Fixing the economy, part 2

[Gen_Axis]

Just instead swords make them: leather pants and/or leather helms and iron helms are good tho, and it would be great :-)

[Longsh0t]

Well, given the huge enthusiasm from people, I've decided to use my time in more rewarding (for me) ways.

Case closed.

Come on . Like people said in the beginning of the other economy thread: fixing an economy is NOT an easy task.

 

We have got to tackle the basic problems here. Combining some thoughts from the other thread these are the two problems:

• Mass production
  
• No value chain (people still harvest flowers for cash instead of making titanium longs)
  

Your idea is a cool addition to the game, which really helps creating teamwork and maybe it would also have a slight effect on the economy. However, it will promote mass production even more and that itself will lead to problems (macroing, unfair advantage for large guilds, etc).

[Ayreus]

I think this is an idea worth looking into further. Although, as has already been said, it will promote further production of the "junk" items. Also, that having benefits for the whole guild would not be fair for smaller guilds as mentioned... I don't think this idea should be scraped entirely.

 

Right now I'm making a lot of leather gloves, I think I have like 150 of them in my storage. They are very hard to sell. I have been trying to sell a lot of 100, as there is a quest that requires 100 gloves, but I still have not been able to sell this "junk" item.

 

Perhaps the npc that accepts donations could provide a benefit for the individual, instead of the guild as a whole. This eliminates the problem of guild size. Obviously, I'm not making leather gloves for profit, so I would gladly donate them if by doing so I received 1000 or so exp for manu upon donating the 100 leather gloves. Or perhaps I receive a +5% exp bonus for manu for the remainder of the game day. Also, this npc could give out varying levels of exp bonus based on the unused charm attribute.... or follow the idea of god quests... more donations you do... higher exp bonus...

 

Just a few ideas... don't throw this idea out... I have to do something with all my leather gloves...

[Gen_Axis]

Also, that having benefits for the whole guild would not be fair for smaller guilds as mentioned...

 

It was considered as advantage for big guilds...

 

You know, bigger guilds needs bigger challenges.

Same as stronger player needs stronger monsters.

 

Idea about donating useless low lvl stuff for some benefits is just great.

It could be made for whole guilds and/or 'standalone' players.

Just these items should be really useless in other way.

 

Swords can be now sold to Trik or 'summoned'.

Well, you can make s2e & tit. short 'donatable'.

Same as leather helms & gloves & pants (they are sellable to Trik, but running around with 5k of them, while they are non-stackable, sux)

Edited April 26, 2006 by Gen_Axis

[Enyo]

Well, given the huge enthusiasm from people, I've decided to use my time in more rewarding (for me) ways.

Case closed.

Case closed? . . hmmm, well that is your right however. Are you closing the case and saying something like you are going to use your time on (you) instead of the game because everyone was not agreeing with your idea. Not all of our ideas are well recieved either but is that any cause to give up? Do you want contructive critique or lies? Personally, I would prefer honesty as long as its respectful, tactful, polite and constructive. I would try not to take it personally if my ideas were not popular.

 

Ultimaltely, you are "teh god" and you do as you like. We are just the guinea pigs who you experiment with and thats our choice of course. Keep in mind that us pigs do have some real EL game experience and we are sharing our views, thoughts and hopefully honest opinions with the development team from a players viewpoint. That doesn't mean that we know what the heck we are doing. It also doesn't mean that we don't have some excellent input. Either way, you are the creator of the game and the head developer so if you have a plan that you believe strongly in then go for it...make an executive decision. Who knows, maybe in the end it will be one of the best impliments in the game.

 

Personally, I still think that its a terrible idea but I am not a developer and I don't see where you are taking this. You also mentioned that you need more time to think about it. I don't think your post is fair to us.. you are somehow trying to make us feel guilty for being honest with you. All that will do is encourage people to not be honest with you.

 

Just because we may not like ONE of your ideas or maybe even more than one, doesn't mean that we don't appreciate you and all of the work involved. Hopefully you also appreciate your own work (and that you ENJOY what you are doing) enough to believe in what you are doing to take any negative critique or comments with a grain of salt. At the same time, its good to have at least one ear open just in case something of importance might be said.. or in this case, one eye since everything is in text.

 

Finally, if we didn't love this game even though its still in beta we wouldn't be here in the first place. We all do appreciate and respect your original game concept, the continued untold hours of development, the team, the mods, the artistic and other brilliant contributions from Roja and every single map creator down to the very last encylopedia entry.. even the little sea sounds that we hear at Port Anitora in the second continent. Be encouraged.

 

Give the idea more time (revamp it a bit if maybe?) and give players more time to mull about it and to help you develop it further instead of just throwing in the towel.

[Kedan]

I think this is a good idea that needs a bit of work, however its not going to help the enconmy much. I think there are some other ideas of the first thread that would help the econmy more.

