Entropy Takes Money For Stats.

[Platyna]

If you have stats bought for money seems you shouldn't play games. Because all what you want if show

off and getting everything for free. And you are wrong stasia, no one will send your congratulations

that you was so brave and managed to use your bank account.

It is not I am a communist and I don't agree that developers should have material profit from they work.

But not that way. Not so low, flat, evil way especially there are alot of ways to make money.

Considering that how many magic swords is in game...selling it works. I was talking with honeybee and

told her it is so nice she is donating to the game, especially that she was selling these swords for in

game items. She told she is doing it for the people - for developers so they can have money and for

players so they can have cool swords - this way she brough some flavour to this game and also donated

alot of money. This is another reason why I don't underestand. Someone tell me: It is so difficoult to get

sword, make it glow in green, orange etc. call it: Two edged of generosity?

No one was buying these sword because their uber stats, no one was using it in combat. They bought

it because it looks cool. So why not make some class of items that looks cool and sell it for real money?

 

Regards.

[stasia]

...And you are wrong stasia, no one will send your congratulations

that you was so brave and managed to use your bank account.

^^^^^

 

lol plat i think you might need to get your english-polish dictionary out cos it appears you have misunderstood and are talking at cross-purposes with me

[Wytter]

Sigh - I can't say that I didn't expect this to happen, but I did hope that Entropy would have asked the community first. The problem with selling stats for real money is that it completely ruins the competitive element in the game - a newbie that has a lot of money irl could become alot higher than the old-timers just by using 5 minutes of his time to compose a mail to Entropy and issue a money transfer. I think this is quite sad for the game and that it at least ruins some of the fun.

 

Cicero - You cannot compare this to P2P or even to selling items. Items have a lot less value, when value is measured in TIME. Stats, however take a lot time and effort to achieve, and everyone who has worked hard to get their stats will now realize that the time they spend might've been used better irl. Sad but true, people who get addicted to a game have a hard time realizing that this is just a game, and that the time spend in-game should be about having fun instead of hard labour (that's what you do IRL instead)

 

Entropy - I fear that by making this move, Eternal Lands (as we know it) is at stake. Please rethink your decision, and come up with alternatives - trading visual effects (hiring an OpenGL programmer) for the community (which will gradually be lost due to taking out the competitive element) is really not a good idea... I still love the mixed P2P/F2P idea, and I know that a lot of others feel the same way. Selling equipment and extra features in-game is fully legitimate and accepted by the community - selling stats will not share that general accept.

[Roja]

well i think the majority is against this whole idea as is visible... I do agree that it is not fair, and I don't think it should be allowed.

 

Although I completely believe that if you really want to enjoy the game it wont matter if someone is a higher level than you, and it won't matter how he gets that level.

[Wytter]

Although I completely believe that if you really want to enjoy the game it wont matter if someone is a higher level than you, and it won't matter how he gets that level.

Yes, ideally you are right. The problem is that most of your players ARE dedicated and competitive, and it would make them feel as if they wasted their time when they see a new player with higher stats than them, because the new player just happened to have 200$ in his/her bank acc that he/she couldn't find a better way to use...

[Platyna]

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=8030

Roja. All what I do really good in my life is organization. And I think I am not the one. Let us work

and we will bring you million good ideas which can help the game to get profits. Please, make a deal

with player X, maybe he will accept a titanium axe or something like that in exchange for his 1 million

exp. Please, don't sell stats. Don't, don't, don't. Let's organize team of people who already submitted

nice patches to work on server code with Entropy and other devs. There are million ways to not go

that low.

 

Regards.

[Placid]

I agree with Wytter, you made some good points.

 

Then again Roja, i still think that there is a element in playing a game that gives you satisfaction:Being good at the game and being able to show others you are. i.e. Stats.

 

Although i shouldnt really be relating EL to real life but: In real life, what do footballers enjoy doing? Playing football because there good at it, and because others know they are.

 

Why do a lot of people hate 'manufatured music bands'? Because they either payed their way there, or are simply paid to be there.

 

The fact of the matter is, people enjoy being good at things (hell even if it is only a game) and enjoy showing other's their success at these things. People dont like others who simply 'buy' their way to success.

 

Like Wytter said, the selling of ingame stats for money will severely hinder the success and popularity of Eternal Lands. Sad, but true.

