Ways To "stop" The Macro Harvesting

[Phuzion]

This is the first game i've hacked on open-source hehe

 

its cakewalk compaired to the goliath game protections you come up against nowadays.

 

Its a shame i like the game and the people who dev it @_@ would be fun to hack.

 

as for color recog thats what i shoot for "i made a rip-off of SCAR with the help of a friend who wrote the actual prog based off of scar. So color recog is one of my first attempts at hacking. Along with finding packets and if encrypted decrypt them. Im also learning to filter packets but ive had no luck on this game. If i simply try to block it its auto-dc and im not so sure about poking random values @_@ it usually just drops a blank packet.

 

I also debug/dissassemble

 

and finally memory searches for values i can use XD

 

but its all a waste on open source hehe

 

edit-

 

oh yes and there are better ways of banning.

[Ravenod]

With a harvest limit you say macroing would still exist. You are absolutely right.

 

BUT.

 

What I'm talking about is not the macroing itself, but the effects of macroing. If cheaters and normal players alike can only harvest (say 500) every hour, then in the end the differences are minor.

 

So, as it stands now macroing is a major issue because of all the benefits of 24/7 harvesting and the like. Take that away, and the macro'er has little advantage over the regular players.

 

I doubt if there was a harvest cap very many people here would really care HOW a player got his 500 ore/flowers an hour.

 

Will this completely eliminate the cheater's edge over a normal player. No.

He could still have his macro char harvesting while he's off fight training. But the endless stream of potions, metal bars, armor, weapons, and money for them would severely get cut.

[Phuzion]

wytter i have no intention of using my hacks against this game. otherwise i would not be pointing out that i am able to do this stuff. "i rarely even log on i just download anime and be forum monkey "

[MikeH]

heres my idea for EVERYTHING ALL AT ONCE!!!!

 

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=8612

[teranoz]

1. Put a variable into the official client

2. Do NOT put the value of it in the CVS (so keep it secret)

3. Only clients that send the right string to the server are allowed to connect.

4. Those that have permission to use modified clients, so the developers, (after request or those that already submitted a patch) get their own unique identifier.

5. Only one client at the same time with that identifier is allowed to connect (unless that developer has declared to use more at the same time with reason, e.g. improving trade window)

 

This will reduce the use of macroing a lot.

[Leeloo]

What I'm talking about is not the macroing itself, but the effects of macroing. If cheaters and normal players alike can only harvest (say 500) every hour, then in the end the differences are minor.

That would be another reason to start macroing. I play max two hours in one day, and far from every day. So if I need 5000 of something I would need to play 10 hours, which would probably take me a few weeks. Or I could make a macro, let it run over night, and have the 5000 ore ready when I get home from work.

 

Big advantage for the macroers.

[Phuzion]

1. Put a variable into the official client

2. Do NOT put the value of it in the CVS (so keep it secret)

3. Only clients that send the right string to the server are allowed to connect.

4. Those that have permission to use modified clients, so the developers, (after request or those that already submitted a patch) get their own unique identifier.

5. Only one client at the same time with that identifier is allowed to connect (unless that developer has declared to use more at the same time with reason, e.g. improving trade window)

 

This will reduce the use of macroing a lot.

Most macro's are not done via an alter'd client but by another program such as macro-suite whatever. so i dont think that would really help but it would cut down on custom clients.

[frak]

"my friend wrote a program and now i can hack your game", how does that help us phuzion? u r teh n00b!

[Phuzion]

"my friend wrote a program and now i can hack your game", how does that help us phuzion? u r teh n00b!

Erm could you try to make sense when you post please? i really dont understand what your trying to accuse me of @_@ or if your even trying to accuse me

[Leeloo]

Ok, so as someone here said, we should make the game so macroing just isn't necessary. Time to brainstorm down a new track I think. If that gets accomplished, that would mean an end to the repetative nature of the game I would think..because it is the mindless repetition that is macroed, and let's face it, that is utterly boring for the most part. If we can do that, and keep the game fun, then we will have succeeding in doing what no other MMORPG has done before

If you manage to do that... Well, just remember what I used to call you when you logged on from Romania back in the old days.

[Wytter]

1. Put a variable into the official client

2. Do NOT put the value of it in the CVS (so keep it secret)

3. Only clients that send the right string to the server are allowed to connect.

4. Those that have permission to use modified clients, so the developers, (after request or those that already submitted a patch) get their own unique identifier.

5. Only one client at the same time with that identifier is allowed to connect (unless that developer has declared to use more at the same time with reason, e.g. improving trade window)

 

This will reduce the use of macroing a lot.

