guild could both add and remove... and as soon as some new guildie removed everything from the guild storage, people would complain and want the game to take action.