[(Athosino)]

it's kinda sad ent, most of us our dumb kids that either can't make money, or can and will spend it all. yes, i don't like it at all. Items are godo enoghu cause you can get items, but stats???? I mean somebody can join first day and like rule kf now if they pay some cash. I guess i owe you thanks ent, for letting rich people have the powers over us common man. your making el more like real life

 

 

VOTE BUSH 04' HE GAVE ME LOADS OF CASH

Oh, but the dumb kids, as you call them, have a lot of time to spend in the game and increase their stats, while people busy in real life (that have money) don't have that much tiem to spend in the game. Isn't that unfair as well?

I_am_Spock is right that's it's unfair to "dumb kids", BUT Ent IS also right THAT rich people DOESN'T have so much time as "dumb kids" do, since they work(unless they have inherited a lot of money/stuff from someone, wich is almost impossible). I think selling ingame stats for money is OK, but NOT cheap, so not too many people can afford it.

 

P.S. 4 Ent: You DID say "I will never sell in game stats for money.".

 

Regards.(teh banned 0n3na, you don't have copyright for this way of posting messages, do you? )

[Platyna]

That argument with kids and hard working people who has no time to play is very poor. Because kids

has their duties too. They has to do their homeworks, they has to go school, clean up their rooms,

help parents etc. also I don't think so which parent will allow his childs to play this game 24/7.

 

Regards.

[Soldus]

AND , like i already said...ppl who WORK for their money enjoy working for their lvls.

they would NOT cheat and just buy their way up. they just don't need that.

the only ppl who would actually do that are low selfesteem rich parents kids.

we don't need more of those here, and especially not ruling PK zones thanks to their cheated lvls.

if someone worked for his lvls chances are he is integrated in the comunity..not so these guys

[Nyxl]

I'll try to put my thoughts into words, and hope no bitterness or anger will taint them.

 

Whatever the context, Money is still one of the biggest taboos ever. This current topic is but one flamboyant example.

 

It is logical that developers earn some money from their work and dedication. The one who'll deny it is either a Saint, either a complete selfish thoughtless person. As I know that only J-P the Second still genuinely thinks there are people worth being called saints, I won't develop that subject.

 

It's just that there are times, places and uses for that money.

 

Selling ingame items for real money, in my opinion, is not different from buying Metallica t-shirts or caps or other goodies related to any fandom. You like an activity so much that you're ready to invest money in it. It's understandable and quite honest business.

 

Selling stats, skills, levels, whatever is relevant to the character in its very essence, for real money is more than disturbing, for all RP'ers (I'm counting myself in). As Wytter explained, as teh banned 0n3na and a few others expressed, it ruins most competitiveness of the game. That's an obvious first. A less obvious second is that will encourage a certain category of people to abuse this "privilege". It has already occured with some guy I would not mention, who threatened to destroy altogether the community and yet got his way out of it... Because of money. I won't get back to this file, it has been closed, period. But my point is that, if money becomes a sign of power ingame, that power will be abused, despite the developers' good will and dedication, despite the survey of the mods...

 

A distant third would be of philosophical nature : who am I ingame ? Am I that women-loving Elf who has trained hard in Crafting to be able to make lots of rings of (Dis)engagement to put up for his affairs ? Am I that stubborn Dwarf acting all "I like axes, arrrr, when arrrre we gonna get those weppondz to chop down Orrrrcs !?!" ? Am I that Human Blackmsith rejoicing in the art of bending metal to my will and hammer ?

 

Or am I that artificial construct with no story at all but being able to shake mountains just because I came into existence ?

 

Mail to : Game.Admin@Random.mmorpg.net

From : Beta.Player@Random.network.ext

Subject : buying a new character.

Text : "Hello Mr. Admin, I'd like to format a new character for your game. I'd like one having maxed'out physical aptitudes, with all martial skills available, and a special feature that allows me to use a special devastating attack that I can use once per game-day. Can you give me the price for it ? And do you take Euros as well as Dollars ?"

[...]

Mail to : Beta.Player@Random.network.ext

From : Game.Admin@Random.mmorpg.net

Subject : Re : buying a new character.

Text : "Dear Mr. Player, except for the special feature you mentioned, the character you asked for is quite easy to create, and the price has been standardized for a long time, now. It would cost 75$ for the basis of maxed'out strength, agility and endurance, and a supplement of 10$ per skill, that is 130$ for all martial skills. The special feature you wrote about would probably cost a few hundreds more to implement but if you're willing to sponsor us, we'll gladly put it on the schedules. As for the paiment, we accept Euros, but only through bank-transactions, and I must warn you that for international transactions, banks will charge you a substantial fee. I'd recommend you to use Paypal instead, which is rather easy and...[...]"

 

If it comes to this extent, it will kill the diversity of players. There will be only two kinds of players : those who have time, those who have money. But right now, on EL, there are one kind of players for each player. Each player is unique and has his/her own background, both ingame and in real life, nobody can tell for sure that "such people will be that way".

