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Frei

"economy"...

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Heya,

 

First of, I admit, I am fairly new to this game as I have played it less then a month. I do not know all maps nor skills. On the other hand, I feel that I have already extended the limits of this game in two skills at a 'low' level.

 

With a little bit of strategy, it is fairly easy to gain ~30 manufacturing and crafting, which in turn lets you make the best armor and jewelry available in this game (with some failure rates, but that does not really matter).

 

Eternal Lands currently has around 300 players online, I would estimate around 2000 active players? (maybe i am off there by a bit...). Even given the above mentioned failure rates, and taking into account the occasional downgrading/breaking of armor, it only takes less then a handful of people to create ALL and MORE supplies then all those active players will ever need in the matter of short time. Then a vast abundance of this armor/jewlery is created, and there will be absolutely NO market for it at all.

 

This means the price is determined by NPC's. They always have coins to buy. However, there is one big dilemma: They do not buy our finished products. No NPC will buy medallions or titanium armor and weapons. This means the price goes down to the next level, the NPC price of materials.

 

Blacksmith's buy Titanium bars for 60 coins each, which will at this rate very soon be the base price for all armor, if it isn't already. We are down to 2000 coins for a Titanium Chain or Long weapon, which is close to this prace taken in account the failure rates.

 

For crafting it looks even worse, even though it may not yet completely look that way. No NPC buys medallions, and their breakage rate is even lower then the ones of weapons/armor. I do not believe crafters could even sell their polished gems? I might be wrong here.

 

My point of this post is, that there needs to be a better way for players to sell their FINISHED wares, not their raw materials that they gathered. This would encourage much more levelling in other skills instead of relying on harvesting/alchemy to make money. With more players come a lot more wares. Maybe a smart way to go about this would be to introduce a magic/alchemy spell to convert any item to a set amount of coins (depending on the item, of course).

 

This post might be a little ahead in time of a problem that does not fully exist yet, but at this rate, without some change in the system, it will come unevitably.

 

There might be other ways to go about this problem, and I strongly suggest we/the developpers start thinking about a solution.

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npcs buying any excess items made in the process of levelling would be a start.

 

that way there is a way for extra unwanted items to disappear from the market; people selling to npcs finally have access to instant cash without having to compete with other makers to constantly lower their prices; and in this way the npc would effectively set the minimum selling price for any item.

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...This post might be a little ahead in time of a problem that does not fully exist yet, but at this rate, without some change in the system, it will come unevitably....

Before the crash, the economy was in dire straits. Items were going for pittence and it was quite easy to make the amounts needed.

 

(I recall buying Tit. Mining and Tit. Moulding for 200gc from someone).

 

Yes your right, something does need to be done, and quick.

 

"The future lyes in the proles!"

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Dude, the old economy had a lot of coins and everything went dont the toilet. You were able to sell serps to trik for.. um how much was it? and tit longs also, so manufacturers had TONS of money, alchemist also, you could sell tit bars to manufacturers at 20 or 25k EACH =). YOu could sell beaver fur at 10k each =) Everything went up, and it would get worse, so economy was changed in the way to limit the money income to keep the prices sane. So now money actually is worth something

Its not perfect but it is a lot better than it used to be. At least you can sell more crap now, when items are breaking

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The old econmy with stuff..sold to trik was ..better....trik should buy everything again. The manuers wont get tons of money..cos of the serp stones..and the conts books. :P

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Blacksmith's buy Titanium bars for 60 coins each, which will at this rate very soon be the base price for all armor, if it isn't already. We are down to 2000 coins for a Titanium Chain or Long weapon, which is close to this prace taken in account the failure rates

 

 

I get my tit chain and longs... and serps for free. I just give people the materials.

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Blacksmith's buy Titanium bars for 60 coins each, which will at this rate very soon be the base price for all armor, if it isn't already. We are down to 2000 coins for a Titanium Chain or Long weapon, which is close to this prace taken in account the failure rates

 

 

I get my tit chain and longs... and serps for free. I just give people the materials.

er and i get mine from spock so mine are free also... Spock your so kind :ph34r:

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The manuers wont get tons of money..cos of the serp stones..and the conts books. :ph34r:

books you only need once. and they'd switch to making the titanium long swords.

