Fixing some of the economy

[Entropy]

I want to start a small round of tweaking and adjusting items prices and possibly some formulas as well, in order to make the economy more interesting.

So for the next 2 weeks or so, there will be no new features in the game, but I'll focus on this particular task.

 

So please post suggestions on what should change in order to improve the game.

We are talking only about price changes, formulas changes, and exp changes (for produced items and summoning).

 

So, let me know what you think, this will be some sort of debate, and then there will be some poll related to the changes, and I'll make some decisions according to those polls, common sense, and other factors.

[Cycloonx]

First thing that comes in my mind:

 

C2 rings that uses a lot of energy/magic essences should be dropped a little. Let them use 7 or 8 energy/magic essences, but not ~15 or more or let them give more exp, since it's much better to make the easy diss rings.

[Guest ronab]

Empty Glass vials

 

I realize this is a small thing but I think it should be adjusted.

 

Right now most people buy & drink mana potions to get their empty vials because that's cheaper than going to Harvey and having him make them. I'd adjust Harvey's price a bit.

 

Cheers.

Edited April 24, 2006 by ronab

[Hazor]

Empty Glass vials

 

I realize this is a small thing but I think it should be adjusted.

 

Right now most people buy & drink mana potions to get their empty vials because that's cheaper than going to Harvey and having him make them. I'd adjust Harvey's price a bit.

 

Cheers.

Potion makers already lost profits with the cooldown, making the cost of making them higher wouldn't accomplish anything good, from my perspective..

[Kougria]

First thing that comes in my mind:

 

C2 rings that uses a lot of energy/magic essences should be dropped a little. Let them use 7 or 8 energy/magic essences, but not ~15 or more or let them give more exp, since it's much better to make the easy diss rings.

 

I agree with this! The rings dont give enough xp and arent worth enough for the amount of ess they take, either change the xp, the price, or make them use less ess.

 

- Kougria

[The_Piper]

One idea i got today about formulas is this:

 

Change the formulas of making swords, that making higher leveled swords requires a lower leveled sword.

 

Like, to make titanium long sword you would need:

 

8 ti bars, 1 steel long sword, 6 fire essences, 1 EFE

 

Why that? Manufacturers can use the steel long swords they made earlier for training and wont flood market with them. Or, if they run out of steel longs and are too lazy to make new ones, will buy them from other players who get them as a monster drop.

 

This idea can be used for other skills too. Like making higher essences, you need some lower ones. (water essences and FE would make sense to be used). Roleplaying: You cook the ingrediences in WATER on a FIRE. The same with potions.

 

Magic, the same. Why only use essences? Lets use some potions or other items for spells. For example, shield spell, why dont use matter essence + a wooden shield to cast it?

 

That would be a nice way to get items out of the game, like you did already with changing summoning.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

Piper

 

Edit: arg, yes, EFE for ti LONG sword..

Edited April 24, 2006 by The_Piper

[Atlantis]

Maybe Remove the EFE from tit long, and add in more tit and steel bars, etc. Right now it is not profitable to make.

Edited April 24, 2006 by Atlantis

[Vormavius]

Since cooldown started, people started to buy FP to work. Since then, most of the ppl have few gc's, what means it's hard to get gc selling stuff for them.

Well, the source of money from npc, today comes from Reasoning pots, steel longs selling to trik, diamond and tit ore selling, and Blue Lupine/Lilacs selling (even for very experienced players)

 

What makes items cheaper, is not the great amount of them in the market, but the lack of gc from the players.

 

Should have some gain from fighting monsters today, because, for example:

 

I'll fight cyclopes, I'll carry 120 HE (~720 gc), 30 SR (~500 gc), and I get back 300 gc at most. Dropped items are rare and unsellable, because nobody wants more books. Plus, everytime i get pants+boots destroyed (150gc) shield broke (450 gc) and steel chain sometimes (850 gc). It is worse if use any EFE item like cuisses/greaves or tit chain. Because a damage cost ~1.3k gc, or the completely loss of the item (4~5kgc).

 

That makes fighting monsters insane. You spent too much only for levelling a/d/magic.

[Moebius]

Well, as I'm mainly a manu'er, I'll give my oppinion about manu'ing:

 

Let's see, a manu'er can use leather to level up, or bars.