 

Like a good many of EL players, should this happen for good, well, I would leave. I can live without EL, and I'm convinced EL can perdure without my witticisms, that's not the point. And I really enjoyed the time spent here up to now. I simply would not stand this good moments being reduced to nothing because money can buy a "being" as well as a "having".

[Quinticus]

Exactly how many of you have actually contributed to this game (monetarily)? I haven't (i'm just starting out and haven't the money for it). I'm willing to bet that there haven't been too many offerings to those who have made this game.

 

*checks*

Not only that...but the last time i checked, this game was...FREE. Who the hell are all of you to tell entropy what he can and can do? I can understand your anger perhaps...but totally trashing his attempt to profit in the least from what he as made to you for FREE? Total B.S. You don't like it? go play somewhere else.

 

As someone who currently has to make ends meet, i respect entropy because he's giving a lot of us enjoyment for the best price...FREE! Why should you guys complain when he tries to gain a little from it?

 

I see stats and item selling in the same light. I think it's an excellent way to get some income from a game that has been made FREE!

[Roja]

Like Wytter said, the selling of ingame stats for money will severely hinder the success and popularity of Eternal Lands. Sad, but true.

Yes, it is true.

 

We have to make this game for a few types of people, not only one.

-competitors

-socializers

-RP gamers

-us, the developers

 

We have to keep each category happy.

[Platyna]

Who we are? We are a community, people who actualy loves this game and are ready to work for it

and contribute for it. No one negates Entropy's ownership of this game so telling that we do is simply

childlish. Anyway we know that selling in game stats will destroy this game and this game will die.

As Nyxl said - buying in game items is like buying your favorite band gadgets and alot of non profit

projects are alive from selling such things.

Selling in game stats will break fairplay rule, and I don't think so if someone will want to play a game or

contribute to the game which breaks this rule. No matter if that game itself is free or not.

Exept, of course, rich kidds who can pay for stats.

 

Regards.

[Quinticus]

absolutely rediculous. And what do you think this person is going to do when he/she purchases a character with the greatest stats? Kill everyone in a PK? how long do you think that will be fun? Will the person get rich selling stuff he/she makes? How much money do you think until that person gets bored?

 

The fun is in playing the game... I believe anyone buying the greatest stats will get bored and leave soon after the purchase.

 

Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility: A law of economics stating that as a person increases consumption of a product--while keeping consumption of other products constant--there is a decline in the marginal utility that person derives from consuming each additional unit of that product.

 

This also goes for life. Maxing out the attributes of a character defeats the purpose of fun in the game. Let these people waste their money. We'll gain from it because the game makers will have more money to make the game better.

[Wytter]

Exactly how many of you have actually contributed to this game (monetarily)? I haven't (i'm just starting out and haven't the money for it). I'm willing to bet that there haven't been too many offerings to those who have made this game.

Not nearly enough... People seem to think that they can get 100s of hours of fun for free - I like to see it the other way around. Do you think it's fair that Entropy and Roja pays for you to have 100s of hours of fun?

 

The only thing that made people donate was when they got an in-game item in return (before they had gotten around 1000-1500$ in overall income from this game) - is it just me or is that extremely ignorant? They've already gotten the entire GAME for free, and imho that should be enough reason to donate - if enough people who could afford it were returning the favour, then we would not be in this unfortunate situation at all. I know people who have played this game since 2003 (like I) who have not given a dime back to the creators fo the game - personally I think it's blatant and ignorant, but most of all - extremely selfish.

[Quinticus]

I completely agree. Selling stats and items are a great idea. If i had the money, i'd give it to these people (and when i do, i will). It's an expression of good will that they provide this game for free, i always feel like i'm taking advantage of it. I understand that these people are getting agree because others will surpass them with the exchange of currence. WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD!

 

This game is only BETA! People too often forget that. They just see it as a way to play a game for FREE. And then they come to the forums and bitch when some other chap decides his way to the top of the food chain. Its pathetic...its life.

 

Hi my name's quinticus, and i support my game creator.

[Platyna]

Like Wytter said, the selling of ingame stats for money will severely hinder the success and popularity of Eternal Lands. Sad, but true.

Yes, it is true.

 

We have to make this game for a few types of people, not only one.

-competitors

-socializers

-RP gamers

-us, the developers

 

We have to keep each category happy.

You will if you will not sell in game items.

- Competitors (they are usually role players as well) will have fair play competition.

- Socializers will have nice community (anyway I think we all are socializers).

- RP gamers will have their RPing.

