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Hi,

 

we had yesterday again a discussion of how to create money sinks. Best money sinks, are 1-time use items so that gc doesn't get rotated but actually taken out of the game.

 

Another suggestion to create such a money sink would be the feature of a guild storage. To maintain the access to that guild storage there would be a monthly ingame fee of XXXXX gc which has to be in the storage at the time of payment otherwise the storage will be disabled and needs to be unlocked through an NPC (slight higher charge) again.

 

The access to the guild storage would be like accessing any other sto (maybe a tab in the sto window to switch between own personal sto and guild sto). (Also hazard sto for guild hazards!)

 

This storage is not a BOT! Its just a game feature as the normal storage.

 

Only members of the same guild can access same storage. This means for the database just 1 additional storage per guild. Maybe one can even link that to a certain member size of the guild ... but with alts ... meh!

 

To give some of the unused guild ranks more sense one could make that only certain guild ranks have access to the storage, that way guilds can prevent some abuse or getting robbed by new members ;)

 

As this is a service/ingame feature, ingame gc will be taken out of the game at a monthly rate. At the same time this feature might make bigger guilds more attractive, thus preventing the creation of multiple smaller guilds (less mess :) ).

 

And as this will be a feature, if you don't like it, you don't need to use it!

 

My main motivation for this was to enhance guild activities and common projects, as well as find a way the whole guild can profit from the guild wealth. At the same time those storages don't function as bots, so radu still can sell trade bots as usual.

 

So share your opinion, with me please. Maybe I have overseen something how that can be misused, if so please list it here and we can think about it.

Also tell me if you like that idea and why!

 

Kind regards

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The idea in itself looks nice at first glance, but...

 

1- Easy enough to implement something like it with a few alts since interactions with alts are allowed. That also gives the option to separate the storage for different projects

 

2- I can see the endless wrangling about who is going to fund that storage within the guild. The more so as only a part of the members would benefit. Then think of what's going to happen after the store gets locked and needs _even_more_ gc to get unlocked. In the mean time everything in that store is unavailable, so the players that did use it and put in stuff might think twice to do so again after it finally gets unlocked.

 

3- It's very easy to have a guild getting robbed of everything in the guild storage that way (anyone remembers the spartan_warrior / LNX guild story?). Allowing only certain ranks access would help, but still.

 

4- Looks like something that's not all that easy to code, for a doubtful benefit (see above).

 

And please don't assume anything about how data are stored, you might get surprised (hint: the way things are stored also explains part of why we don't get more storage slots).

 

Add to that, that the older/bigger guilds that felt a need for such a system already have guild storage bots (which are NOT trade bots either), and we end up with a feature that's nice in theory, but not necessarily going to see much use in practice.

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The current system of guild storage bots is sufficient:

- It helps radu get $$

- It is independent of guilds, though guilds can have one, with good control and logging of who puts-in/takes-out what. Your idea does not seem to include any such logging, which in my opinion is essential.

- This idea would cause the creation of a zillion one-player guilds, just to get more sto slots and ease trading with your alts :P

- I would very much prefer to have more storage slots for my main char (for gc would be great, willing to pay a hefty monthly gc fee).

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1- Easy enough to implement something like it with a few alts since interactions with alts are allowed. That also gives the option to separate the storage for different projects

Can I take it from that, that it is allowed to have an alt whose password is shared amongst the guild for the purpose of having a guild storage?

 

2- I can see the endless wrangling about who is going to fund that storage within the guild. The more so as only a part of the members would benefit. Then think of what's going to happen after the store gets locked and needs _even_more_ gc to get unlocked. In the mean time everything in that store is unavailable, so the players that did use it and put in stuff might think twice to do so again after it finally gets unlocked.

The idea is that the storage is funded by the guild, not by certain guildies. This includes e.g. to host guild events (strengthens the bond within the guild to raise money, or use drop money from neno/badaran hunts done by guild)

The idea of a guild storage is, so that items from higher level players such as drop book can be offered towards lower levels, or good armor can be shared and used (so far this guildie currently holding that items needs to come/be online in order another can use it).

Simple, if it gets locked, unlock it, if a guild can't afford that, better think twice if that guild wants to use that feature. Every (smaller) guild still can say it won't use that feature, maybe others want to for the reasons I have just mentioned a few lines ago.

 

3- It's very easy to have a guild getting robbed of everything in the guild storage that way (anyone remembers the spartan_warrior / LNX guild story?). Allowing only certain ranks access would help, but still.

The will never ever be a 100% sure solution to players with bad thoughts. I have read into that story, bad/sad thing but where there is trust there is always the possibility to misuse that trust. Making common hyperbags are also prone to be misused, even when I do a personal trade with a player I can just ask for lending a NMT and vanish ;)

And as you have noticed I suggested some ways to minimize that such things happen too easy, yet you can never be 100% sure that they don't.

 

4- Looks like something that's not all that easy to code, for a doubtful benefit (see above).

I can't state of how much effort into coding that would be. Unless we know how things are implemented behind the scenes we all have to assume certain structures. If anyone here KNOWING this, please let us know how much effort that would be!!