 

This would give use to the currently useless items and bring in more demand, but i still dont think it would match the supply of the items (if we are talking about things like leather helms and pants there is proberly 5,000 made every hour. So we need to lower the amount being made some way (there are a few ideas in the other thread, main three being tool coldown, manuing caps and manuing in stages). Then if we also bring up the demand abit with idea's such as this one, and re-using older weapons, the supply and demand should even out alot more

[Enyo]

I have a suggestion..

 

Even though I personally feel that this idea isn't going to do anything at all to help improve the economy and as it currently stands and is an unfair advantage to large and powerful guilds with high level players.. plus not all players even train attack/defense and they care more about other aspects of the game so its not fair to them either..

 

This idea could be a special feature, so instead of giving players an attack/defense blessing why not give the guild special access to a more challenging or interesting map? or give the guild a choice of what kind of blessing that they want.. allow them choice so that not only attack/defense is offered or give the guild other types of blessings..features, etc ranks.. etc.. I don't know. Or this special guild god could be part of this experience school you mentioned on another thread where players would manu items for experience only..

 

Having this guild god alone as is will only promote more and yet more and more massive over production and will still do nothing to change the economy but as a special feature could be interesting with more development. It won't promote players to buy more and more items from other players. It will only encourage a mass furry of getting those special blessings however that in itself will promote more and more leveling.

[Moebird]

I've been following this thread and agree with many of the ideas i've seen here, but like many ideas that sound good on paper, they rarely work as proposed. What about limiting the resources themselves, like a harvest exp. limit? With less materials to work with, fewer items will be produced. Fewer items being made will increase the value (and cost) of what is produced. Newbs could benefit by selling their harvest items to the highest bidder. Don't know how workable this would be, just my thoughts on the system.

[Talchiyar]

I like Ents idea but the major problem of the Econnemy in EL is

that there is no need for items. A player here says they harvest flowers instead of making titan longs

as i know right titan longs can only selled to players and to NPC-Shops and btw most of all players dont fight with swords they dont train in Plate Mails cause there is no need, you will get more exp if you fight without high armor and high class weapons.

Ok i wasnt in the game long time but i now most of the new features and they are great.

But who will going to fight with an "Sword of Ice"

I have no clue how to make it better the only thing for me is , create a need for items then they will be used and if they are used they broke , get lost and then everybody need new ones´

 

Talchiyar

 

 

p.s. an easy thing to rise the needings is : if anybody die make a chance that he loose one or two items completly and now flame me all : make all Places to a pk area ;-) it sounds a bit mean but thats a way to rise the need of armor and swords

Edited April 26, 2006 by Talchiyar

[Mr.Mind]

This idea would do nothing to change the economy. However, I would support it because RICH could easily dump items on an npc for advantages like this. So let's vote this idea in, since it would benefit RICH more than most.

 

lol

 

-If you want to get rid of items and help the economy at the same time, then give them a use instead of creating a trash can.

Edited April 26, 2006 by Mr.Mind

[Entropy]

As I was saying, forget about it. I am not going to implement something people will bitch at, I have better things to do.

I have nother idea on how to get rid of some items, and you'll see it when it's implemented (no details yet).

[Mr.Mind]

Why does it matter if people like what you're doing? Add whatever features you want to have in the game - it's your game...

 

Whether something works or not has nothing to do with whether people like it.

Edited April 26, 2006 by Mr.Mind

[exvitermini]

Well i have an simple idea

Why dont make another bots like trik who buy all the stuff, a trik for craft, a trik for alch, for magic...and those bots pay better prices for the stuff we produce exemple i make a tit chain and want to sell it, i try to sell for 4.5k in market and nobody buy it or think its expansive, in that case i go to trik and sell it for 4.5k and if trik pay 4.5k i can try to sell for 5k

Its will be or u pay my price or i sell to bot, there will be no more ppl selling stuff so cheap and ppl who saw cheap price once and want to pay the same all time

I think its simple and good

[Learner]

Well i have an simple idea

Why dont make another bots like trik who buy all the stuff, a trik for craft, a trik for alch, for magic...and those bots pay better prices for the stuff we produce exemple i make a tit chain and want to sell it, i try to sell for 4.5k in market and nobody buy it or think its expansive, in that case i go to trik and sell it for 4.5k and if trik pay 4.5k i can try to sell for 5k

Its will be or u pay my price or i sell to bot, there will be no more ppl selling stuff so cheap and ppl who saw cheap price once and want to pay the same all time

I think its simple and good

That would lead to flooding the market with gc ... there is a reason that Trik pays so little ... he used to buy many items.