- Developers will have resources to continue their work by selling various fan in game items, guild houses

etc. For example:

White Stone city, Nordcarn, Portland, Corrent - 300 USD guild house which only guild members can

enter and bags will never dissapear, 250 USD if guild provide nice quality map for house, 200 USD if

guild provide map for one more house, free if large nice quality map will be provided - for example for

using it for p2p continent.

Profits:

- RPing - proper usage of cities. People will actually REALLY LIVE there.

- Competitors will have profits from being in guilds.

- Socializers - will live like a family in their houses with their friends in their guild

PL guild - let me remind - 70 members, wanted to buy such house, they resigned if I told them that

everyone can enter it.

- Developers - profits like new nice maps, money - 200-300 USD is not small cash, am I right?

 

Next thing:

Big TODO list of things required in server code made by Entropy.

People involved:

Learner

Cicero

Leeloo

Wytter

Duran

Mihaim

The Antiroot

Frak

Umrion

Waldi

Ezeril

[...]

 

Simply - people who already provided good source and solutions for EL client therefore they know EL

protocol, Entropy and you, Roja, as project coordinators are doing major things and not bother about

such stuff like buddy list. You just apporove code or not.

 

Of course it will require changes in the server code to bring new items, houses implementation and find

trustworthy people but count how much time, money and nerves it will safe and how strong will be

the community working FOR YOU! Good organization = good effects = profit for all of us.

 

Regards.

[Soldus]

I completely agree. Selling stats and items are a great idea. If i had the money, i'd give it to these people (and when i do, i will). It's an expression of good will that they provide this game for free, i always feel like i'm taking advantage of it. I understand that these people are getting agree because others will surpass them with the exchange of currence. WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD!

 

This game is only BETA! People too often forget that. They just see it as a way to play a game for FREE. And then they come to the forums and bitch when some other chap decides his way to the top of the food chain. Its pathetic...its life.

 

Hi my name's quinticus, and i support my game creator.

no you don't.

you don't help the creators at all by agreeing to an idea that might ruin the whole project.

you very much remind me of the ppl who say "i am american , so i support my president" while exactly this president is ruining your country.

loyalty does not mean to refrain from criticism. quite the opposite.

you may not know, or may not care...but the ppl who oppose to this idea are the ppl who really care about this game...AND about their creators.

and they should know about it when they are about to lose the subscribers of the (hopefully soon to come) P2P version.

[Quinticus]

But the community writing code doesn't pay for new hardware when the server crashes. Or pay for the very forums you are posting on.

-what kind of demand is there for a guild house at $200-250?

-I wouldn't pay that kind of money if i was a guild leader. And i certainly complement those who would do that for their members.

-soldus...did you not read the others about the law of diminishing marginal utility? it's a self defeating purpose, this buying stats for characters.

[Wytter]

I completely agree. Selling stats and items are a great idea. If i had the money, i'd give it to these people (and when i do, i will).

This is just about the opposite of the point with my post ;-) I talked about the unwillingness amongst the majority of the EL community to donate WITHOUT getting stats or items in return.

 

I do not believe that selling stats is a good idea. I believe that selling features and items in-game is a necissary evil due to people's ignorance and unwillingness to donate to the game without "getting something in return". The need for getting something in return is pure ignorance as people have already gotten one of the greatest games ever created in return - now it should be the time for them to give their (moneterial) THANKS to the people involved with the project. Sadly that's not how the world works, and I think that it's a sad reflection of our society.

[Quinticus]

*sigh* people will only believe what they want to believe. I've cited a natural law that will work...but you guys only let your fears run away with you.

[Soldus]

-soldus...did you not read the others about the law of diminishing marginal utility? it's a self defeating purpose, this buying stats for characters.

lol, i did

but that just proves my point, this idea would ruin the complete project...

even you say those ppl would leave in the end...

but that doesn't help the game anymore when the builders and keepers of the comunity left already for this ... there would be no comunity left.

and without that ppl just play rpgs ... you get nice collections for 9.95 and need no costly broadband traffic for them... go figure

[Platyna]

I am not playing games to swim in RL shit. So don't give me stuff like "Welcome in real world."

If it will be that fairl and crappy like "real world" no one will even want to pay for this because we have

that crap IRL for free - with 3d models, houses and cooking raw meat.

 

Regards.

[Quinticus]

i don't understand why people would leave. The fun of it is playing the game and Building the character. Anyone who doesn't see that is looking for the wrong game. They can, by the same token, go buy an off the shelf game and use the cheats for it.

 

~perhaps i'm missing something, but i would never leave because of some snot nosed rich guy. I have too much fun playing my character.