I'd get that variable in 2-3 seconds by sniffing network packages. It's simply not possible to do that check client-side.

[teranoz]

so, put plainly, there is NOTHING we can do to stop macroers in the game. ...outside of killing the game for everyone else(which is not an option).

 

Ok, so as someone here said, we should make the game so macroing just isn't necessary. Time to brainstorm down a new track I think. If that gets accomplished, that would mean an end to the repetative nature of the game I would think..because it is the mindless repetition that is macroed, and let's face it, that is utterly boring for the most part. If we can do that, and keep the game fun, then we will have succeeding in doing what no other MMORPG has done before

We could try an experiment on the testserver with that.

 

Lets try that for a certain period of time, e.g. 1 or 2 months.

 

Make there the rule that ALL macroing is allowed there, and lets see the results of it.

[Learner]

1. Put a variable into the official client

2. Do NOT put the value of it in the CVS (so keep it secret)

3. Only clients that send the right string to the server are allowed to connect.

4. Those that have permission to use modified clients, so the developers, (after request or those that already submitted a patch) get their own unique identifier.

5. Only one client at the same time with that identifier is allowed to connect (unless that developer has declared to use more at the same time with reason, e.g. improving trade window)

 

This will reduce the use of macroing a lot.

Hacker captures data from the protocol and then modifies his client with 'key'.

 

What you would need is a challenge/response method where the actual value isn't sent but is used in a one way algorithym with the supplied data and sends the result ... but then hackor looks in binary and finds the key unless you really make it hard to find.

[Soldus]

With a harvest limit you say macroing would still exist.  You are absolutely right.

 

BUT. 

 

What I'm talking about is not the macroing itself, but the effects of macroing.  If cheaters and normal players alike can only harvest (say 500) every hour, then in the end the differences are minor.

 

So, as it stands now macroing is a major issue because of all the benefits of 24/7 harvesting and the like.  Take that away, and the macro'er has little advantage over the regular players.

 

I doubt if there was a harvest cap very many people here would really care HOW a player got his 500 ore/flowers an hour.

 

Will this completely eliminate the cheater's edge over a normal player.  No.

He could still have his macro char harvesting while he's off fight training.  But the endless stream of potions, metal bars, armor, weapons, and money for them would severely get cut.

well a simple look at your stats explains at once why you are so far off the right track

a fighter training seriously uses several 100 HEs per training session.

if you want a harvest cap, you force them to simply buy the HEs at the store.

the money that's needed to do that is gainable only by badass-pking.

which would lead to a wandering off of most of the ppl that carry this lil society, since they can't train anymore pvp and have fun in pk-areas (you prolly don't know that most ppl in EL believe in certain unwritten rules in pk-areas , not to attack ppl training for example.)

you would otoh kill off the professions of harvesters and alchemists. -> thus removing the most important alternative to a fighters career -> making those either become "evil" or wander off aswell.

of course other ppl would fill those places, but the comunity as we know and love it was doomed to die.

 

as others have said already, harvesting is the fundament of EL.

plz do NOT destroy it.

[Ravenod]

Soldus, Presumptious of you to base what you think I know of the game off of my current stats...

 

But Leeloo made a good point. So I'm done with the idea myself.

[Aislinn]

Roja.  I read that post link you gave me.

 

Everyone who was complaining and said NO to the idea either mentioned

 

1. they wouldn't be able to make 1000's of 'blank'

2. it would take to long to manu, advance, get money.

 

Everyone is so used to instant gratification on an extremely large scale.  Players want realism only when it will get them something they want.  If it in any way hinders what they have come to know as "normal progress" then they gripe.

 

I'll say this, and you can delete my posts on this thread if you want (cause I know it's probably not productive to the topic)

 

This is beta

Things have changed and changed again, and yet 100's of people still play.

Even with the new harvest rules, everybody got in an uproar, yet 100's of people still play.

You can't please everybody

This game's success does not hinge on the fact you can harvest infinitely

Well first: not being able to make "1000's of blank" and "taking too long to manu, advance, get money" were NOT the only reasons offered for the objections. Yes I was one of the ones who did complain of that, HE's and potions specifically, but I also did object to other things, mainly that this game offers people the chance to play a mmorpg and NOT have to pk or fight or what have you thats violent and very fast paced. This game offers people the chance participate in the gaming environment and have peaceful professions such as alchemy, harvesting, manu, crafting...without having to fight, which is the end result of the current harvesting plan.

 

I find it presumptious of YOU to assume that the only reason I object is because I want instant gratification. And I do not want realism here, whether it gets me what i want or not. If I want realism, I'll go back to my rl.