[Mr.Mind]

Well i have an simple idea

Why dont make another bots like trik who buy all the stuff, a trik for craft, a trik for alch, for magic...and those bots pay better prices for the stuff we produce exemple i make a tit chain and want to sell it, i try to sell for 4.5k in market and nobody buy it or think its expansive, in that case i go to trik and sell it for 4.5k and if trik pay 4.5k i can try to sell for 5k

Its will be or u pay my price or i sell to bot, there will be no more ppl selling stuff so cheap and ppl who saw cheap price once and want to pay the same all time

I think its simple and good

That would lead to flooding the market with gc ... there is a reason that Trik pays so little ... he used to buy many items.

It would be easy to have items for sale from npcs as a money sink (eventually the rich players would resort to this), as long as the prices are reasonable. I buy wolf furs from henrik.

Edited April 27, 2006 by Mr.Mind

[roswell_r]

As I was saying, forget about it. I am not going to implement something people will bitch at, I have better things to do.

I have nother idea on how to get rid of some items, and you'll see it when it's implemented (no details yet).

 

Greatly increasing the chance of a weapon/armor and or item breaking even when fighting a lower leveled creature might be a start. Just a thought.

[Entropy]

Which will make me (and you, implicitly) a very popular guy.

[Guest stalag]

Greatly increasing the chance of a weapon/armor and or item breaking even when fighting a lower leveled creature might be a start. Just a thought.

 

 

great ideia so smart u are....its soooooo easy to make money in the game, everybody is sooooo rich already that increase probability of breaking items is what we need

 

I know spend 2 days collecting flowers to fight one is not good enough...its necessary spend a whole week to fight one i guess. Fighters already win soooo much money from drops that we dont know what to do with it

 

Playing the game 8,10 hours a day is not enough anymore with that ideia we better forget reality and live here

 

Im glad u are from NEW guild didn't know u all so rich better start to pk u guys to support that brillant ideia

[roswell_r]

What about limiting the amount of items npcs can buy from players. Or take away NPC's buy option all together?

[ville-v]

Or just do like in Other-Life that npc asks less from stuff he has much and more from stuff he has just some (and same when selling for npc)?

[Guest stalag]

what about trying to fix more players in the game? Im not phd in economy but lack of players is what in my opinion is the base of economy break down. Its necessary more players to increase demand and supply.

 

Btw i tryied to buy 5k of AE and noone was availabe to sell it for several days, maybe is time the workers start to look better at what market is asking...

[vwpro]

salvage weapons to get back some recources

[ttlanhil]

what about trying to fix more players in the game? Im not phd in economy but lack of players is what in my opinion is the base of economy break down. Its necessary more players to increase demand and supply.

that won't help. the oversupply of EFE and such is because there are so many people making them... production is going up, yet usage is dropping... why? how many do you need? if someone wants a set of plate w/ serp, and a spare, that's 10... by the time they get to the stage they should be using them, how many efe have they already made?

 

as for AE, well, the demand for them has gone up sharply in recent times, and the ingredients are a bit harder to get than those for, say, FE or even HE. the market will catch up sooner or later

[Kedan]

I'v have said this time and time again, setting NPC price's wont fix the problem it will just move it to another problem. eg. if they all brought all items at a good price to much money will be in game, cause another problem.

 

We need to get it so that the supply and demand of every item is the same, and as we can't really bring up the demand, we need to lower the supply, so basicly make it take longer to prduce one item (this will need to be tweaked to get it right for ever item). Problem is manuer and so on, dont like sitting there doing nothing for a long time (by this i mean clicking the mix button and having to wait over 30 sec's) so we need to find some way of giving them something to do while sitting there. One thing could be split the items into stages of making them, that way the total time to make a finished product could be 1 hour, but broken down into 30 seconds for each stage.

 

Have you ever wonder why there is a making for items like furs, meats and AE. It's because the time to get one of these tiems into the game is around the same as how often they are used. The best example is the AE's. As they have items like diamonds in them they take a long time to make so even though almost everyone in game can make them, high level people would rather buy them and save there time. If we could get this for every item we would start improving the market

[Arnieman]

what about trying to fix more players in the game? Im not phd in economy but lack of players is what in my opinion is the base of economy break down. Its necessary more players to increase demand and supply.

as for AE, well, the demand for them has gone up sharply in recent times, and the ingredients are a bit harder to get than those for, say, FE or even HE. the market will catch up sooner or later

Stalag - if you still need AE, pm me in game or here on forums.

 

ttlanhil - I'd love to see this AE demand - other than the last couple days I've been off, I've tried in the last month to sell some AEs. I got a total of two offers, both of which are too low for me to accept, in that neither covered my costs to produce the essence (only because I was using FPs and chose to give the market some money for resources).

 

I want to show an ideal situation on the market:

A harvester should be able to harvest product, then sell to an alchemist. Then the alchemist can make the product into an essence or bar, and sell it on...

 

And, now the current model:

A harvester harvests material, then makes the essence/bar, then makes it into something else/sells it off for way less than it's worth/uses it themself. Or, a harvester plunks down at a flower bush, picks flowers, sells flowers.

 

There is no incentive to playing with other players.