 

There's no way to sell 1.5k leather helms because they're useless with the cheap iron helms, so Trik is the only way to go.

 

Bars are a huge pain to make, and I'd like to buy them from other players. But then, you realize this: the only sword I can mass-sell for a decent price is Steel Long. It's price is 450gc. 12 steel bars and 2 iron bars cam be sold to NPC for 30 and 25 gc each. Total ingredients price for steel long sword: 360 + 50 + 12 = 422 gc.

 

Now, try to find someone who sells bars at NPC price. It's really hard, no one sells steel under 35 or iron under 30. And I understand it, making them is hard. So here we have a problem: ingredients cost more than the final product, so leveling is a pain. And that's the better case, Iron Sword and Iron Broad are throwing around 200-300 gc on each click on mix button.

 

So, why not raise Trik prices and make him buy every armor / weapon in the game? Does that sound so strange? I mean... someone said that the reason why prices are low is that there's no money in the game. I disagree. I can produce enough leather items in 1-2 days to satisfy the whole EL community's needs of a week (exaggerated? maybe, but close to). That's too much offering for such a low demand. Same for alchemists, potion makers or crafters, I'd say. Not lack of money, excess of products.

 

And about the summoning, I'd say that there should be some kind of fight NPC near any summon arena that "likes" or "needs" summons for something, and pays you a quantity of gold coins for each summon? Maybe too hard to make, just an idea... I saw Graham's arena and it looks like a summoning duel place. That, mixed with bets, could produce money too.

 

Well, anyway, my main idea is there, and it's not only for manu, it's for all stuff, NPC's should buy all items in game. That way, everything would have a bottom price, as FE's.

 

Back to game to let you criticise my idea for a while

[RedHawkXIII]

Empty Glass vials

 

I realize this is a small thing but I think it should be adjusted.

 

Right now most people buy & drink mana potions to get their empty vials because that's cheaper than going to Harvey and having him make them. I'd adjust Harvey's price a bit.

 

Cheers.

 

i believe ronab means to make them cheaper like less QUARTZ because the work involved in making 1 teeny tiny glass vial is ridiculous--and in addition, its 3 gp! a suggestion would be for example 3 Gc and 2 quartz, or 2 gc and 3 quartz--its also a nuissance to take the quartz back and forth for 1/5 of what you brought to Harvy in vials

[Enyo]

I have several suggestions which I've been thinking of for awhile now:

 

Increase the passage price to C2 500 for regular players and 1.5K for antisocial..C2 should be a little more difficult to travel than it is now. I also don't feel that rings should work between two continents and I've always said that. The way it is now the price of passage is cheaper than the ring. This doesn't make sense. Bring a little roleplay back into the game.

 

Artificial perk.. get rid of it altogether or change the random factor in it.. decrease the chances of creating enriched items because now the market is saturated with enriched essences. Stop selling EFE in the shop or sell it for much higher prices. EFE is supposed to be worth something. Now it isn't.

 

Get rid of the MM perk. This will promote more sells for fighters and the MM cloak will once again have some value.

 

Have Cyclops discontinue to drop the tit long. Its a valuable weapon and its dropped so often that the value is worthless. No one even bothers to buy them anymore.

 

Books are good as drops but should be less frequent. Also I suggest that the NPC increase book prices to sellers since they did for buyers.. that is only fair.

 

Greater failure rate when making more than X number of anything per day to prevent over production of items in order to simply "level" those flooding the market.

 

Change restoration from a full restore to a partial restore at magic level 21 and evolve to a full restore at a much higher magic level (if at all). Healing spells need more variety than 5 hp/7hp and then a full restore? That doesn't make sense at all. A full restore is too powerful in the first place and makes it too easy to "level" up.

 

Bring back level restrictions for armor and weapons and even for making items, etc. Don't worry, people will still buy from the shop. That will make them want to work harder on the evolution of their char.

 

Find more uses for the serp stone. It is also another worthless item. When I first started playing 16 months ago it sold for 1.5K and now you're lucky to get 100gc. It shouldn't be like that.

