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#1 Enly

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 03:07 AM

As some of you may or may not have noticed, there have been a couple additions to the histories and reference guides section of the stories forums. Information on Languages and and The Curse of Mortos has been added, and the information on Gods and Magic has been updated/re-written.

It's highly encouraged that all writers authorized for official writing to read over all the guides in that section, at the very least the ones pertaining to any topic your story may entail. And any aspiring authors would do good to read over them as well.

And the description of The Curse is a MUST read for all authors I think, things have been changed around a bit due to issues the original curse idea created with writing. So even if you think you know it all, a bit of reading time might do you good :whistle: So please read up on it and become enlightened.

A couple notes on the curse;

According to the timeline of Draia its only been around for a few years, so think about time when you're working on your story! Did it happen in the past years 5-6 years? If it did the curse would exist, if it was longer ago than that, the curse hadn't been placed yet and the world was 'normal'. Just keep that in mind as you're writing :)

As you'll notice if you read the guide, the curse ONLY effects monsters now. No animals, no people. Thats pretty much the biggest change.

Thats about it for the curse, please read the guide and make sure you're aware of how it works when you're writing your story!

The goal is for these guides to be updated and added to and new ones created as needed. With every story more is established about the world and its hard to keep track of it all. If everyone will read over the guides and follow their general ideas we can all be sure of continuity between our stories. If you write something about someone casting a spell, make sure you've read the magic guide and it fits the information there.

If you have any ideas for other guides/references that could be beneficial you can go ahead and post them here, it may be a good idea and maybe someone should work on it :) Also, if you see anything wrong with any of the current ones, from typos to conflicts with each other or stories, post here too. These guides need to be right and updated.

Again, if you're an approved author, please take the time to read over them.
And keep an eye open for new posts in that section in case more guides get added :)

#2 Aphistolas

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 08:50 PM

The only part I have some concerns about is the curse not being pertinent to people. Someone would have to explain why we have an underworld, why we can access it with dying, yet not be affected I think :confused:

#3 Enly

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 09:34 PM

The point of the change in the curse was to get rid of the fact that it affects people, because this was very difficult for stories and created unncessary obstacles.

It IS a game, its expected that when you die your character isn't dead forever, that's something that doesn't neccesarily need to be explained away by storylines ;)

There has to be a line drawn between the game and the stories, or the stories are very difficult to write and wouldn't turn out as well because they're forced to follow rules of a gaming world.

The curse is only affecting monsters because it creates a problem in the world, making something that many stories can be about, and fits well somewhat with the game. But there is no need to explain the underworld and going there and coming back such as we do ingame, because that's something to be expected from a game, and it doesn't need to be in stories, the world of stories for EL can be slightly different from the game ;)

Afterall, if we had to match the game perfectly we couldn't have horses in stories... only recently would we be allowed bows and arrows... etc. I hope you see what I'm saying that at some point there has to be a line between the game and the stories, because they simply can't match perfectly.

So the curse only affects monsters, and there is no need to explain away the underworld through storylines, that is a feature necessary for the game, but doesn't necessarily need to be embedded in storylines. It just causes too many problems, and there really isn't a good way to explain it away and still have good stories with lots of options. Immortal characters just don't work out to well :confused:

Edited by Enly, 19 June 2008 - 09:35 PM.


#4 Aphistolas

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 10:43 AM

I disagree, I believe all aspects of EL (at least the one's that aren't obviously non-RP [[See: Omlinor Huts]]) should be explained through story. Call me old fashioned, but I'm under the belief if you start something you should do a properly thorough job of it. Of course, the writers at EL (including yourself :P ) have done an excellent job of explaining many points of these great Lands, and I don't see why it would be so hard to explain. Actually, I have a story in mind that would pretty much explain the Underworld completely unrelated to the Curse... I think I'll draw up a framework and submit it for approval sometime :)

Also, in some games your character does die forever and you need to start anew. We already have an explanation of Rostogol Stones and their origin, I believe an explanation of what happens when one dies is in order if that story is present.

