Jump to content


Photo

Korrode's Combat Guides


  • Please log in to reply
49 replies to this topic

#41 Korrode

Korrode

    Panda Bear

  • Members
  • 3848 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia

Posted 14 June 2011 - 03:41 PM

Fair enough. ^^

#42 SunriseCoder

SunriseCoder

    Skunk

  • Members
  • 108 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Germany

Posted 20 July 2011 - 11:47 AM

Hi Korrode!

Why are you always write phys/coords recommends? They are not influence to your character's abilities directly. They are influence with cross-attributes only.

May be better to recommend cross-attributes only? I think, main cross-attributes, which influence to player's abilities in combat are: Might, Toughness, Reaction and Dexterity.

There is 2 ways for getting each cross-attributes:
Might: Power of your hits, max EMU.
Physique - also increase Toughness, max EMU and max HP
Coordination - also increase Reaction, Max EMU and Dexterity (Chance to make a success hit to enemy).

Might define max EMU of your stuff to carry and power of hits (Makes more damage). If you will get much of Might - you will kill monsters too fast. Besides, less Might can't give you more EMU. Balance with Might as your choice. Look to 'Reaction' section to balance between Physique and Coordination.

Toughness: Reduce taken damage.
Physique - also increase Might, EMU and max HP
Vitality - also increase Max Mana Points and Charm.

I'm not summoner, and Charm is useless cross-attribute for me. Besides, Max HP is very useful for me for training and EMU for harvesting and haul (and taking HEs and SRs for training also). Better for me to fill up to full Physique first, then Vitality if I will need more Toughness. At first you obtain only 32 mana points max. It's not enough for few restorations in Invasion/Instance, especially when White Tigers like to 'reset Cooldown' at you. For my level a/d 80 is 64 mana points enough. What will be in future - I don't know, if will be any changes and I will want to get more mana - I will change it here (if I remember it :) lol).

Reaction: Chance to avoid from enemy's hit.
Coordination - also increase Might, Max EMU and Dexterity (Chance to make success hit).
Instinct - also increase Charm (I already wrote about useless of this cross-attribute for me) and Perception (Accuracy of Archery Shoots and Night Vision).

I'm not archer, but I'm harvesting a lot. For me more useful is Coordination, but on monsters with 60-70 attack (they have less defense) I had a lot of problems of I can kill monsters too fast with a lot of coordination and get not much exp from each monster. Besides, for Archer will be more useful Instinct, especially if you training at night for more experience and more accuracy.

Physique and Coordination. What to get more? They both increase Might - EMU and Power of your hits. Don't take them too much. You can makes more damage and kill monsters too fast. Coordination recommend to be more than Physique, because Coordination increase your chance to avoid to hit (Reaction) and get Defense exp of this hit, besides, Physique reduce your damage, you can get less damage, but you will not get def exp from these hits, which you are not avoided.

Dexterity: Chance to make successful hit.
Coordination - also increases Might, Max EMU and Reaction (chance to avoid enemy's hit).
Reasoning - also increases Perception(Accuracy of Archery and Night Vision) and Rationality(More exp, more fast reading book, more power of Spells).

If you are not Archer, better to give full Coordination for Dexterity at first. Perception goods for Archers, but Rationality goods for Mages only, because it can increase a bit exp of manufacturing, alchemy, crafting, etc... speed of books - It's useless because you need to read a lot of books at first time only. For example, I'm not reading books few months already. But if you will need Suddenly any books very fast - fast reading place is best for it :)

Total:
1. I think, better to give recommendation in 4 cross-attributes like Might, Toughness, Reaction and Dexterity (m/t/r/d) for all mobs. Toughness and Reaction for Resists to monsters, and Might to kill them faster, Dexterity for makes higher chance for successful hits (and get more attack exp).
2. Might can tune your speed of killing monsters. If you have not enough Might - you should to flee for get exp from one monsters when you stop to get exp in battle. If you have too much Might - you can kill them too fast, and can get only 30-60% of possible experience, which you could get of that monster. I think, better to give recommended level of Might for kill monster to finish levels, for example, train on fluffies until attack 105. It means, how much Might need for kill fluffie with 15 or so hits with attack 105. For less attack levels you can help sword or bone for make more damage.
3. You can balance of Might with getting more Coordination or Instinct - Coordination add Might, Instinct - not. If you need more Reaction and NOT more Might - you should to get Instinct, if you need more Reaction and Might - you should to get Coordination.
4. Dexterity - chance to make successful hit. I think, when monster stronger - you should to get more Dexterity to make him damage. Might is Power of your hits, Dexterity is Accuracy of your hits. Don't forget to get more Dexterity for success hits :)

UPD. I've got a big confusing with Might and Dexterity at first version of this post, please reread it before posting your replies :)

Edited by SunriseCoder, 20 July 2011 - 12:46 PM.