 

Impliment taxes on storage. Everyone must pay taxes based on how many slots are filled or perhaps based on how much gold or perhaps based on how many expensive items or perhaps based on something entirely different. Taxes would be good.

 

Reduce cooldown on rings or get rid of it altogether. Rings are practically useless now. No one even bothers with damage rings anymore and forget diss rings, too. Pk is nearly impossible with a cooldown on diss rings. Also reduce the cooldown on food.

 

Impliment quests for every 10 levels.. it shouldn't be so easy to "level up". If a player didn't complete his quest he doesn't proceed to the next 10 levels. The quest should be slightly difficult. I'm not a programmer so I honestly don't know how difficult this would be to impliment.

 

Impliment knowledge to make SRS.

 

Get rid of powerhungry perk because its just 3 FREE pick points since everyone who has it also uses the powersaving cloak which cancels the disadvantage of the perk thus making it null and void.. or make it so the powersaving cloak doesn't work for people who have the powerhungry perk. It does say that these two shouldn't work together and yet they do.

[m_bee]

First, I vote for the EFEless tit long.

 

Second, the potions need a readjustment in the bottom line, Mira should buy pots for a minimun, so potioners would not be making SR's for 10gc. That is a rip, counting the fests and vials that you need to invest. Mira shoould buy SR's for something like 17gc or 12gc+vial if that is possible to implement.

 

The feasts need a readjustment, they are not worthable to make, overall, if you consider that halft of the valur is returned in the form of a vial. Who's the moron that is going to take trips to make a thing that needs 3 items that are not storable, and that has such a big weight?

 

The He's, the same. People sells them for about 5-6gc in most cases. I am not going to spend a whole week harvesting 20k silver, 24kgc to buy 2k feasts and the time to make them, to take 50kgc (i can do that in one or two days harvesting lupines).

 

But the price to the broken gc, goes to the crafting as a whole... damn! Of course, you cant sell the crafted items to a given price, if the whole economy is not boosted before. Right now, every single manuable item is a loss. I could sell iron helms to 70gc to trik, but i dont feel like that. Id better thow them under the smelly water in the WS sewers.

 

 

Well, anyway, my main idea is there, and it's not only for manu, it's for all stuff, NPC's should buy all items in game. That way, everything would have a bottom price, as FE's.

 

 

And I agree wholeheartedly with you (yeah, im Transvaal). The bottom line needs to be enforced, otherwise, people will just break it again and again. The same is true for the books, but well... ill better shut up, before anyone starts lighting the stick to trash me lol.

 

The economy in EL needs something more that a bit of tuning, but well, any step ahead is wellcome.

[Enyo]

What the economy needs actually is an entire new interface...how we play and percieve the game altogether. Something has been lost here.. ambience has died... and making it yet easier to mass produce or easier to level isn't going to improve anythiing at all except to fulfull the addictive needs to compete on massive mindless clicking level.

 

People need to stop thinking in BIG numbers such as mass production of items simply to "level" up. NO, mira doesn't need to pay more. NO, we don't need NPC to buy everything simply to encourage everyone to mass produce as much as possible.

 

Things need to be harder to make and there needs to be greater failures for the more items made per day or week, etc.. Just like we are only allowed X number of harvesting points per hour. The only serious problem with the economy other than what I've already posted previously is that the players over produce. That is what needs to stop.

[Kougria]

I have several suggestions which I've been thinking of for awhile now:

 

Increase the passage price to C2 500 for regular players and 1.5K for antisocial..C2 should be a little more difficult to travel than it is now. I also don't feel that rings should work between two continents and I've always said that. The way it is now the price of passage is cheaper than the ring. This doesn't make sense. Bring a little roleplay back into the game.

 

Artificial perk.. get rid of it altogether or change the random factor in it.. decrease the chances of creating enriched items because now the market is saturated with enriched essences. Stop selling EFE in the shop or sell it for much higher prices. EFE is supposed to be worth something. Now it isn't.

 

Get rid of the MM perk. This will promote more sells for fighters and the MM cloak will once again have some value.

 

Have Cyclops discontinue to drop the tit long. Its a valuable weapon and its dropped so often that the value is worthless. No one even bothers to buy them anymore.