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America has been already discovered...several times! Gratz, Cristopher Frei Columb! ;-D

We just need less "market jesus" people who are selling items so cheap to "make community happy"

(unless the community is living in their pockets. :ph34r:).

 

Regards.

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I don't think it's about people selling stuff for cheap prices, which is in my opinion still due to the selling bots, because the market is flooded with items. I get a selling message like every 3 mins or so now. But anyway, I won't make this a discussion about bots again, so here's my solution: make every item as hard to manufacture as a serp sword. They should make something like a serp stone for every item you can produce, perhaps dropped by monsters or something else. I know this will work, cause the price for a tit long nowadays is like 2k, while a serp sword is 10-12k.

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America has been already discovered...several times! Gratz, Cristopher Frei Columb! ;-D

We just need less "market jesus" people who are selling items so cheap to "make community happy"

(unless the community is living in their pockets. ;)).

 

Regards.

I hope you are not suggesting we need more people that sell their items at inflated prices for their own great benefit?

 

A solely player-controlled economy, as nice as it would be, is impossible. Even in the real world, prices are not purely set by sellers. There is a good bit of government control. All I was suggesting is to have the game control the base price RANGE of items by npc's buying and optimally also selling all items.

 

We already have this for essences, and it seems to work just fine. Nobody will sell essences for less then they would get at the magic shop, and nobody will buy for more then the magic shop will sell. The price within this range is then determined by supply and demand, and everybody can be happy.

 

The only exception to this rule should be RARE items, that can NOT be mass produced, such as Titanium Serpent Swords or rare books. However even those prices will fall unevitably if the amount of drops is bigger then the amount of players that will actively play this game.

 

I know you, teh banned 0n3na, are mad at me for selling Moon Medallions so cheap. However you have to admit that the price to make such an item is ~100-200 gc at best. You were selling them for 1500 (possibly even for more before I joined this game). It was fairly easy for me to mass-produce those medallions even at a low level. I could, and if nothing will be changed, will sell those at production cost, purely to level my skills and get back the money I put into them.

 

I do realize this is hurting the crafter's way of making money, and that's why I suggested alternative solutions before I resort to such drastic measures. However, I feel it is wasted to have large amounts of medallions and armor in storage. I know I will never use that many. I also know I will never be able to sell them at such an inflated price. There is no NPC to buy them. My only way right now, would be to sell them for a constantly lowering price, until it is that low that everyone will be able to afford them.

 

This might not necessarily be a bad thing, but there will be no bottom line such as Iron shields have. Noone will ever sell iron shields for <400 gc (the price Trik pays).

 

You are welcome to flame me for my 'lack of knowledge of this game' or playing 'market jesus', but I honestly could care less; deep inside I know that your accusations, teh banned 0n3na, are just reflecting YOUR true inner self. You are the one constantly trying to 'set' prices for your items, even for the items you buy. You try to convince people to sell you Enriched life essences for 1k because ''that is what they are worth'', while other people happily pay 2.5-3k for one. You really need a reality check on your point of view.

 

However, I will not deny that such people are NEEDED in a game to define prices, but in my opinion no one person should FORCE their prices onto others, except the developpers. And this is where I was asking for a change, because otherwise it will just be a battle of who can sell things the cheapest, and newcomers will be totally discouraged even attempting to produce these items.

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No one says you are not right. But:

1. It is a suggestion. Suggestions belongs to suggestions section of this forum.

2. It is suggestion which has been posted zillion times, but you haven't bothered to read it.

 

I have 15k polished sapphires...and no dang idea what to do with it...Hmz...

 

Regards.

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well, we could let the npc's buy all the items and the prices can be controlled, but that's exactly why the game 'resetted': because some people got really really rich. Best way to solve that is to reduce the amount of items offered in the market. So higher required lvl's to make them or rare ingredients.

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I think if NPCs buyed all the items it would ruin the economy completly.

Economy means trade between players not trade with NPCs.

Giving enough time everybody would get lots of coins... that only leads to one thing - inflation. As it has been said 1000 times you need to find ways to take out both gold and items from the game... NPCs literally create the money they give - think about what happens if your goverment started to print money when it needed some more, to understand why generally encuraging selling to NPCs is a BAD ideea.

And teh banned 0n3na is right for once, you are being iresponsable playing "market jesus" as she said.

