Your Ideas/suggestions About The Update Changes

[Catweasel]

Although this latest update will be a hard pill to swallow for many people that have built their character/s specifically for potion, essence or manufacturing it does make the commodities a lot more realistic. My gravest fear is that the changes will allow the people who have stockpiled ores, essences etc in storage since the big crash will now become the uber elite rich of the community these people know now that they can control the economy and force the rest of us n00b peasants into abject poverty while we whi;e away the day making 15 steel bars.

 

I wonder if the gods will be angry when the online population no longer bring them tithes in exchange for their immortal blessings

[Platyna]

RANT:

Lyanna: 10 second for fruit for level 60?...MUST RESISTS TO FLAME...EEEK...okay it is gone UFF.

Harvest is base skill, it should be back to as it was. I am a Newbie Helper here, and besides my job and

my guild friends I am only playing to make jewelry. It is the one thing I do in game. I want to make

houndreds or rings because it is funny for me to make myself a goal and patiently go to it. My goal is

level 70 of crafting. I want it, I WANT IT, I need 3000 sapphires to get level 61, during two hours I have

harvested 300 sapphires, there is no market for polished sapphires, it is dead item like many others that

can't be sold and people drop them on the ground like diamonds and ALOT ALOT OF OTHER ITEMS

of course developers thinks it is more imprtant to degrading market of items to few things, there are

currently like 12-15 items that are sold/bought. Count how many items we have in game this is a sane

economy?...MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!...errr...okay *cough* excuse me.

Ah Lyanna will tell Role Playing etc., in this game Role Playing doesn't exist. We are talking, leveling

organizing contests - we kinda live like normal medieval society, it is kinda sane, in medieval cities most

important thing was production and economy. Now when production and economy is slaughtered like a

pig (sorry I really can't find other methaphore, feel free to edit it if you don't like this one) we kinda have

no sense to play this game, harvest is base skill, you hurt harvest you kill economy and production.

We say: We are Alchemists, Jewellers, Fighters - we deeply believe we are while playing this game this is

RP a'la Eternal Lands, don't take it from us. Now half of my guild want to quit the game, they are my

best in game friends there is no point to play this game if they will leave I just tried to get them back, I

was sending them emails to come back here and play, they did. Harvesting changes will not help the

economy, it will only ruin it because people will prefer buy stuff from shops, also it will ruin the community

completly because no one want to spend hours on harvesting required materials, harvesting is clicking

constantly in on place and I'd like to do anything else too in game and I am probably not the only one.

If you, developers care about the game and see a change which will affect the community in negative way

don't implement it. That game itself is kinda boring the community is really flavour if this game, look, since

almost a year economy is screwed up badly, there were two major resets but people are still playing but

one day their patience will be over and no matter what you will do that game will die. So don't let it to

happen.

 

My suggestion (I think it is pointless because no one ever were listening to my suggestions even if I was

several times right in major things): Autoclicker on the server but harvesting speed like it used to be +

failure rate which is of course anyway afftect that speed without any special changes.

 

Regards.

Edited November 23, 2004 by Platyna

[dns_server]

For the next update, could you post what you propose two days or more before you apply it, this would allow discussion and probly less flames, as it allows everyone to calmly discuss the situation, evaluate the inpact, and determine how it will effect the economy.

 

how about testing updates on the testing server first, and tell us all to test it for you before you apply it, then we can discover the impacts before it is too late.

1. There was a poll at the top of this forum for several days.

 

2. All future updates are tested on the test server. Port 2001.

i know there was The Poll which started with:

Just wondering. In case, you know . . . we were going to put this in . . . or something. Just hypothetically, of course . . .

it says nothing about actually imlimenting the new feature how it will be implemented and what does "Don't Click Teh B34rs, they will eat you" have to do with a new harvesting system????

 

I just suggest createing a new thread that has proposed changes to the economy, and clearly state it as Proposed changes with a clear to read heading for the topic, this would allow us to discuss the changes a little more clearly, with a lot more thaught so we don't get supprised by the updates.

