To Die In El

[Ravenod]

This idea hit me when I was reading this.

 

In Lyanna's 2nd post she talks about dying not be really dying...sooooo

 

 

I thought about maybe putting an NPC (called Death or whatever) at the gate of the Underworld...and he asked random riddles that you must answer via multiple choice. If you choose right, then you spawn at beam...no difference.

 

But if you choose wrong then you are sentenced to X amount of time in the Shadow plane. The shadow plane can just be newbie island re-done to be a wasteland. A completely different map...can't harvest or manu or anything there. Just have to walk around or sit and chat with the other "lost souls" until your time in purgatory is finished. Then you spawn back at beam.

 

Maybe your stay can even be dependant on how badly you answer to Death's riddle was.

 

Or based on your ethereality...

 

Maybe there could be a new perk that would cost mega Pickpoints, and it would highlight which was the correct answer to the riddles...

 

Ok I'm babbling now. I'll stop.

[Lyanna]

While I like your ideas, Ravenod, I think it still sidesteps the main issue (or at least, the point I was trying to make). This suggestion increases the annoyance factor, and hence makes death more scary (slightly), but the reason for death is to be blamed on either the player themselves, or on the difficulty of the question. What permanent death is all about, however, is the choices one makes before dying - whether you are willing to give up the possibility of life at all, or at least risk it for the chance of good/glory. It also highlights player-interactivity: a killer is truly evil, because he robs people of their free choice to live or die. It's an all-or-nothing approach that I would like to see.

 

Having said that, however, I fully realise that if we were ever to implement permanent death in this game, people would go beserk, so we're forced to 'downgrade' our expectations to this second level - increasing the annoyance factor of death instead. And that's when your idea comes into play.

 

I think one important consideration with the shadow plane is how to prevent people from just going afk, or chatting on the channels to while away their time. Also, we need to think about the effects on newbies. If a newbie just died for the first time, it is unlikely that they would know the answer to Death's question, so would have a high probability of ending up on the shadow plane, and hence quitting the game in frustration. On the other hand, if we make the questions so easy that even a newbie could answer, then it doesn't target all the non-newbies.

 

Difficult, really.

 

-Lyn-

[stasia]

the questions *could* be tied to the OA level of the player then.

 

with the questions getting trickier as your OA is higher.

 

permanent death would be horrible - people get attached to their characters much the same way they get attached to pets i guess.

[Ravenod]

I understood the point you were trying to make in the other thread Lyanna, and wasn't twisting your words. Just giving you your propers, because it was your post that spawned this idea.

 

And I view the riddles as being constantly updated / changed. So as not to get repetitive.

 

And I agree (halfway) about not being able to go afk when in the shadow world. On one hand, going afk would mean a long pause in the playing of EL...hence dying would suck. But on the other hand, it would be a bit boring...so maybe there could be an alternative to just sitting around that would speed up your wait in the shadow plane. A go and get this quest? Or maybe if another player has a really high perception, you would be able to talk to them from the shadow world and have them type a command that would "bring you back". Maybe it would take 3-5 people to type it....I'm babbling again.

 

And what if you died in the shadow world....maybe then your character would get deleted?

 

--Going in a different direction--

 

What if when you died you lost all your matter points? And possibly even be a "ghost"...slowly fading back in to your real self. But until your matter points are fully restored, you are anti-social, hellspawn, and jelly-bones. Perhaps there can be an NPC far from newbie island that, if you had done her quest, she could restore your matter instantaneously. Maybe for everytime "the witch" makes you whole again, you will have to do another quest for her...for the next time you die.

 

Blah blah blah...I'm done typing....for now.... muhahahahaha *cough* hahaa

[stasia]

hmm, like the idea of becoming a ghost for a bit - that would make dying suck enough surely.

 

and every change so far here *is* about making things suck a bit more eh

[chatterbug89]

I like the idea...but I do think that the peopel with hellspwn shoudl be able to bypass the "riddles". Hellspwn is already a paint (i would know..had it for a little under 3 months...) and adding the riddles will just make it pointless and for the peopel who already have this it isen't very fair to make them reset.