Hmmm... I think I even have a cool name ;)

#5 Sayre

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 10:52 AM

I actually thought it was called the Eternal Lands BECAUSE of the curse that afflicts the resident humanoid races, that being the non-death.

I am not saying this is right, I am just saying that was my impression given the name and the NPC info and other cues in game and out.

S.

Ah yes, http://www.eternal-l...showtopic=10975 (thanks Aphistolas)

Mortos: The God of Death, Destruction and Evil. He strove to ruin the creation of life in the Eternal Lands from the beginning and constantly plots to destroy it. That kind of suicidal hatred of everything is difficult to comprehend for many. But Mortos is old. He decided a very long time ago that he wished not to exist, wished to forego the agony of reason. Long before, and long after the tiny lives of mortals he will still be here, and he doesn't want to be. There could be no greater torture than to be immortal and hate your very existence. To see these tiny beings, with that ability to die, to cease existence, flit past him as a sparrow flits past a man... he hates it, hates the reminder that afflicts him in every moment of every day. To destroy it would perhaps dim his pain. Aided and abetted by Selain and his minions, he nurtures terror and war among the unsuspecting races whenever possible and using whatever means necessary to achieve his end. Every day he calls out to the wickedness and evil he planted in the natures of the mortals, cajoling them to murder, to war, to corrupt and destroy. In his latest, greatest achievement, he placed a curse upon the Lands during the Great War, turning the majority of the populace into undying immortals like himself, that we may understand his agony.


You may want to edit this ;) Especially given that (from the last post in that thread)

This is now the master copy for information about the Gods.


Cheers, S.

Edited by Spleenie, 20 June 2008 - 11:23 AM.


#6 Roja

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 12:21 PM

I disagree, I believe all aspects of EL (at least the one's that aren't obviously non-RP [[See: Omlinor Huts]]) should be explained through story.


You can disagree all you want, but we're not here to explain why your stuff goes in a bag when you drop it and the bags are all facing the same direction, why it takes only some minutes to cross an entire continent, why you can't swim, run, ride animals, etc, etc...the list goes on. There is the GAME WORLD, and there is the STORY WORLD. They will have the majority in common, but there are going to be also a lot of differences for the sake of writing a good story. I'm not going to compromise stories just to explain away game stuff.


@Spleen-that's an old thread. All the official stories are in the Official sub forum sections.

#7 Aphistolas

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 12:43 PM

You can disagree all you want, but we're not here to explain why your stuff goes in a bag when you drop it and the bags are all facing the same direction, why it takes only some minutes to cross an entire continent, why you can't swim, run, ride animals, etc, etc...the list goes on. There is the GAME WORLD, and there is the STORY WORLD. They will have the majority in common, but there are going to be also a lot of differences for the sake of writing a good story. I'm not going to compromise stories just to explain away game stuff.


That's precisely why I said 'obviously non-RP'. There is no easy way to explain these things, but there wouldn't be as much difficultly involved in explaining the UW.

@Thread: Shouldn't it have been moved to the Official thread? Or was Lyanna not a moderator back then? (before I played EL, I wouldn't know.) It's a very nifty article, and a perfect frame for stories.

#8 Roja

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 01:00 PM

Aphistolas: Please check the Official sub forum sections.

#9 Sayre

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 01:05 PM

Aphistolas: For your reference: http://www.eternal-l...showtopic=29664

S.

#10 Aphistolas

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 02:04 PM

I have already checked both that board, and threads, but thanks for bringing them back up (especially Spleenie, I haven't read that in awhile, forgot it existed) :P

I was looking, specifically, for official information on the Overdeity, and possible pre-common-era Gods. But no matter, if I do get a framework for this out I'll PM one of you for approval before posting :)

#11 Enly

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 03:25 PM

But no matter, if I do get a framework for this out I'll PM one of you for approval before posting :)

If you're still considering a framework for some sort of story to explain the underworld and death in the game, I would recommend you put your time into better things :P

We've pretty much decided the curse is going to be this way (if we hadn't decided, we wouldn't have posted).