[Platyna]

Especially that the majority of people voted: NONE, NONE, NONE *NONE*

So what is the point of making polls if no one cares about our opinion anyway? I am asking seriously.

 

Regards.

[Lyanna]

I just suggest createing a new thread that has proposed changes to the economy, and clearly state it as Proposed changes with a clear to read heading for the topic, this would allow us to discuss the changes a little more clearly, with a lot more thaught so we don't get supprised by the updates.

While that's probably a good suggestion, keep in mind that it could be abused to some extent, because players may start anticipating the changes and destabilise the economy/game balance (by stockpiling, for example). Then the changes may not have the predicted effects. Surprise may sometimes (not always, but occasionally) be the best way to go about it, even though it will suck for the majority of the players.

 

-Lyn-

[Itami]

Ok I will admit that I haven't played in a few weeks and haven't experienced this new update.

 

But it's made me realized a disturbing trend in all the updates. Compounding negative things to weed out macroing with no balancing out to return funness for the good players. It seems the developers have been so wrapped up in catching cheaters they've lost sight of the most important feature of a game, it has to be fun.

 

little things like breaking pickaxes and leather gloves to harvest sulphur is fine.

 

Bigger things like more items requiring EFE, slowing down harvesting/manufacturing, etc need positive changes to balance them out.

 

-How about making EFE slightly more likely to occur.

-Increase what trik buys but reduce the prices, constantly cutting back on what he buys never made any sense since he supposed to be arming an army.

-Make it so neg effects like health damage are less likely to occur, but keep teleporting but only to a few squares away.

 

Compounding on the neg stuff may drive out the cheaters, but everyone else will be leaving as well. And if nobody plays at all then what was the point?

 

Making harvesting insanely hard and making manufacturing incrediably tedious drives out at least a 1/3 of the EL population. After that the strick fighters who relied on the manufacturers for potions and armor will leave as they'll have no aid. That leaves pretty much no one except for maybe the people who don't really play but just sit around and chat.

 

Wouldn't it just be much simpler to force the server to save and boot everyone once per hour? That would knock out the majority of macroing and if each boot was given a 5 min warning it would give everyone bag manufacturing plenty of time to pick up dump their stuff into storage so it wouldn't be lost. This with server side old style autoharvesting(1/sec) would probably make everyone happy.

[scarr]

I love the New #beam me up

i havnt tryed the harvest out yet.. but im a fighter :-)

 

EFE's in tit long/serp is great!! Yeh selling 10 serpents and 30 tit longs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

$$$$

[Platyna]

About other changes:

- Autoharvest - yes, splendid idea. Time interval - NO.

- Leather gloves for sulphur - of course sulphur is toxic mineral it burns skin!

- EFE for titanium long and titanium armor - ROTFL, NO. Serp stone for all titanium items - yes

These items are used in training purposes, they are supposed to be breakable and cheap, not too cheap

of course but cheap. Serp stone since they are not rare would give significiant balance of prices for

titanium items.

- EFE AND serp stone for serps - of course, serpent sword is still the best weapon in game it should be

RARE, EXPENSIVE AND PAIN TO MAKE.

- 2 EFE for iron plate, well I can't see anything that will be fixed with that change so I rather don't care.

- Platinum coins? Learner you should pat yourself in your head my friend, I really love you (as a friend)

but you are incredible today. 900 gc for a platinum coins and 1100? Make NPCs so scam players is

you way to take money out the game? What example they give 11 y.o. kids who are playing this game?

Gold and platinum coins should be like dollars an cents like it used to be. Simple and w/o scamming.

- Demigod - cool finaly PK contests with summoned monsters *drolls*

 

Regards.

Edited November 23, 2004 by Platyna

[Guest Brindle]

I have only been playing for about two weeks now and have enjoyed the game so far. I do have one suggestion for the harvesting portion to eliminate autoers. If you make the minerals in the mines active for only a certain amount of clicks then have them disappear and pop up in a random area players could no longer use autominers to gather materials unless they are present. As for the flowers make them active for the same amount of clicks then go inactive for a random amount of time this would also make it less likely for players to auto harvest. The new setup is way too slow and takes most of the interactivity out of the game.