#43 Dugur

Dugur

    Deer

  • Members
  • 320 posts
  • Location:Finland

Posted 20 July 2011 - 02:45 PM

Can't talk for Korrode, but here's few cents.
Giving recommendations as cross attributes wouldn't serve the purpose of the guide. The guide is imo designed for those that prefer easy and foolproof way of leveling. If the recommendations were given based on cross attributes, you'd need to decide between the main attributes and then ppl would just ask Korrode or someone else which one to choose.
Also an important point in giving the attributes as they are is longevity. The mob ladder is fine tuned. If you just took reaction and spent pps in instinct instead of coordination, you'd be forced to grind longer for pps so that the future trainable monsters would be good. What comes to comments on might, the recommendations are well thought for. With the suggestions made by Korrode you will get as good exp as you can as a basic trainer, which is the basic segment the guide is designed for. Replacing an attribute with another will likely result in fail. If there was a better way to put pps for a basic trainer, we'd tell.

On a sidenote reaction and dexterity could also be ignored and given as recommended def lvl without buffs. If you want monster with rec pure def 100, you just add def+reaction+equipment bonus and decide what you need. It's just too much hassle to bother testing all mobs to give the pure def for decent blocks. Been there, it sucks.

#44 nathanstenzel

nathanstenzel

    Leopard

  • Members
  • 1594 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Programming and partying in real life.
    Manufacturing and helping newbs in game.

Posted 20 July 2011 - 04:56 PM

SunriseCoder,

I can't say I agree with Korrode about everything. We have argued about a number of things. Arguing with him in game can be kind of fun for me, in fact.

I will say one thing for Korrode. He does know alot about combat. I think most of his advice is meant for people who's main goal is to be a strong fighter. As for me, that is not my main concern, but raising my A/D has made it so I can mix in more places....and laugh as a fluffy and cyclops ignore me.

Phys/Coord are focussed on by fighters because of efficiency. Less pickpoints to get to the top monsters.

I don't know what your priorities are in the game. You might be a fighter that wants to power level till you can kill any monster or you might have other interests. You might be like me. I dunno. For me though (remember that fighting is not my main concern), the will attribute is also important. More precisely, the will attribute is the 3rd most important attribute. I use 20's will, 30's phys, 40's coord. I will raise will more after coord is maxed. By the way, I train on feros and fluffy and my stats are open to the public.

Edited by nathanstenzel, 20 July 2011 - 04:57 PM.


#45 Infect

Infect

    Deer

  • Members
  • 324 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Carolina

Posted 20 July 2011 - 08:37 PM

He hasn't only give p/c... The beginning of the post talks about the vit and starting reas. Throughout the guide he talks about increasing r/i/v. I know this guide isnt always mixer friendly, but what you can do is use el-cel and figure out what the cross attr's are and try and get as close to what is provided with your build. People who have invested in will instead of vit might want to think about increasing phys earlier to keep up the toughness or increase inst to also counteract the loss of toughness by trying to dodge more. People who have will builds should definitely think about eva perk (all fighters should) to help make your PP go farther. I am sure if you are interested in other ways of training a/d with a mixer build, I am sure there are plenty of people that can post a guide for that. Korrode has made an amazing guide, but not everyone will agree with it. I follow his guide almost to the tee except for i like 24/48 p/c on fluff/cyc. Does that make this build not suit me? no... I <3 what korrode has done with his research.

Keep it up!