It was changed in the first place due to complications that arose from the underworld and undying characters for writers, sure, it may seem easy to 'explain' it, that's why it once was explained. What's not so easy is writing a decent story once it has been explained :)

We've grouped the underworld and dying in with bags dropping, instantaneous travel between continents, walking huge maps in minutes, etc.

And I'm fairly certain that the curse isn't going to be changed completely around once again. This wasn't an arbitrary decision just this week, this was a concept quite awhile in the making that is already being worked into coming stories.

#12 Roja

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 03:39 PM

But no matter, if I do get a framework for this out I'll PM one of you for approval before posting :)

If you're still considering a framework for some sort of story to explain the underworld and death in the game, I would recommend you put your time into better things :P


Yes, I really hate to see people waste their time on things that won't ever be used. We have a pinned topic in the main story forum: http://www.eternal-l...showtopic=32191
You can read stuff there if you're interested in writing.

#13 Aphistolas

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 03:44 PM

I don't see the major problem with the UW: I'm not trying to get every single feature in game explained in-depth, and there is precedent behind a story about the UW. It wouldn't be, at all, as hard to explain as virtually instantaneous travel, or any of the other things you mentioned.

Also, I was just thinking there, what was the point in changing the Curse anyway? I liked it when it was subjective, people viewed and interpreted it in different ways, solidifying it in a single person's eyes will kill off some good stories to come, in my opinion.

If we're going to be totally strict about this; shouldn't all reference to 'bags' or anything strictly non-RP (that is, something that conflicts) be removed/censored?

I'd like to see what the other people think about this, it would be interesting to see how others view the Curse.

@Roja: I've consolidated that list many times, and I have (or had, on my old laptop :) ) written some stories for there. They are -- were (again :P ) -- incomplete however. Could you add some fresh new ideas to it? I'm interested in writing for one of the sub-boards, but the current choice is a bit thin.

Edit: Word choice is off today...

Edited by Aphistolas, 20 June 2008 - 03:47 PM.


#14 Roja

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 03:59 PM

I don't see the major problem with the UW: I'm not trying to get every single feature in game explained in-depth, and there is precedent behind a story about the UW. It wouldn't be, at all, as hard to explain as virtually instantaneous travel, or any of the other things you mentioned.

We decide whether a story is needed or not. You're free to make suggestions, but arguing and arguing isn't going to get you any farther.


Also, I was just thinking there, what was the point in changing the Curse anyway

Enly answered your question above. Please reread her post.


If we're going to be totally strict about this; shouldn't all reference to 'bags' or anything strictly non-RP (that is, something that conflicts) be removed/censored?


No that would just be silly.

I'd like to see what the other people think about this, it would be interesting to see how others view the Curse.

Again, arguing isn't going to help. We've made changes to the storyline, this is how it's going to be. End of discussion.

@Roja: I've consolidated that list many times, and I have (or had, on my old laptop :) ) written some stories for there.


I'm curious to know why you just went off and wrote stories without following the directions listed in the pinned topics there? I really don't want you writing any official stories if you can't even follow some simple instructions.
If we have new stories for people to write we will post them.

#15 Aphistolas

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 04:09 PM

Who's arguing? This is a discussion :)

And for the reason behind this, I don't see it anything more than 'we're doing it because we can' decision. Not saying that it's poorly thought out, I just think it's a pointless obscuring change. I don't see any particularly huge obstacles the old Curse brought in, I'm sure there are ways around the whole no-dying thing. In fact, I think the new Curse specifications actually confines stories, but whatever you have decided.

And, fyi, I usually get bored with one project and start another. I did have a range of stories saved on my computer from a wide range of fandoms, I pick them to write for fun, but I don't show them to anyone. Please don't assume I didn't read the instructions; I did, and I understand them, hence why I never posted any of the (even nearly complete) stories I created on my old computer.

Curiosity didn't kill the cat, but assumptions are lethal!

Edited by Aphistolas, 20 June 2008 - 04:11 PM.