 

Books are good as drops but should be less frequent. Also I suggest that the NPC increase book prices to sellers since they did for buyers.. that is only fair.

 

Change restoration from a full restore to a partial restore at magic level 21 and evolve to a full restore at a much higher magic level (if at all). Healing spells need more variety than 5 hp/7hp and then a full restore? That doesn't make sense at all. A full restore is too powerful in the first place and makes it too easy to "level" up.

 

Bring back level restrictions for armor and weapons and even for making items, etc. Don't worry, people will still buy from the shop. That will make them want to work harder on the evolution of their char.

 

Find more uses for the serp stone. It is also another worthless item. When I first started playing 16 months ago it sold for 1.5K and now you're lucky to get 100gc. It shouldn't be like that.

 

Reduce cooldown on rings or get rid of it altogether. Rings are practically useless now. No one even bothers with damage rings anymore and forget diss rings, too. Pk is nearly impossible with a cooldown on diss rings. Also reduce the cooldown on food.

 

Impliment quests for every 10 levels.. it shouldn't be so easy to "level up". If a player didn't complete his quest he doesn't proceed to the next 10 levels. The quest should be slightly difficult. I'm not a programmer so I honestly don't know how difficult this would be to impliment.

 

Impliment knowledge to make SRS.

 

I agree with those. They all sound neat, I like the idea of more quests in the game there interesting.

 

 

 

Impliment taxes on storage. Everyone must pay taxes based on how many slots are filled or perhaps based on how much gold or perhaps based on how many expensive items or perhaps based on something entirely different. Taxes would be good.

 

Get rid of powerhungry perk because its just 3 FREE pick points since everyone who has it also uses the powersaving cloak which cancels the disadvantage of the perk thus making it null and void.. or make it so the powersaving cloak doesn't work for people who have the powerhungry perk. It does say that these two shouldn't work together and yet they do.

 

Greater failure rate when making more than X number of anything per day to prevent over production of items in order to simply "level" those flooding the market.

 

However I dont agree with these 2, Taxes on a storage is just crazy, every1 uses the storage and we have the storage so we can store our items that we have, having taxes on it is just ridiculous in my view. Also yes powerhungry might be 3 free pps but you have lots of capes to choose from and the ps cloak only works if ur not researching anything or dont need mp or ep, so its very useful for people who need the pp and are still researching stuff then the cape doesnt cancel out. Also the greater failure rate i dont like if people work hard enough to get all the supplies to make a lot of item there shouldnt be a limit they worked hard to get the supplies and deserve the xp.

 

- Kougria

[Enyo]

 

Impliment taxes on storage. Everyone must pay taxes based on how many slots are filled or perhaps based on how much gold or perhaps based on how many expensive items or perhaps based on something entirely different. Taxes would be good.

 

Get rid of powerhungry perk because its just 3 FREE pick points since everyone who has it also uses the powersaving cloak which cancels the disadvantage of the perk thus making it null and void.. or make it so the powersaving cloak doesn't work for people who have the powerhungry perk. It does say that these two shouldn't work together and yet they do.

 

Greater failure rate when making more than X number of anything per day to prevent over production of items in order to simply "level" those flooding the market.

 

However I dont agree with these 2, Taxes on a storage is just crazy, every1 uses the storage and we have the storage so we can store our items that we have, having taxes on it is just ridiculous in my view. Also yes powerhungry might be 3 free pps but you have lots of capes to choose from and the ps cloak only works if ur not researching anything or dont need mp or ep, so its very useful for people who need the pp and are still researching stuff then the cape doesnt cancel out. Also the greater failure rate i dont like if people work hard enough to get all the supplies to make a lot of item there shouldnt be a limit they worked hard to get the supplies and deserve the xp.

 

- Kougria

 

Powersaving when worn with those who have powerhungry perk actually does cancel the perk out while wearing it. I didn't say to get rid of the cloak.. but to get rid of the perk or make the cloak not work with the perk as it says at the wraith. Its kinda cheating in a way to have the cloak work with the perk because it enables the player to bypass the disadvantage of the negative perk.

 

Greater failure seems realistic and the whole point is to discourage mass over production.. or another solution would only allow players to harvest X number of whatever per hour and the same with manu, crafting or potions or even fighting.. lets be real.. no one could fight in reality 24/7 .. so after x number of exp per hour you stop getting it?? I don't know. .. .. But the greater failure rate is also a thought.