#46 Korrode

Korrode

    Panda Bear

  • Members
  • 3848 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia

Posted 21 July 2011 - 01:51 AM

Giving recommendations as cross attributes wouldn't serve the purpose of the guide. The guide is imo designed for those that prefer easy and foolproof way of leveling. If the recommendations were given based on cross attributes, you'd need to decide between the main attributes and then ppl would just ask Korrode or someone else which one to choose.

this


edit:
and as some others touched on, the basic attribs being highly phys and coord oriented at the start is to use the minimum pp's required to achieve the might/tough/dex/react requirements.

Someone like yourself (Sunrise) who understands the attribute system well can calculate the cross-attribs that my basic-attrib recommendations would equate to and can, as you said, achieve them however they like.



edit2: completely off-topic...
i really need to clean up this guide, there's too many edited-in-comments strewn all through it.

Edited by Korrode, 21 July 2011 - 01:59 AM.


#47 SunriseCoder

SunriseCoder

    Skunk

  • Members
  • 108 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Germany

Posted 21 July 2011 - 04:11 AM

Someone like yourself (Sunrise) who understands the attribute system well can calculate the cross-attribs that my basic-attrib recommendations would equate to and can, as you said, achieve them however they like.


Yes, I can, it's not hardly, but there is one problem. I'm not good in combat, I'm 80s a/d and sometimes ask my guildmates what to use pickpoints for.

Your guide is really cool and helpful, but I'm harvesting a lot of Iron for hydro bars, and I try to have max of EMU. If I will calculate all cross-attributes of your recomendation, and will try to solve system of equations - I will get same base attributes as source. The problem is I don't know which cross-attributes is required for monster fight, and which attributes is NOT required.

PS. Yesterday I understood my mistake about 64 mana point is enough - it was not enough in yesterday our 60-80 inSTance. But for just training it's more than enough

PPS. Is there any guides for tank building - less attack level and very great defence level, for example, a/d 30/80 or more difference between attack and defence levels?

#48 Korrode

Korrode

    Panda Bear

  • Members
  • 3848 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia

Posted 21 July 2011 - 04:51 AM

The problem is I don't know which cross-attributes is required for monster fight, and which attributes is NOT required.

The Dexterity and Reaction are required. Accuracy and Defense from a weapon can affect it, but as described next, using a weapon is generally bad on a single spawn.

Up until MCW, the Might I suggest is to box them (no weapon). Boxing is best because barring just a couple of exceptions, equipping any weapon will increase the range of damage you can do, which is bad for consistent per-hit damage infliction.

Up until Yeti/Trice, the Toughness I suggest will, with suitable armor equipped, make u absorb all non-crit damage. So it's certainly not required at all, but it will reduce equipment breakages... and at Yeti and LOrc, it will make u sometimes absorb all non-crit, so it's still helping.

#49 SunriseCoder

SunriseCoder

    Skunk

  • Members
  • 108 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Germany

Posted 02 September 2011 - 08:59 AM

It's been brought to my attention that the Polar Bear had a stats change and is now stronger. Until someone who understands combat well tests training it and lets me know the deal, it's stricken from the guide.

I know, polar bears are 70/70 a/d now.
I've killed 1k them after ogres. I was bored when I started to kill ogres too fast.
Polar Bears was my rescue after ogres started to ignore me.

I can't give any recommendations about p/c for polar bears, but I think, it should be enough like ogres (20/28).
I can't test it, because I'm overhead now and preparing to jump to fluffies.

#50 LongMustache

LongMustache

    Skunk

  • Members
  • 114 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lithuania
  • Interests:Mustache shaping.

Posted 15 December 2011 - 08:14 AM


It's been brought to my attention that the Polar Bear had a stats change and is now stronger. Until someone who understands combat well tests training it and lets me know the deal, it's stricken from the guide.

I know, polar bears are 70/70 a/d now.
I've killed 1k them after ogres. I was bored when I started to kill ogres too fast.
Polar Bears was my rescue after ogres started to ignore me.

I can't give any recommendations about p/c for polar bears, but I think, it should be enough like ogres (20/28).
I can't test it, because I'm overhead now and preparing to jump to fluffies.


I would put them somewhere in between ogres and armed fem. orcs. I would suggest going to polar bears after ogres and just skip armed orcs, as they do lotsa criticals and are expensive to train on.

im 72/77 a/d and im still at polars getting 250k OA exp/hour and will probably stick here til 85def and head straight for fluffs.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users