[erikas]

Only idea - keep it as is. I really like this new update.

At last things will get their real value. For example, what need in iron sword, if you can easily get money, making essences, and buy a serp?

[Tidus]

i like all alot of the new updates put on, but i dont really like the auto harvesting. Reason 1: The autoharving has a big gap between each harvest. 2: the autoharving can have people taking advantage of it and start afk harvesting. It would be good if the harvesting could be taken back to how it originally was.

[Platyna]

It encourages macroing. Example:

My guildie is alchemy level 53, his rival alchemy level 83. Since my friend is very ambitious he decided to

be better in alchemy than his rival at 83. Alot of friendly (or not) rivalizations is in this game, they are

IMHO cool, it makes people work toghether and help their friends to win. IT IS COOL. But now my

friend can't stand a chance and he will loose. Why? Only because his rival started alchemy before that

evil change. I am asking again: What moral values that change brings to the game and what contibutes

to the community?

 

Regards.

[Buuhan1]

i don't know what we are gonna do

Edited November 23, 2004 by Buuhan1

[Metraxis]

OK, time for me to weigh in.

 

Big Issue #1: This is a Beta. We, as players, are asked to submit ideas for the actual formulae used to determine what happens in the game (Poll by Cicero). At the same time, we are not allowed to know what formulae actually get implemented (forum comment by Learner)., based on the idea that somehow this makes the game less interesting.

 

Relevant fact: In tabletop RPGs, and in games like Battle for Wesnoth, the rules are spelled out in exact detail, and noone suffers for knowing what a point of Dexterity will do for you relative to a point of Constitution.

 

Proposed Solution: Let there be documentation. Let people build characters to achieve the goals they set for themselves rather than having to guess blindly whether a little more dodge is better than a few more HP.

 

Big Issue #2: The autoharvester is a nice idea, but in introducing it, it seems as if you have squared the difficulty of harvesting. Exponentiation == bad.

 

Assumptions:You still have a chance to fail each harvest, based on your level vs the difficulty level of the harvest. You get fewer tries per minute based on the difficulty of the harvest. Note that these are both guesses, due to Issue #1.

 

Proposed Solution: Get rid of the square. Two ways to do it. Option one: Make harvesting automatically succesful, at a varaiable rate which scales up with difficulty and down with skill. Option Two: Keep the random factor, but simulate a constant rate of clicking across all item types.

 

Big Issue #3:Excess difficulty seems to be the watchword for new systems. In other games I've played, I've seen magic limited by: Level required to cast, MP required to cast, items required to fuel spells, Spells must be bought, magic is weak relative to weaponry. Only in EL have I seen all 5 limiting mechanisms used at once.

 

Proposed solution: Pick a single Fuel type and/or make magic stronger.

 

My issues with the economy will have to wait a few days until things settle down again.

[Derin]

Actually, I did consider Salem's formula at first, but I thought it made things too easy for the higher level harvesters. Ideally, a Harv 60 char should spend about 5 seconds on diamonds, not 1. But perhaps your time constant would work too, dns. It needs more fleshing out, though.

 

-Lyn-

Why, what makes you come to that conclusion?

What is the fun in that?

 

Salem's formula is good (but should be rounded to nearest I think). Harvest skill levels have to count in a positive way.

[Jojo]

Actually, I did consider Salem's formula at first, but I thought it made things too easy for the higher level harvesters. Ideally, a Harv 60 char should spend about 5 seconds on diamonds, not 1. But perhaps your time constant would work too, dns. It needs more fleshing out, though.

5 second for a diamond harvest at lv 60? How long would it take to complete one harvesting session? Should the character sit in the mine that long while gargs hovering around him? And then the painful process of polishing diamond with 3 sanding papers and 2 water esses. The water seese mast be made mixing four ingredients including sapphire.

Then finally the process of making a ring. Do I want to sell the resulting precious rings to some other players? NO. I'd keep them for my own use.