 

permanent death would be horrible - people get attached to their characters much the same way they get attached to pets i guess.

Yes, this I woudl hate....very bad idea...

[Aislinn]

I'd like to see more done with death too, but definitely not a permanent death! (And yes I'm very attached to my char...she's my alter-ego of sorts...)

 

And having hellspawn was a choice with a very nice reward , why should hellspawn people get to bypass anything???!!!

 

Hmmm could the death penalty or riddles or whatever is chosen be level related?

Edited November 11, 2004 by Aisllinn

[Lyanna]

Okay, maybe a better question to ask would be:

 

What would you NOT like to lose in the event of death? Is it:

- Items?

- Levels?

- Time?

- Character/role?

 

-Lyn-

[stasia]

Okay, maybe a better question to ask would be:

 

What would you NOT like to lose in the event of death? Is it:

- Items?

- Levels?

- Time?

- Character/role?

 

-Lyn-

arrgh!! wrong approach (and one typical of this game so far )

 

why not instead approach the problem in a positive manner - how can we make the event of death more entertaining to the players?

 

for example: we could die then turn into ghost for a bit and haunt our killers

[Aislinn]

Okay, maybe a better question to ask would be:

 

What would you NOT like to lose in the event of death? Is it:

- Items?

- Levels?

- Time?

- Character/role?

 

-Lyn-

arrgh!! wrong approach (and one typical of this game so far )

 

why not instead approach the problem in a positive manner - how can we make the event of death more entertaining to the players?

 

for example: we could die then turn into ghost for a bit and haunt our killers

Ooooooh now that I like!!!!!!

[chatterbug89]

Well, i woudl rather lose a little EXP over items any day...

 

And having hellspawn was a choice with a very nice reward tongue.gif, why should hellspawn people get to bypass anything???!!!

 

I mean this, when I did hellspwn I knew what I was goignt to expect and I have put up with it for a long time and still do. Why should I have something added to the trouble when I aggreed to it before they integrate soemthign new liek what we are talking about. I probaly woudlent get hellswpn if i had to answre questions all the time....

[Aislinn]

Well, we already lose items/health when we die...I don't think we need to lose levels/exp or our entire character too!

 

I agree with stasia, there should be annoying but equally entertaining things to happen when we die...I do like the idea of a longer time required to be in the underworld or wherever...with the maps now, people just point and click and poof-they are out. I think the quest idea to hasten the time out is a great idea...you are still there for a while but have something productive to do while there...death needs to be something people try to avoid more than they do now but not so bad that people quit over it.

[Kami]

How about completely shifting the game a little:

 

First, Make all Maps PK except I.P.

 

Second, Make all normal PK Battles like a Challenge (kind of like the Trade Option in the game) and, except under certain conditions, the other player must accept Battles but Fleeing from battle is even easier. Plus, the Challenger Gets First Strike.

 

Third, make certain alternate Attack/Fight Commands such as Challenge, Backstab, and Assassinate, each initiate a fight in different ways:

 

Challenge = One player Challenge another to a duel right there. The other player must accept or decline.

Backstab = One player can force another playing into fighting with them but that player gains First Strike but suffers a Further Attack and Defense Penalty during the fight as well as suffers a major Karma Drop.

Assassinate = Can only initiate a Fight as an event. This idea is that we can have different ideas rooting in Quests , Karma and player interaction. One Idea is Bounty Hunters/Assassins where if your Karma is so low as to be declared a Public Menace or that you have fallen out of Favor with your guild or that someone places a bounty on your head. But this, Like Backstab, gives you First Strike yet makes you suffer a Penalty and a Karma Drop.

 

Forth, Make the Underworld a complex "Other World" in which player's can also interact with and even continue their Adventures. The Point is that Player's must perform "Tasks" in order for that player to earn their life and their mortal form back! (Thinking kind of like Old Greek Myths here) After all, what are the Limits of Heaven and Hell except our Imaginations! What is The Underworld? Why all we sent there? If we were discussing Religion, that can be answered in so many ways but since this is a Fantasy game, We can give whatever reason we want, so long as there is a reason!