 

Yes this is beta...we are here to play and report on what we like or dislike, what works and what doesn't. Yes things change, that isn't the problem here.

 

We still play because we love this game and we love this community. Of course you can't please everybody, nobody said you could. We object to things passionately, and we praise passionately, all because we love this game and want it to be the best it can be.

 

And actually, yes this game's success DOES hinge on harvesting...look at all the skills...harvesting is necessary for all of them.

[Ravenod]

This game does not hinge on the fact that you can harvest infinitely

 

Tell me this, What if this game started out with a harvest cap of say 500 an hour? Then nobody would have thought anything of it. The thought of "hmmm, why can't I harvest infinitely?" would probably not have crossed anyone's mind for very long.

 

Now that everyone is used to harvesting infinitely (which then in turn means infinite potions/weapons/armor/essences/crafting...basically every other skill) they can't live without it.

 

Instant gratification is what I said...

 

Ex.

 

"Let's see, I want to train my att/def today. I need health ess and BR's. Probably need to make another pair of boots... I can play for 5 hours, so I can go up probably 2 levels in each if I hurry and make my 200 BR and 400 Health Ess....etc.)

 

Who ever said you (or me) had a right to go up levels so fast? Or be able to make 100's and 1000's of items in a short amount of time? Nobody, we have gotten used to it. It's normal. But putting a harvest cap dampers that, and people won't like it at first.

 

Leeloo made a good point when she said 'leave the macro running for 10 hours so I can get my 5000 items'. But if you think about it, if someone is only playing 2 hours a day...why would they need 5000? Even if they did, would they have time to use it? Even if they did have time, why are they putting so much effort into a character they barely play?

 

""I find it presumptious of YOU to assume that the only reason I object is because I want instant gratification. And I do not want realism here, whether it gets me what i want or not. If I want realism, I'll go back to my rl.""

 

It's not an assumption, because I wasn't assuming...I was generalizing the posts. Nor did I ever say you wanted/did not want realism. You are picking apart the parts of what I said (and said generally) to apply to you (as if I were talking about you).

 

I don't like fighting either. Before the reset, my att/def were my lowest skills. So you are right, this game lets you choose NOT to be a fighter if you don't want to be. Put a harvest cap in. How long will it take you per game hour to harvest 500 silver ore? Let's say you have no fails in a straight 500...it would take you 8 minutes and 20 seconds to harvest that much. Can you carry that much at a time? No. Factor in times it takes to walk to storage and back. 15 minutes? Let's say you don't have sunflowers or food to make the HE. Well that will have to come next hour. What will you do for 45 more minutes? Well you do like fighting a little bit, so get your gear on and go fight your monster for 20 minutes...ok you're bored now. 25 minutes to go. Go do a quest, chat with your buddies, help a noob out, go get ready to harvest those sunflowers.

 

I admit, there are not alot of other things to do when you're not harvesting or making something. Believe me, I know all too well. But the people who don't really like fighting (and me included) are square pegs trying to fit into a round hole.

 

This game is designed in the end for fighting. It's what Entropy wanted. Every skill can (and in Entropy's eyes probably) be classified as a stepping stone towards being a better fighter. Magic, Essences, Potions, Crafting, Manufacturing. What things do you really make in those skills that are not designed for fighting? Items that help you do the skills better--is the answer.

 

But as my previous post also said, I'm done with the idea myself.

 

Then why did I just blather on about this idea, when I'm done with it? Because I still believe it would be a good idea...IF there were more choices of things to do that weren't dependant upon harvesting.

 

Harvesting is tedious, but required for this game. And so, I'm done with the idea for now.

[Aislinn]

Well you did kind of pick and choose from other's posts too <_<

 

And I don't care to be generalized about, especially when i don't fit into that generalization

 

I think we all still "blather on" (I do like that ) because we want the game to be better because we all like it. A lot. There are lots of different opinions out there, obviously, about what exactly IS best for the game...of course it depends on what you want to get out of it also.

 

*shrugs* If all things basically stay the same as far as what we can do such as alchemy, potions, crafting, etc...then harvesting is the main attraction here and putting a cap on it severely limits non pure fighters in what they can do, which doesn't really seem very fair. (And it's not just for me personally, I like to do the fighting also. I liked being an all-arounder, but thats very hard with the nexus system). I don't see why all games only have to revolve around fighting.

 

I do agree with you that it would be great if there were other things implemented that did not in any way revolve around harvesting.

[Phuzion]

Ok this post is just for those wanting a system not revolved around anything that can be macro'd.

 

Fighting = macroable

harvesting = macroable

magic = macroable

manufacturing = macroable

summoning = macroable

alchemy = macrable

 

lets rewrite the whole game.