 

 

The current system of guild storage bots is sufficient:

- It helps radu get $$

I am addressing the problem of creating another money sink. Not how radu can pay the servers. If those two interests conflict with each other then I would like to hear that from him! I have no idea how much he ears from sto bots and if the tradeoff with a money sink is more important to him (money sink btw also can mean that people will buy more $-items so get back money, thus bringing it into game again).

 

I haven't suggested the amount of the fee yet, so choosing the right amount could result in a nice equilibrium of money put into the game and money taken out of it - consider this as an adjusting screw.

 

- It is independent of guilds, though guilds can have one, with good control and logging of who puts-in/takes-out what. Your idea does not seem to include any such logging, which in my opinion is essential.

Correct me if I'm wrong, so far I only know that this system is accessible to guild that have someone who pays $$ for it. I don't know if radu also accepts gc (converted ratio) for that. Besides the sto bot has to be summoned and thus if anyone wants to use it, a guild member with the rights has to be online. My suggestions makes the storage to all guildies at all sto available yet limits access to certain items through ranks.

Not sure what for the logging is good, besides to see WHO stole something -> yet it doesn't prevent it.

If the sto bot has some sort of logging, if it is wanted it also should be possible to introduce some kind of logging into my suggestion of a guild storage.

 

- This idea would cause the creation of a zillion one-player guilds, just to get more sto slots and ease trading with your alts :P

The contrary effect would happen. As a one player guild you also would have to pay those fees yourself. As mentioned in my first post, I rather assume that my suggestion results in less small guilds, as new players might be attracted to join a bigger guild with that feature. Less overall guilds = less data stored on server.

 

- I would very much prefer to have more storage slots for my main char (for gc would be great, willing to pay a hefty monthly gc fee).

An additional way to create a further money sink. I don't see a reason why my suggestion and this idea should exclude one and another.

 

Thanks to revi and Maxine so far for their input thus making a discussion of this idea possible :)

 

Further ideas, opinions and/or alternations are welcomed.

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1. Yes indeed, you can create and share an alt in the guild, and that is by far the simpler way of doing this

2. Why pay gc for something that can be done for free (with a shared alt)

3. Whos gc are you trying to sink? It is the individual players that are rich in gc, not the guilds.

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1. Yes indeed, you can create and share an alt in the guild, and that is by far the simpler way of doing this

So you tell me here that it is allows within the game rules and by radu that a guild has an alt in order to have a guild storages, whereas radu could sell storage bots?? Sorry if I ask that again and again, but it just sounds a bit unreal to me.

If you are right and it is the case then I agree with you that this is a nice alternative for guilds.

 

2. Why pay gc for something that can be done for free (with a shared alt)

So why is Radu selling storage bots then??

 

3. Whos gc are you trying to sink? It is the individual players that are rich in gc, not the guilds.

The guilds gc I want to sink :). I don't know about your guild and can only tell from mine. Current state is that my

guild has some spare gc rotting at the moment. I am sure a guild storage would give a common guild feature (give some guild ranks a meaning) from which every guildie can profit (thus all guildies feel responsible too keep that feature alive). In such a storage drop books, shared top level armor etc can be stored and made accessible to guildies at all times (according to rank level).

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So why is Radu selling storage bots then??

 


Storage bots like a lot of items which are not useful now were created before rules changed removing rule #5.

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Storage bots are still useful and one way to support the game. However, since rule 5 was removed, they are no longer the only way a guild can have a common storage.

 

Using a shared alt for items that you mentioned is an excellent alternative.

If your guild has too much gc, maybe they can make a contribution to the global quest or GIWS instead. Not only benefits the guildies but all of EL.

 

None of the guilds I have ever been in (7 up to now, several of them I still have ;) ) suffered from too much gc, we did collect drop books and shared items, usually with one or more (guild) storage bots running on Dogbreath's service (Now Sir_Odie).

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Well,

 

 

Using a shared alt for items that you mentioned is an excellent alternative.


So this is permitted by radu?

 

 

:confused: Two moderators suggested shared alts as an alternative to your guild storage, so I guess now your only option to get a satisfactory (or at least definite) answer is to contact radu directly... :whistle:

Edited by revi

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You already name it revi ;) I want a definite answer. From whom? I don't care if its Radu or any moderator.

 

Suggesting that "robbing a bank" is an alternative to earning your money by working is a statement too, but its not legal by the laws (at least in my country ;).

 

So what really would satisfy me is quoting my question as you have done and writing beneath it: "yes" (from Radu or ANY moderator).

 

And then I'd be happy with closing that thread :)

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Are you (related to) robotchicken?

 

Maxine and revi both ARE moderators and they both already said yes.

Actually revi was the one pointing the possibility of a shared alt out to you. That's even more than a yes.

 

How much more clear can it get? :confused:

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1. Yes indeed, you can create and share an alt in the guild, and that is by far the simpler way of doing this

Sometimes it is wise to re-read posts of a thread. Maxine has already mentioned here a defined clear "yes".

I didn't keep that in mind and just re-read all posts again as Finja/revi pointed me out to that.

Sorry for any inconvenience caused !!!

 

So this indeed satisfies me and I'm done with the topic now. (Any moderator can close this now if wanted) :)

 

Kind regards

 

PS: I am not robotchicken ;)

 

Edit: Just got also an answer from Radu:

[PM from radu: ok, but if you get scammed, don't come to the mods]

Edited by MannyNZ

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