#16 Enly

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 04:31 PM

And for the reason behind this, I don't see it anything more than 'we're doing it because we can' decision. Not saying that it's poorly thought out, I just think it's a pointless obscuring change.

This wasn't an arbitrary decision just this week, this was a concept quite awhile in the making that is already being worked into coming stories.

It's not a doing it because we can decision, like I already posted, its a concept quite awhile in the making, been discussed thoroughly and thought through from the perspective of story writers, I've tried to explain the reasons here, I'm sorry if you haven't been able to understand them. But there's always things going on backstage that the observer doesn't notice, and it was decided that changing the curse was the best choice for story-lines. We know what we're doing, seriously :) Rest assured that it is not a just because we can random choice, it HAS been thought through and HAS been explained. I could write an essay throughly detailing the history of the change and why. Unfortunately I would prefer to let my simple explanations suffice, and spend the bulk of my time working on actually writing stories that will better explain this curse. :P

I don't see any particularly huge obstacles the old Curse brought in, I'm sure there are ways around the whole no-dying thing. In fact, I think the new Curse specifications actually confines stories, but whatever you have decided.

Perhaps it confines stories with a broad concept of looking at ideas and abstract ideals. But to write a cement, 'realistic' story, it doesn't work out, as I have stated. It will work out fine with the curse the way it it, and there are stories beyond count that can be written about Draia, curse or no curse.

And actually, to some extent I do agree with you that it confines stories somewhat, and I do see where you are coming from on some of your points, but this is for the greater good. No sacrifice, no victory :P It'll work out, this is for the best.

Who's arguing? This is a discussion :)

Well hopefully you saw Roja's post in which she stated "End of discussion" this decision has been made, and good for you for standing up for your points :) But we've put a lot of thought and time into this change, it won't be changing back :)

Edited by Enly, 20 June 2008 - 04:39 PM.


#17 Acelon

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 04:31 PM

Aphistolas, I felt the same way when we first discussed changing the curse around, but in reality, how does it affect gameplay? It doesn't. I got over it, because I realized it was for the greater good of storylines.

#18 Pyewacket

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Posted 21 June 2008 - 09:22 AM

I have already checked both that board, and threads, but thanks for bringing them back up (especially Spleenie, I haven't read that in awhile, forgot it existed) :D

I was looking, specifically, for official information on the Overdeity, and possible pre-common-era Gods. But no matter, if I do get a framework for this out I'll PM one of you for approval before posting :D


You will find very little on this subject and deliberately so. Its an area of the storylines that Officially remains obscure, and as far as I am given to understand, will remain so. No more than vague hints apparently, should ever be used with regards to the Overdeity, and nothing should ever be written that removes that obscurity. That is not to say that an occasional plot theme cannot include a character in a story acting as an agent for the Overdeity, but even so, the reference should not be direct and blatantly obvious that this is the case. It will make for easier approval of a story from Roja if this was remembered and followed, I am sure, than anything which directly "unveils the Great Ones hand".

#19 Aphistolas

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Posted 21 June 2008 - 09:57 AM

Thanks for the advice Pye, but apparently I'm not allowed to post even the frame :D so I'll need to find something else to occupy my time.

#20 peino

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 02:02 AM

Just finished reading the new curse description. Questions:

-- How does this affect collecting monster parts, like bones? You describe how the monsters appear dead and then flesh, skin, etc, "reform" when they resurrect. So, does that mean we can "kill" them and take them apart -- take their bones as well as anything else -- and then describe them magically regrowing the parts we took?

-- How does this affect summoning? I haven't really dealt with summoning, except mentioning that Peino is prejudiced against it, so please correct me if I'm wrong. Summoned monsters are made from dead animal parts as well as magical ingredients, right? In stories, since the monsters don't really die, I guess we shouldn't say summoners raise dead orcs or whatever, right? How about that summoners create new, short-lived monsters out of dead normal creatures -- like summoning fluffies using normal white rabbit skins. This would keep the stories close to the game. But it would suggest things about who has the power to make monsters, etc. (I'm remembering my just-for-fun fluffy rabbit story.)




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