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#1 Mythos

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 10:41 PM

Last night I had a discussion with a friend over the use of a trade bot's storage.
Basically, I understood that it is against the rules to use the storage of your trade bot, as it is only acceptable when you own a storage bot.

 

Now I'm getting a bit confused,  cause i don't know the exact difference between trade and storage bots (the latter don't sell stuff or?)


Edited by Mythos, 20 March 2014 - 10:42 PM.


#2 darrock

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 11:31 PM

A trade bot offers to buy/sell things to the general public. Most of them (except for Adarah) are not located close enough to reach a storage.

 

A sto bot does not deal with the general public. It stores things for you or your guild. It is located within reach of a storage. It can only be online for up to 5 minutes at a time.



#3 PaulB

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 11:41 PM

You can access the storage of a trade bot. You are allowed to bring the trade bot to storage 2x a week and it must be kept short trip.  You cannot trade with anyone but yourself provided you're the bots owner as I recall.

 

http://www.eternal-l...=46217&p=467804



#4 Mythos

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 12:00 AM

 

You can access the storage of a trade bot. You are allowed to bring the trade bot to storage 2x a week and it must be kept short trip.  You cannot trade with anyone but yourself provided you're the bots owner as I recall.

 

http://www.eternal-l...=46217&p=467804

 

Yet apparently you are not allowed to put items into a trade bot's storage. At least this is what i have been told. Which is kinda new to me, to be completely honest.


Edited by Mythos, 21 March 2014 - 12:10 AM.


#5 Mythos

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 12:09 AM

A trade bot offers to buy/sell things to the general public. Most of them (except for Adarah) are not located close enough to reach a storage.

 

A sto bot does not deal with the general public. It stores things for you or your guild. It is located within reach of a storage. It can only be online for up to 5 minutes at a time.

Ok. Thank you darrock, now it is clear. More or less like the Global Quest bot, right?

Now, the question. It is forbidden to use the storage space of a trade bot to put stuff the bot sells in there?

Note: How can I edit to avoid double posting?


Edited by Mythos, 21 March 2014 - 12:11 AM.


#6 darrock

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 12:28 AM

You may use the storage space of a trade bot for things the bot sells, PROVIDED the bot owner is not using it for personal storage AND you are not using it to hold ingredients for mixing.

 

Does that answer the question?



#7 Mythos

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 01:00 AM

You may use the storage space of a trade bot for things the bot sells, PROVIDED the bot owner is not using it for personal storage AND you are not using it to hold ingredients for mixing.

 

Does that answer the question?

Ok, since English is not my native language and in order to avoid any confusions deriving from the subtle interpretation of that statement, I'll rephrase my question via several practical questions (hoping that you will have time to answer it).

I own a trade bot (which sells lots of stuff, armors, essences, potions, tokens, animal parts, clothing, books). 
My questions would be

1. I want to sell 10 books of Titanium Serpent Sword of Ice, but I want to put only 2 on my bot (due to inventory limitations) can i place the other 8 books in the bot's storage?
2. I want to sell 400 white rabbit furs, but I place only 200 at a time (cause of emu limitations), can i place the rest of 200 furs in the bot's storage?
3. I have a bot coupon, that would be used in the future for my bot. Can i stock that coupon in the bot's storage?
4. I have some perk removals that aren't selling very well. Can i place them in my bot's storage and try to sell later?
5. I have some sets of clothing, weapons for my bot. Can I store these in the bot's storage?

Thank you in advance for your help!


Edited by Mythos, 21 March 2014 - 01:01 AM.


#8 darrock

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 03:12 AM

Mythos, your questions are reasonable ones, and I'll try to address them. But first, a suggestion: Think about the items you'd like to sto on your trade bot. If your primary goal is to free up one of your own precious 300 sto slots without selling or otherwise disposing of the item, don't do it.  If your primary goal is to make it easier for your trade bot to do its job of buying and selling, without breaking any explicit rules, it's likely going to be ok.  (If you want more sto slots, think about getting a sto bot for $20 per year.)

 

1. I want to sell 10 books of Titanium Serpent Sword of Ice, but I want to put only 2 on my bot (due to inventory limitations) can i place the other 8 books in the bot's storage?
2. I want to sell 400 white rabbit furs, but I place only 200 at a time (cause of emu limitations), can i place the rest of 200 furs in the bot's storage?

As I understand the rules, both of these situations would be ok. Because of inv slot/emu limitations, it makes sense to store 'extras' of items currently for sale in the bot's storage.