Doesn't matter in any way. After seeing how things are, I quit.

I may drop in sometime later to see what changes are implemented.

I am really sorry such a change came in my favorite game.

[daemorhedron]

With all due respect....really, I'm in shock and I just can't stop thinking about the simple fact that of all the things you could implement in this game the decision was made to ultimately further retard progress.

 

Granted this is a beta, and sure we're testers lucky to have anything at all, but really I don't think this game can take much more or this one step forward, two steps backward mentality. As most people have already stated, harvesting is definitely a joke now. It's way,way,way too slow and fails far too often in general for anyone's tastes. It's definitely insulting to be level 40 at harvesting and having a tough time picking _fruit and veggies_ out of the ground. In my not so humble opinion, harvesting could do with several tweaks to make it completely acceptable and a happy compromise of both security and functionality. Numerous ideas have been put forth in this regard of course, but some I'd like to touch on are:

 

-gathering units in bunches according to your nexus and type (ie 4 vegal nexus means 4 fruit gathered on a successful strike)

-a random gathering amount, from 1 to (level/difficulty or favorite formula here)

-fruit/veggies should be moved from their current values to the easiest thing to harvest (and thus, the least xp). As it stands, you get more xp from harvesting veggies than say sulfur, which is a little weird.

-tit ore should weigh _substantially_ more then what it currently does. I was shocked to find out that after all my hard work with iron and silver that tit ore weighs a mere 1 EMU per unit. it should weigh the most, and at least twice that of iron.

 

Why aren't there harvester friendly 'quests'? This would be especially beneficial for people just starting out. There's more than enough of the 'find <nick> in <place> and kill him and get <goodies here>'. Why not have a quest such as 'There has been a wall collapse in CC and poor <nick here> has been buried alive. Help dig him out!' and have the guy surrounded by like 2k of sulfur or something. Last person to dig him out gets a pickaxe or maybe a book on tit mining or something heh.

 

Anyways, I know it's long winded and cynical, but try to look at this post as something with some positive suggestions to make EL a better place for everyone. Despite the tirade of complaints, I'd actually like to thank the EL developers at this point (even though mere hours ago, I assure you I was cursing your names heh) for at least trying to fine tune a system that needs to be perfected. It's not quite there yet, but hopefully they'll see the light and make the proper balances soon enough.

[Xilcox]

Ok my comments:

 

GOOD:

"* Bug fixs for remote spells in strange situations

* Security updates for troublemakers

* #demigod command for mods to help in running PK contests

* Harvesting Sulfur now required leather gloves

* Two EFE are now needed for Iron Plate

* Multiple other bug fixes

* Server based autoharvest, click to start, click to stop

* #beam me up is disabled on some maps for lvl 20+"

 

"* EFE is now required for Titanium long, serpent, & chain" -> good except serpent stones need to be much RARER

"* Trik no longer buys Iron Shields, or Steel Longs Swords" -> Why ? Player buying prices won't go down with the current changes, they'll go up.

"* Price adjusted on Titanium bars" -> Makes no sense who's going to get overly rich by selling those to the shop in the new system ?

"Manufacuring & harvesting how takes more time depending on how complex it is"

If you have speed restriction on harvesting, those on manu/other things are rather useless, since harvesting limits speed for everything else. You didn't make 500 brs imediatly, they took the time it takes to harvest all their ingredients.

 

About the harvest calculation ? 20 seconds on diamonds at level 60 as opposed to 40 at level 0 ? Level has to count more.

You have to remember we have levels from playing in the old system, but it is pretty much impossible to reach level 60 with the current speed, that's 3500000 exp or so at snail speed.

 

Basicly I like most of the new update as an ideea, but you need to do a lot of adjustment/tweaking now, because the game is really imbalanced.

I think it was a case of if it's not broken don't fix it <_<.

Now we have a mess of the old and new:

- Huge "legacy" skills for old players new players will never ever reach. I think leveling from 0 is now your biggest problem, how are newbs to get their levels up ?