 

Death isn't The End! It's just Another Beginning!

[stasia]

...Make all Maps PK except I.P.

 

Second, Make all normal PK Battles like a Challenge (kind of like the Trade Option in the game) and, except under certain conditions, the other player must accept Battles but Fleeing from battle is even easier. Plus, the Challenger Gets First Strike...

this would be handleable, but only if we can choose not to play that way (ie. fight on/off).

 

...cos otherwise it'd be like the trade window in that game <which shall here remain nameless> where the trade window pops up every time some random n00b wants to trade with you - it'd be like that, 'cept with the fight window constantly popping up every five steps. arrgh.

[freeone3000]

"Duel on/off" sounds familiar, like on a java game with a drop-down window.

Sounds a bit too much like Runescape for me.

[stasia]

heh. he said the r word...

[Kami]

Like it was said before, If you keep refusing an idea, whether it be good or bad, simply because it may or may not have been featured in some other game, then all you're going to do is try to Piece together a Crappy Game out off all Of the Bad Ideas that other Game's such as This Rune Scape and others Chose NOT to include in their game for a reason!

 

No matter how hard you try and how long you keep holding this game back, you're going to have to face the fact that almost Every Good, Original Idea has already been used in another game! Geez! You want me to pick apart EL, comparing it to other games? I can but I won't! Because it's How you use the features that count! Truly great Games only come from how you weave together its parts, not it's parts themselves.

 

Look. I've only played Rune Scape once and only for about an hour but frankly, It just bored me a little too much and I wasn't fond of its atmosphere. Granted, it had some very nice features that, in many ways, were superior to EL. (Hell, it's artwork alone blows EL out of the water) But I choose to play this game because I prefer it and I like trying something Different! And as a Matter of fact, I only fought using RS's fight system only fighting the opening goblins and what I’m suggesting is NOTHING like anything even remotely similar to RS's Fight System. So shut up about Rune Scape already and stop trying to compare my ideas to it!

 

Also, so what if one feature is slightly similar to one in another game. That doesn’t mean that we can’t use that feature and even make it better! Our reason for making suggestions is to make this game better then it is currently! To improve This game is our goal, right? If it’s Better then other games, then isn’t it different then other games? Even better then this Rune Scape, correct? So, how is Including something that is Better then Rune Scape trying to be “Like†Rune Scape?

 

GEEZ! I hate listening to you people! "Uhh, We not like that idea because it's too Rune Scapish" or "That sound's like it's from Rune Scape" Or "Go Back to Rune Scape, you newbie"!!! That's all I hear in this forum anymore. The funny thing is that is seams that you anti-RS people are the only people here who are actually comparing Eternal Lands to Rune Scape! You remind me of the two little boys arguing "My Dad can beat up your Dad"!!

 

Now, as for the Windows popping up, granted the current interface needs some improvements anyway but the windows should be a problem. Of course, obviously it’ll require the Mouse curser to stop changing to the attack command every time it moves over a player but then again,. Why would you want it to keep doing that anyway? It’s only useful for fighting animals, which I guess can stay the same but I could suggest a few changes there too.

[Xilcox]

Permanent death would probably drive 90% of players out of EL and the rest would just use it as a chat program. Not a good ideea...

 

As for other things:

I don't get this opinion that annoying players is good. I don't mean making death painful, that makes sense, but punishing people who die by making them do sensless, repetitive or boring things, just to make them hate dying...

 

So what could be done about death ? How about droping all items in inventory except those equiped (which would still have a 50%/40% chance with/without perk).

You could drop exp but for overall that wouldn't work very well with our pickpoint system. I guess maybe just a procent for the skills (many many people will complain)...

I like the ideea of developing the underworld a bit, but it wouldn't make much sense if you couldn't die in there being already dead and all..

How about removing the arch exit fromt the current underworld, and only teleport people out after a 15-30 min stay. And put a high level spell/potion "resurect" or something like that so you can get out faster.