3. I have a bot coupon, that would be used in the future for my bot. Can i stock that coupon in the bot's storage?

Since this is for a shop transaction, it is ok to store the bot coupon in your bot's storage.

4. I have some perk removals that aren't selling very well. Can i place them in my bot's storage and try to sell later?

I'd be inclined to say 'no' on this one.

5. I have some sets of clothing, weapons for my bot. Can I store these in the bot's storage?

I'm going to stick my neck out here and say it seems reasonable to store a clothing/equipment change for your bot. After all, it can't be expected to wear that Santa hat all year 'round. :) But, I wouldn't think that multiple outfits and weapons would fall within the realm of 'reasonable'.

 

 



#9 Patriot

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 05:44 AM

I was given notice by radu when a #help_me was sent on this topic, that nothing is to be stored in the trade bots storage at all. Only items in inventory to be on bot.

 

Unless, ofc, I may have mis-understood.

 

Not sure if chat log posting is allowed, but he told me they are only allowed to carry the items they buy or sell.



#10 Starlite

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 10:54 PM

After people pay $100 to obtain blessing and a further $20 yearly fee it is a lot of money to have the privilege of having a bot.  Why not do away totally with the idea of separate bots for trade and storage and have ONE multi use bot.  Let the owners decide if they want to store a few items for themselves and trade. As the fees haven't changed in some years I'm sure people would be prepared to pay maybe $25-30 a year for a multi-purpose bot.



#11 Starlite

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 11:12 PM

@Darrock  Just one point re your comment about a bot not carrying items on the bot for mixing.

The bot has a reserve function which many owners use to buy ings they do indeed need for mixing eg: steel bars so isn't that a form of holding items for mixing?



#12 darrock

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 01:21 AM

The bot has a reserve function which many owners use to buy ings they do indeed need for mixing eg: steel bars so isn't that a form of holding items for mixing?

Not a problem as long as you are hauling the ings back to storage to mix. Your trade bot should not be used as your 'safe bag' for mixing, or your 'storage away from storage.'



#13 Burn

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 07:12 AM

Your bot can buy stuff without selling it at all. Better than reserve... Reserve is when you do resell an item, but you want to keep a few for yourself. It's not intended for you to use as a storage means for your own nearby mixing.

 

The idea that you can't use the bot's storage at all isn't held up in the official bot rules. There are many who regularly remotely send their bot back to storage (the allotted twice per week), dump the stuff that's only being bought, restock with items in the bot's storage what's being sold.

 

The fact that you can only take the bot to storage twice per week, and thus only have access to the items in that storage twice per week, should be more than enough reason as to why its storage isn't mentioned in the bot rules. That limitation alone is going to keep its storage down to stuff that the bot is going to sell.

 

Thus, there's no real reason to have a rule about its storage. The twice-per-week keeps it from being "abused".

 

 

This is, of course, only my opinion, however I've never heard anything about the limiting of the bot's storage. And if I haven't, it's likely most if not all others haven't, either.

 

 

If there actually is any further limitations on its storage beyond the twice-per-week trips that already significantly limit it, then radu would have to actually speak up about that, and as well add it to the bot rules stickied at the top of this forum so noone is playing with "hidden rules", which only lead to being violated without knowledge. But with the storage already being limited to only being accessible twice per week, there really is no valid reason for having further rules on it.


Edited by Burn, 22 March 2014 - 07:20 AM.


#14 saxum

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 12:05 PM

I know a number of bot owners who mix using their trade bot and it is why they choose to put it there.  Some use it for whole guild to mix there.  Some advertise it is available for mixing buying and selling with small delta in prices. Some have member prices.   I would find it very strange that what is allowed for non-bot owners is not allowed for bot owners but I am not a bot owner.



#15 wuffzel

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 06:57 AM

found something in bot rules that might explain why owners can't
do something with thier bot, that other players can do with the bot...

5. Bots that serve their master in a way such as muling are illegal (see the rules for multiplaying).

so using the bot for mixing at it for the owner or using the sto for users items
is nearly the same as you use an alt for that, hope that helps :)

#16 vinoveritas

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 10:31 AM

I do not see that there sorry.
 