- Same for items - people have stocks. I kick myself for not buying more tit stuff in time

- Harvesting speed limit, harvest exp cap, "invisible" harvesting events, just don't mix well. If you choose speed limit get rid of the exp cap, and if you want to keep the events give a message (and one for the random harvest end).

- Make rare essences not so rare. Do you realise how much time it takes now to make 1 EFE ? (what was it 1/5000 chance with artificier) With getting ingredients and all ?

 

And people just won't have the time to play the game, that's your biggest issue. I mean new people to level up. I'll still walk around and fight things since i have the stats but new people might just not have the patience/time to do anything.

Right, i know they're supposed to roleplay and socialise not level. You're removing actual gameplay so that people don't get distracted from the important things like the chat channels... Yeah the 8 people that want to do that all the time said thanx.

 

Ok sorry for that last bit, but it's true. .

Edited November 23, 2004 by Xilcox

[Adyna]

I can only reiterate what has been said before:

 

1. Harvesting is too slow

 

2. It will encourage macroers big time and even players that haven't macroed before will now think about starting.

[Gen_Axis]

Remove the new harvesting system and implement this one

 

First of all:

- remove last update (harvesting/producing part i meant)

- remove teleport event

- stay with rest bad events, lvls, and failing rate

 

Now ill explain whats my idea:

 

- rename most important caves ( crystal cave and morcraven mine etc.) with most needed resources, which are close to storages to mines.

- put an owner to each mine (for example: crystal cave will belong to Corren - DP City and Morcraven Mine is uhm Dwarf Colony or something)

- put a NPC at each entry of mine

- set a entry fee (for each mine)

 

So players will have to pay for materials (they won't be longer free - not all i mean, but for examle iron ore, silver ore will be) or looking for free far far away from storage.

 

Ok, now: NPC will be selling and buying materials that you can harvest in his mine.

If you click on mine entrance same NPC (dialogue box) will ask you if you want to pay for enter for example 200gc* if yes you will enter, if no not.

 

So if you have to collect toons of materials you will have to pay each time you visit mine :-)

 

Thats for sure stops macroers, cuz even if you will seat whole day in mine and harvesting you need many turn walking to and from storage to store em, and you have pay each time enter mine.

 

Second plus: admin can change entry fee depending of 'how eceonomy is doing'

ex. if too many stuff on market he raising fee drastically due to let's say recession... so ppl will making less and prices should going up.

if too few lowering fees due to economy boom :-)

I think its good way you can control market.

 

Also fees for different mines can be different, dependably what resource they have.

 

Please consider this solution.

 

PS. Also you can join reasoning thing 'developed' by Rya in Suggestions/Harvesting System post.

 

PS. Also posted it in suggestion forum.

[Lyanna]

That's actually not such a bad idea, but please don't cross-post like that again. Posting once is usually enough, and helps to keep other topics from being buried. But seeing how the players are reacting to just the minor changes in Trik's buying and selling patterns, imagine what it would be like each time the devs changed the prices for the NPC materials. <_<

 

 

-Lyn-

[Azazel]

Being a game, however, it is supposed to be fun.

we're working on that, have patience

the more you work the less fun we have - each new update takes away more fun

[Azazel]

I THINK ITS PERFECT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

MikeH's stats: http://eternal-lands.solexine.fr/~radu/vie....php?user=MikeH

 

i don't think you're an expert

Edited November 23, 2004 by Azazel

[makourain]

LOL! burnt~

 

this new update is rubbish, 1 minute for 1 fruit at lvl 50 harvesting.

i have a suggestion, remove the 'afk harvesting' rule, because ur not leaving us much choice.

 

dont expect me to sit at the computer and stare as i mine 1 tit ore every minute, who would do that?

[Guest Mariah]

How about from lvl 1-10 harvest 1 per 4 secs,lvl 10-20 1 per 5 secs,lvl 20-30 2 per 6 secs,lvl 30-40 2 per 5 secs,lvl 40 and up 3 per 6 secs? This kind of graduation is beneficial to both the newb AND the hi lvl,and gives incentive to lvl further.