 

Taxes on storage is also realistic, especially based on wealth, etc etc etc.. Its very realistic. I'm actually surprised it hasn't been implimented before.

 

 

The higher levels one has.. the more exp he/she is allowed to earn per hour? That also seems realistic. We need a cap on mass production of all kind, including fighting.. it also encourages the player to develop other skills or to participate in quests, etc. Its just a thought..

[Entropy]

I think you've missunderstood my intentions.

I do NOT want to implement anything new, and I am looking for exact suggestions, such as how and what exactly should change: formulas, prices, exp.

[Knuckles]

Books are good as drops but should be less frequent. Also I suggest that the NPC increase book prices to sellers since they did for buyers.. that is only fair.

 

No.. I think books sell for 1% of there value to buy from the NPC, which means most books are ~500gc, why not increase what the NPC pays for them to 10% of store price, meaning players will have to pay more for the books they need.. And it helps us a/d trainers to get some GC like what Vormavius said earlier.

[Moebius]

People need to stop thinking in BIG numbers such as mass production of items simply to "level" up. NO, mira doesn't need to pay more. NO, we don't need NPC to buy everything simply to encourage everyone to mass produce as much as possible.

 

So you suggest that a new player that wants to be... say crafter... should quit before starting. Because otherwise, how can he make the hundreds of k's of exp required to make a decent craft article? Same with manu and all skills... I mean... the exp levels involve mass production, and you know it. We all hate it being that way (or at least I do) but that's how it go, you need to work it to get levels.

 

The example I was using before with steel longs, let's take it further.

 

I'll call it EL without NPC's (it's a scary story someone told me once)

 

I make steel longs to raise manu, but Savyl suggests we need no NPC's. That makes that the mass production in EL (unavoidable, I can bet) can provide me with endless amounts of bars, because there's no Lakeside bar selling anymore. Ok, people fail more, but well, we all thought cooldown would be a revolution and it wasn't, losing more ingreds just wouldn't be appreciable. Ok, endless amount of bars... price drops to 10-20gc. Maybe lower, because there's no bottom price for bars. But there's no NPC to sell swords to. So I'll have to make my own bars to avoid losing money, provididng that someone is going to make bars for 10-20 gc each. Ok, I make FE's. Before the no-NPC idea FE's were 3 each, so I'd lose money on most bars, because there's no NPC to buy bars. So I'd have preferred to sell FE's for 3 each rather than making bars for Lakeside Village if there was no NPC there. Ok, no magic shop buying FE's for 3gc, no blacksmith to buy my bars for 25-40gc, no Trik to buy my swords for 450. I end up with k's and k's of useless swords in my storage, 0 gc (no bottom price for swords). And I remind you the hard work involved (I'm trying to make 1k steel longs, would be tit shorts if Trik bought them or longs if there was no EFE's).

 

So, conclussion: I'll do some Blue Lupines rounds in PL... OH! THERE'S NO NPC BUYING FLOWERS! Ok, I have to quit. There's no economy at all. Byebyeeee

 

[duran]

i hate to say this entropy but it will not be a minor job.

 

one of my suggestions would be to introduce more items like the serpent stone. basicly use them to replace the weapon and armor drops that monsters have today. but i guess that falls outside your request.

 

so here is my take, one that can be introduced without new gear.

 

increase the production time on all items, with a matching increase in xp. this will mean less items made pr level (no more the 1k swords or similar for a level issue). less items in scirculation, higher value.

 

then have a look around this forum. people have been producing spreadsheets that show the cost and value of diffrent items compared to the cost and value of their components.

 

problem here is that right now the npcs have a flat 10% as their purchase value. either every items value and forumla have to be tweaked with this limit in mind or the limit have to go.

 

now if one can tune that people should be left with about 10% more in their pocket after selling a item compared to what they had to pay for the parts then things should be getting a bit more interesting i think.

 

still, it all stands and falls on the value of the harvested items. this because all other items are based on them.

[Vormavius]

Ok, if the idea is to talk about prices, there's only 1 thing wrong in the game:

 

- You earn more gc selling the ingredients than make the item. Correct this and everything will be ok.