Ofcourse you can force the prices down by selling at low places, "because it dosen't cost you much to do it", and to fight your competition, but as you've seen yourself, it only works in the short-term, in the long term you're hurtin everybody including yourself. Because it's much harder to raise the prices back up again when the market is flooded.

I have 0 crafting and no intention of getting into it anytime soon and i was still bugged by it ingame (and made a point not to buy from your bot even when i actually needed that medallion).

Now Ent has enough levers he can use to control the economy, such as the items wear rate and the NPC prices for the lower-level things. So the prices won't ever really drop below the combined costs of the components for example.

But I think this should be a truely free market, where prices are set by supply and demand. You want to keep making a profit ? Well do your part, rather then expacting NPCs buying everything you produce at a high enough price for you to make a profit, magically making money for you out of thin air.

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well, we could let the npc's buy all the items and the prices can be controlled, but that's exactly why the game 'resetted': because some people got really really rich. Best way to solve that is to reduce the amount of items offered in the market. So higher required lvl's to make them or rare ingredients.

Well you can also created NPCs who will give you very expensive services:

Enchanting two edged: 1 EFE, modable two edged, 50k.

;-D

 

Regards.

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the problem is that there is no perfect solution. if there was then we would be useing it in real life allready.

 

say we let the npcs adjust sell-to-player and buy-from-player prices depending on the amount of gold in the game. then some asshole can accumulate gold and drive the prices into the ground and act as a loanshark for everyone else in the game (not very likely at the start but as the person becomes better at makeing stuff he can basicly corner the market).

 

one way of control that is in the game is that food is used when a person makes stuff and so on. only problem there is that you can currently harvest some of the best food in the game for free. now if harvested food only gave 1-5 points when used people would flock to taverns to buy food and burn money on that.

 

there is allso the factor that monsters drop fully useable weapons and armors at times. this leads to warriors that are selfsupplyed without needing to learn how to make items. this then force said item prices down as warriors can sell at virtualy no loss (excluding healing and so on). instead what should be dropped are ore, bars and similar parts that can be sold of or used to make said weapons. only weapons or armors dropped should be items that cant be made and they should be tightly tracked so that only a set number can be in game at one time. these items will then draw a lot of cash as they are truely rare (not just rarely dropped).

 

how the above would work? have a counter that counts down every time a item of the kind its track is dropped by a monster. then if the same item is sold to a npc or dropped in a bag that vanishes then the counter is increased by one again.

 

hmm, maybe something similar could be used for plants and other harvestable items? say there are 10000000 flowers of one kind in the game. every time one i plucked the number decrease. when used to make something. sold to a npc or dropped in a bag that vanish the number increase. sure some asshole can try and gather them all but what if you can only store a limited number for them? he would either have to create a lot of chars to stockpile the stuff or similar. and if it becomes a problem then maybe we can have the game strip stored items of harvestable kind that is stored for a length of time (a small amount at a time).

 

hmm, or maybe use the system for gold? and any gold stored over time is reduced when the ingame cash reserve runs low as a kind of tax :P

 

im just rambleing here, but controling economy is a damn hard thing. we have not pulled it of in real life and i have yet to have heard of any mmorpg that have pulled it of...

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I understand that it is not nice to sell them at lower and lower prices, but not one person has yet suggested an alternative. I have made around 400 or more moon med's in one day's time. What am I supposed to do with them, if not sell cheap to players and give away? Keep them all for me? I don't think so. And if I ever decide to level my crafting because some people here seem to judge you by your levels, expect me to make many, many, many more of them.

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This is why every crafter is making disengagement and damage rings. It sell well for 200 gc, is useful

for fighters, gives good exp and can be used only one. Now crafters - who has only item who was

sold really good and fighters who gets it as loot for monsters dislike you.

Also you've dumped sun medallions market because who will buy sun medallion for 500 gc if he can

have moon one for 500 gc?

That you've made 400 moon medallions is a living evidence you have no idea about economy...

because (lets count you made 800 moon medallions out materials for 400 moon medallion what is

impossible at your low level - you had to waste like 1.5 - 2k silver bars to make it.):

 

400 moon medallions = 1200 silver bars = 400x100 = 40000 exp

1200 silver bars = 600 silver rings = 600 disengagement rings. = 120x600 = 72000 exp

 

You will NEVER ON EARTH sell 400 moon medallions even for 500 gc each. NOT POSSIBLE.