Of course for this to work the spell should be high level (level 40 or so) and the potion at a similar level, and using expensive materials (1 tit and 1 gold bars disolved in mercury with a bit of ale added for flavour for example + the vial ofc). Or maybe make it one of those rare ones... it would be an extra income source for potion makers.

 

kami, read this:

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=9143

to figure out why people proposing ideeas from the games they played before is generally bad for this one.

Edited November 12, 2004 by Xilcox

[Roja]

 

Look. I've only played Rune Scape once and only for about an hour but frankly, It just bored me a little too much and I wasn't fond of its atmosphere. Granted, it had some very nice features that, in many ways, were superior to EL. (Hell, it's artwork alone blows EL out of the water)

LMAO!!! surely you jest

[Yoshi]

Or how about when we die we get a dept, the higher your level the higher dept you get say your level 20 you die you need to make up a 5k dept in order to gain any more exp of anykind and that 5k wouldn't go into any skill.. (yes i've seen this in a mmorpg) and it quite frankly works nicely..cept they have it where the exp is split if you get 16 exp 8 goes into dept 8 goes into your regular exp, but this may be too hard to put in - most of my ideas are usually but hey I think this is possible to do or you could just add a new "skill" called dept and just put the exp there like overall is done

[Lyanna]

I want to hear about how other games have handled death. Has anyone played Planescape:Torment, or Grim Fandango, or some other games that seemed to have taken death and completely inverted the idea? How did they go about it? (I haven't played any of those games myself, so I don't know...)

 

-Lyn-

[Ember]

Or how about when we die we get a dept, the higher your level the higher dept you get say your level 20 you die you need to make up a 5k dept in order to gain any more exp of anykind and that 5k wouldn't go into any skill.. (yes i've seen this in a mmorpg) and it quite frankly works nicely..cept they have it where the exp is split if you get 16 exp 8 goes into dept 8 goes into your regular exp, but this may be too hard to put in - most of my ideas are usually but hey I think this is possible to do or you could just add a new "skill" called dept and just put the exp there like overall is done

like this ideas reminds me of coh

[Kami]

 

Look. I've only played Rune Scape once and only for about an hour but frankly, It just bored me a little too much and I wasn't fond of its atmosphere. Granted, it had some very nice features that, in many ways, were superior to EL. (Hell, it's artwork alone blows EL out of the water)

LMAO!!! surely you jest

For a Semi-2-Dimentional Game, Yes I will take Rune Scape's Graphics over almost any others. Now, of course, EL is a 3-Dimentional Game so of course, the graphics from a 2-D game (or even from a Semi-2-D Game) can't be accurately compared to that of a 3-D game. But Rune Scape has a greater Color Quality and Depth that makes for a greater Fantasy Feel to it. Added to the fact that the General Character Varity gives players more Individuality and Customizability and (No real offence meant) doesn’t make all the Characters Look like Clones!

 

Now Like I said, Rune Scape had some very, very Nice Features that are in some ways superior to EL but over all, they didn’t make the game itself superior.

 

 

And Xilcox, yes I fully understand why we can't use elements from other games for this game. That is of course why I Never suggested doing so! My Suggestion was to take something Better then what was found in other games and using it is this game. As far I know, Nothing I suggested is found in any other game but that is not to say other games have not inspired me. I have played many games and, although sometimes their system is nice, I always strive to think of something better! Hell, that's the Premise of EL, right? Looking at other games out there and thinking “We can do betterâ€!

 

 

Anyway, back to the topic. I hadn't played many games in which Death is the point of the game. Most Games I've played have death as the End of the game or as an uncertainty factor in which you must try to revive your character's from death. The only frame of reference I have is from the old Myths and Legends Where the Border between the Living World and the Underworld are clearly defined and the hero must travel into the underworld for various purposes and then attempting to return to the world of the living.

[VegaDark]

The game needs less reasons to go AFK, not more.

 

This "shadowlands" idea is horrible.

 

Permanant death idea is even worse.

[Aira]

I absoultely hate the idea..

 

sorry.

 

I hate any ideas of perminant death. lol.. I like my char too much.