This diference is not small, its pretty huge.

 

Some ppl can say that you make the item and earn the experience also. You pay a price for the exp, but that price must be fair, not crazy like happens.

 

- Iron sword: 10 iron bars + 1 steel bar + 2 FE. Total Cost: 236~300 gc, and you get 100 experience. And sells for trik for 125 gc.

 

Simple, stablish reasonably and FAIR prices based on items used.

 

I see guys with ~50 manuf making leather helm to level.

I see guys with ~50 of summon summoning wolves.

I see guys with high rank skill taking Blue Lupine to earn money.

Nobody makes tit long because uses EFE.

 

I see some people giving ideas to make us spent more money. Even more.

 

The only skill that really gives any gc today is to Harvest. Change this please.

[Mr.Mind]

Stolen from my other post with some additions. I'm glad to see that Entropy is serious about this topic. I have nearly left the game because of the way the economy was being handled.

 

Problem: The Economy in General

 

Causes and Solutions (similar causes and solutions grouped, numbered for easy reference to what is solved):

C 1: Undercutting - people who want to sell their items quickly will lower their price

C 2: High supply - mass production required to level up

C 3: No price floor set by npcs - no limit to how low most items can be sold

C 4: Certain items being better for leveling up

C 5: Ingredients are often more valuable than finished product

 

S: Scale the experience gained from making items to correspond with the cost (from npcs) of ingredients - items created will be based soley on market demand and not personal xp need (2, 4)

S: Have trik buy every finished product in the game, so that the player will profit - sets a price limit safeguard so that the economy will not uncontrollably decline, also alleviates mass production and allows players to sell off their useless items (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)

S: Increase buying price for NPCs on all items to correspond with the ingredients buying price but with a slight profit - eliminates the masses of people standing around titanium or flowers to harvest cash (5)

S: Have every item available in the game be available to buy or sell to an npc - allows players the option of not dealing with the market channel and quick buying

S: Lower selling prices of npcs to a reasonable amount - encourages players to "sink" their gc

S: Alter manufacturing ingredients to correspond with the value of the item - would balance with a change in xp (5)

 

 

C 6: The EL store - makes items basically free in the game (efes)

S: Drastically increase the prices of items on the EL store or remove the EL store completely (6)

 

 

C 7: Some items are useless - damage rings, most weapons

C 8: Low demand - everyone already has the best items

C 9: No need for use in a variety of items - all the best items can be used by anyone

 

S: Have level requirements for wearing armor and weapons - creates a market for the "useless" weapons and armor (8, 9)

S: Increase breakage - obvious (8)

S: Alter cooldown values to make items worth using - (7, 9)

S: Change attack xp to per point of damage instead of per hit - makes weapons useful (7)

 

C 10: Whiners - people who will never shut up about how poor they are no matter how good the economy is

S: #ignore

 

This is all that I have for now. I know that I probably neglected some important issues, but that is because I cannot remember what I was doing so I had to stop here. If you want me to go into great detail on what specifically needs changing (with all the numbers and such). I won't do it until I know for a fact that a solution is being considered, because this would take some careful tinkering and be extremely time consuming. No sense in diving in without testing the waters first.

[Anamir]

I think the source of all evil is newbie players getting a lot of money selling animal parts for sumoners. The sumoners (experient players) stands with no money so they cant buy other but animal parts. Newbies (that earn 10gc per rabbit -6gc raw meat, 4gc rabbit fur) makes the prices of the market by buying MM per 4kgc, Iron plate for 8kgc.

So put raw meats to sell for 3gc on tavern and DONE no more rich newbies commanding the prices of the market.

 

Manufacture stuffs r other point. High level manufer train his skills by making leather helms. Y? cause is the only stuff that does not make him broke. If trik pay like the material price - 20% i think ppl wold start to make other things, i.e. 1 steel 2 edged sword: 2 iron bars ( 60gc) + 16 steel bars (640gc) + 3 fes (9gc) total: 709gc - 20% 709gc=560gc.