But...I've sold 1000 disengagement rings in two days, every time I will fill Linux with these rings it is

dissapearing very fast. When Linux was turned off due to bug I had to turn her on all the time because

people were asking to buy rings.

Conclussion:

- You smeged up your leveling

- 2 groups of players hates you

- You wasted ALOT of money.

- You dumped another sector of market, one of few which was doing preety well.

- Calculator & EL Encyclopedia are useful things. :P

 

Regards.

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I did not fail half. Not even anywhere close, as I started to make them once I reached the recommended level. That's why I didn't make disengagement rings which are higher level and I would fail more.

 

Maybe this is part of the problem too. A big part I would say. Level requirements in this game are way too low. Moon meds should have a recommended level of 60 to really have the value you portrayed onto them. Not 24, which you can reach in a very quick time. The same is also for manufacturing. Level 40 is the highest recommended, yet people have this level or close to it already a few months(? not sure) after a big reset. What else is left to do for them if not mass produce the best item they can make to gain experience....

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This is why every crafter is making disengagement and damage rings. It sell well for 200 gc, is useful

for fighters, gives good exp and can be used only one. Now crafters - who has only item who was

sold really good and fighters who gets it as loot for monsters dislike you.

Also you've dumped sun medallions market because who will buy sun medallion for 500 gc if he can

have moon one for 500 gc?

That you've made 400 moon medallions is a living evidence you have no idea about economy...

because (lets count you made 800 moon medallions out materials for 400 moon medallion what is

impossible at your low level - you had to waste like 1.5 - 2k silver bars to make it.):

 

400 moon medallions = 1200 silver bars = 400x100 = 40000 exp

1200 silver bars = 600 silver rings = 600 disengagement rings. = 120x600 = 72000 exp

 

You will NEVER ON EARTH sell 400 moon medallions even for 500 gc each. NOT POSSIBLE.

But...I've sold 1000 disengagement rings in two days, every time I will fill Linux with these rings it is

dissapearing very fast. When Linux was turned off due to bug I had to turn her on all the time because

people were asking to buy rings.

Conclussion:

- You smeged up your leveling

- 2 groups of players hates you

- You wasted ALOT of money.

- You dumped another sector of market, one of few which was doing preety well.

- Calculator & EL Encyclopedia are useful things. :P

 

Regards.

It's funny how you respond to the moon meds and the serps swords dropping. Is it because those were your main sources of money and now that you lost them, you feel lonely?

 

I for one have nothing against Frei and 500gc moon meds sounds nice to me. Too bad I use the uni med to level defense and only moon for attack. :huh:

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15k saphires??? thats 45 trips at 1000emu and i have never seen you at the sapphires. Hmmm who works for you I wanna hire that runner or know who was willing to make at least 65 trips with 700 emu and the time to mine it wow musta took a week,,,as for the economy I myself am broke atm but all it takes is an hour to make 10-20k if you really work things. Myself I am about to do a few dy project to make almost 300k so i will be ok for a week or 2..hehe well u know me i have empty pockets lol and plat sorry that wasnt a flame i am for real i would like to hire that harvester

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You try to convince people to sell you Enriched life essences for 1k because ''that is what they are worth'', while other people happily pay 2.5-3k for one. You really need a reality check on your point of view.

 

 

 

 

No one says you are not right. But:

1. It is a suggestion. Suggestions belongs to suggestions section of this forum.

2. It is suggestion which has been posted zillion times, but you haven't bothered to read it

 

 

HAHAHA!!!!! that is like saying topic on the boards, oh palt your a great laugh, though your right but lol it's so funny. really does it matter what board it is, i mean it's a flame war, lets put it on the flames board shall we?

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Frei, I am 44 of crafting, you think I was that crazy to make medallions and rings?

I was dang polishing sapphires till I didn't got recommended for particular rings.

Otherwise I'd kill myself with finances. This is RPG you have to think and count a bit. ;-P

Sapphires are teh r0x00r. ;-)

Spock: Topic or not topic that suggestion has been posted zillion times so I can get

bored, can't I? And it is not a flame war. We are discussing.

 

Regards.

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