5. No Illegal Multiplaying.
Illegal multi-playing means using more than one character to help you gain benefits that using a single character would not.
An alt is defined as one of multiple characters a person uses or has used, including shared characters. You may not use a character you have previously interacted with.
Once you have logged on to a character for any reason, you have used it.
1. Owning or using multiple characters is legal as long as they do not interact, and do not help each other in any way (directly or indirectly) at any time.
3. Proceeds (items, gc, etc) from character sales are not allowed to be put on any other character used by the seller. Any attempts to hide such transactions are subject to the same penalty. Please note we do not endorse or support these sales, and any scams or problems are not the responsibility of Eternal Lands..
 
4. All characters destined to become bots or guild storages are considered alts until they are officially made a bot with a purple name. They must abide by this rule until that happens. They must then follow all bot rules. Guild storages will be considered as bots, even if they are not run by a program. They must be declared and registered on the official list. They will follow all ingame rules AND all bot rules.

Ok Main Rule says you cannot have multiple alts that interact to eachother in a way that helps each others. rule number 4 specifies that bots are not considered alts.

Mainly what is left here in the Bot rules that this rule specify, is Man in the middle trades and Muling, as something bots cannot do.

 

Now lets look at the bot tules that say anything close to this topic

4. Trade bots cannot be in range of any storage, or in high traffic areas (docks, etc.)

You cannot have a Trading Bot at a storage (there is one exception to that rule)
 

5. Bots that serve their master in a way such as muling are illegal (see the rules for multiplaying).

Only thing that says, no man in the Middle Trade No Muling stuff from your storage to location for mixing and otherway around.
As Storage Bots are  allowed this cannot fall unter multiplaying.
 

6. Bots cannot be stationed in range of harvestable items. They must be far enough way so that they
cannot harvest from where they are standing.

You need to transport stuff to the bot, not sit and store it right away.
 

9. Commerce bots have to be stationary, with a few exceptions (such as going to the storage every once in a while, or some bots going to resupply, if an exception is made in their case).

Your TradeBot can go to storage. otherwise it has to stay at its spot.
 
The not quoted rules do not specify anything remolty connected to the issue.
 
In this post http://www.eternal-l...=46217&p=467890 and in the ones below Radu said

You can trade with the bot at the storage but only if you are the owner. That way, you can unload the stuff the bot bought to your main character, or upload the stuff from your main charcter's storage to the bot for it to sell later on, when back at the spot.
The bot is not allowed to trade with anyone else there. Also, the visits to the storage should be kept short.


Yes, you can not use your bots to mule stuff. You can only transfer what the bot bought (for a fair market price, not for a nominal value from your guildies), or what it will sell.

These 2 Quotes specify 2 things as i see it.
 
A Radu allowes that bot owner trades bots at storage and allowes that stuff bought at fair marketprice goes into the owners inventory (whatever he does there its his buisness then) and he allowes that bots can get stuff onto his inventory for sale purpose (so no you cannot use the stuff on the bot that he hauled from storage to your place to mix on spot).
 
He does not specify anything about the storage to storage trades.
 
But basically as i see it is following questions.
 
Can stuff put on Storage by the Owner when only owner trades him, be illegal muling (In my opinion a clear no because only time bot can access the storage is when he is at storage again. and there only trade the bot owner with stuff that was traded there. so how can putting stuff from owners storage to bot storage and back be muling at all).

Second is it proofable if stuff put on bot during those 2 times visit at storage was intended for  sale (at any given time in the future) by the bot or just for safekeeping for the owner. (even if the owner retrives the stuff in the future). In my opinion, you can make a good estimate if it is the case or not, but its not proofable.
 
In the end i come to this conclusion while looking on the stuff i presented. neither in the

Gamerules nor in the Botrules  nor in what i see the spirit of the rules is anything that clearify this specific use of bots.

As the Price for a TradeBot and a StorageBot are the same, and both have their advantages and disatvantages in all their useage fields, that still exists if Tradebots (or also Guardbots) are used as storage. It is not deductable form the existens of the names for the bots if it is allowed or not.

Trades betweeb Botowners and Tradebots are allowed as long it does not help you to illegal mule. that is the spirit of the quote of the quote abrove from radu towards if tradebots are allowed to trade botowner at storage or not.

For me that means, unless it is specified as forbidden by a forum quote from someone who is speaking official as game represant, or better yet put into the rule section for everyone to read. If it is not forbidden it must be allowed.allowed.

 

So please Make an official Announement if its allowed or not. what i read here sounded all like speculation, that i could not follow based on the rules and other statements i read form official side. Or better said not read. The storage is not talked about in any rules.


Edited by vinoveritas, 25 March 2014 - 10:58 AM.





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