Manufer would restart to buy bars in market (so more ppl will make bars and raise their skills) and maybe make some modable swords to try magic swords with new books

 

Fighters should earn more money with the drops .. otherwise they would compete with manufers selling stuffs

Moon med (ogre+cyc drop) 300gc on PL magic shop

star med (garg+ogre+cyc) 150gc

Uni med (female orc drop) 200gc

S2e (troll, skelly and gob drop)trik 560gc

iron sword 120gc on trik (cause there is the quest that uses 40 iron swords)

steel long (ogre drop) 420gc trik

steel chains (troll drop) 900gc

 

MIra should buy SRs for 15gc and BRs for 18gc so if some player want to buy some of my SRs would pay a decent price for that

 

Dunno .. my english sucks so ill stop

 

[]'s Anamir

[Gwain]

my 2 cents on the issue:

 

1) Decreasing the quantity of components needed for an item will not solve anything, because decreasing the item's cost to manufacture will also allow the people to sell the same item for less.

 

2)While changing the Exp formulas will give more input on producing some items instead of others it will just change the problem (whats the difference if i produce titanium longs instead of leather helms, when i produce 2000 of them?), it will not solve it.

 

3)My tought is that most of the basic essences, manu and crafting items needs to be sold at NPCs at a realistic price (80-90% of the value of the raw items), while the resources needed to make higher level items should be increased (in term of non-harvestable stuff. EFEs, Serps, Bindings, mercury, leather and so on.)

 

That would bring 2 effects.

 

1) People would get more money from selling items to NPCs. (while not taking the full money back)

2) People would spend more money to make high level items. (having to buy more of the non harvestable items)

 

 

I do realize that adjusting the game's economy while the game is running will be an hard task, let's hope it will work for the good of EL

 

 

Cheers.

 

Edit: Mr. Mind posted an extensive post about what i think. signed 100% (if you would post that be4 i would start to write you would have saved me from a lot of hassle mind! ;p)

Edited April 25, 2006 by Tharazik

[Entropy]

Umm, guys, let's start small first, shall we?

One step at a time.

So, how much should the price be for the standard swords? Keep in mind that the sell price (to an NPC) is half the buying price (from an NPC).

[Mundaus]

At present, all swords except steel long, tit short and tit serp are very bad for manuers. The ingredients required can be greatly reduced without making the trik or market prices seem generous. E.g.

 

Specific proposals for swords:

Iron Sword: 5 iron bars, 2 FEs

Iron Broad Sword: 8 iron bars, 2 steel bars, 3 FEs

Tit long: 10 titanium bars, 10 steel bars, 6 FEs (+serp stone?)

 

Proposals for the s2e are harder, because its never going to sell for as much as the trik price (425) for steel longs. I suggest cutting the Trik price for steel longs to 300 and then using:

Steel Long: 8 steel bars, 2 iron bars, 4 FEs

s2e: 10 steel bars, 2 iron bars, 4FEs

with Trik buying s2e at 350.

 

The swords can now be manufactured at a slight loss if sold to Trik, which seems reasonable. I don't think the exp needs cutting especially as the exp for theses swords currently looks low compared to that given by iron helm. I haven't taken into account the possibility of producing moddable swords here (I've no idea of the probabilities) but this might mean that an extra bar or so should be added to the recipes.

 

A digression: I think Savyl's suggestion will work better than tinkering, but I'd go further. Only award exp for the first 30 (say) manufactures (or whatever) per hour - exactly like with harvesting. This should immediately stop overproduction by removing the motivation for it. The effects are (i) Very little production of items intending to sell at a loss - there's just no point. (ii) Prevent high level manuers etc. from bullying lower level individuals out of the market, since if you have a high level, and only get exp for the first 30 items per hour, you will make high level items. At the moment, its a good idea for high level manuers to sit about making leather helms all day, this isnt really sensible.

Another option (though not so good i think) would be to award exp in all skills along the same lines as for att and def - very little exp for high level characters making low level items.

 

Looking forward to getting flamed...

 

EDIT: Wrote this before seeing Ent's last post, in terms of sword prices i'm suggesting leave iron sword and iron broad as now, cut the price of steel long to 300/600 (sell/buy), set s2e at (350/700). Don't have Trik buying the titanium swords.

Edited April 25, 2006 by Mundaus