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Silver, Alchemy, and money

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It seems that you can make money too easily once you have alchemy up high enough to do silver bars. If you do it right, you can make 150plat per hour by yourself and a small group could make even more per person with only one having alchemy up high enough.

 

Removing the coal from the Quartz Mines wouldn't help because its almost faster to buy coal from Harv already (and depositing silver bars at the same time).

 

I don't know what all the options are, but some include:

 

1. Moving Harv farther from Grim & the mines

2. Moving the Silver mine location, maybe to another/new cave?

3. Moving the Coal mine location (not very good)

4. Increase the silver ore (and maybe the coal) needed to make bars

5. Make the silver bars be 3emu (doesn't help much)

6. More then one of the above.

7. Add one or two aggressive monsters to the Mine (probably not a good idea). Even weak ones, to disrupt production.

 

At least gold and titanium have threats and are farther from the coal.

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The problem stems further deeper into the Eternal-Lands' economy and item cost/sell-back prices.

 

The first thing which must be done is to lower the buy-back prices (of NPCs) of all the metal bars by 3-600 gold each.

 

- My Prices -

Iron Bars - 400g

Steel Bars - 600g

Silver Bars - 800g

 

Here are my Figures:

* This is if you mine your own iron ore *

 

- Known facts -

145 Iron bars in 45 minutes (w/ Coal deliverer/harveser)

435 coal needed to produce 145 iton bars

 

 

- Current Prices -

145 iron bars x 700 gold = 101,500 gold

435 coal x 60g per piece = 26,100 gold

 

101,500 gold - 26,100 gold = 75,400 gold in 45 minutes

 

 

- Adjusted Prices -

145 x 400 = 58,000 gold

435 coal x 60g per piece = 26,100 gold

 

58,000 gold - 26,100 gold = 31,900 gold in 45 minutes

 

 

In just iron bars that's a cut of over 50% of "new" money into the game.

 

Now for a big fault in the Economy is the "drops" by offensive creatures. Item drops should not include high prices items/equipment as they do now. Instead they should have a randomization of the following:

 

- Goblins -

200-300g

Potion of Defense

 

- Gargoyles -

5-8 platinum

Potion of physique

Potion of defense

 

etc.

 

The reason being is that having monsters drop such prized armor/equipment makes players less likely to spend their money at the shops. This keeps more money within the game, and causes a steady inflation.

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First, the high level players, that spent a LOT of time on harvest/alchemy should be rich.

Second, the drops, well, they are relatively rare. Besides, there will be some new, very expensive items soon.

I want to ahve some sort of socialist economy: Pretty much everyone should afford the basics, and only those who work very hard afford high stuff.

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First, the high level players, that spent a LOT of time on harvest/alchemy should be rich.

Second, the drops, well, they are relatively rare. Besides, there will be some new, very expensive items soon.

I want to ahve some sort of socialist economy: Pretty much everyone should afford the basics, and only those who work very hard afford high stuff.

 

Those that work hard will still be amongst the most wealthy, but right now pretty much everyone can amass great wealth.

 

The system in place at the moment is propostorous in scale. If you manage the economy & game state correctly you can achieve what you want without it being such a free for all.

 

My example only showed how big of a profit someone can gain from just iron bars. Once they are able to make Silver bars, the skys is the limit. There is no need to continue any other means of gathering funds since you can easily make over 500 plat a day.

 

Eternal-lands has great potential, but mis-management of an intrigual part such as the in-game economy will wreak havok.

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Simply put , I do not agree with lowering buy back prices.

 

1) If i can make silver bars - i've earned the right to a fair profit on my investment of time. Personally i have just lost 3 days getting alchemy to silver-bar level - while alot of other people are stutting around bragging about their combat stats.

 

I sacrificed what gains i could have made over three days to raise my alchemy. And the suggestion to lower buy back price is basically saying - i should lose three days of combat stats to raise other skills - and get paid nothing for giving them up.

 

I don't see any problem with the buy back prices the way they are now.

 

What I made from the bars after 2 hours of mining/smelting - went right back into raising my magic level. It cost me over 80,000 to raise Magic from level 19 to 20 and another 80,000 to go from 20 to 21.

 

The reason i focused on alchemy and harvest first, was so that i could finance training the rest of my skills up.

 

When skills exceed level 20, raising them by one point costs 80-100,00.

 

When they exceed lvl 30 it costs over 500,000 to raise a skill one single point. Ask someone with 40+ alchemy skill how many essences they had to make and how many days they had to make them instead of doing other "fun" stuff. And lets not forget Manufacturing. If you want manufacturing to advance after lvl 32, you better have over a million to spend on components.

 

I think the buy back prices should be left as they are.

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the system is pretty good now.....its been tweaked so much in its lifetime lets just let it live a while :(

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the problem is, there's a limitless demand for what players sell. we all moved tons of iron, coal, silver etc. but npcs keep buying more. i think that there should be less npcs involved in trading, and some better way for players to trade with each other. then there would be no problem with ppl making loads of cash off selling tons of silver bars, if there wasn't anyone who would require tons of silver bars. and if there was, he would have to have cash for it.it would work like a real economy.self balancing.

 

and for christ's sake, entropy, socialist economy isn't "everybody can afford to buy something". socialists believe that whole society should be directed. someone at the top making plans, deciding about the objectives for the whole society a forcing ppl into precise actions to accomplish those objectives. that's socialism.nothing more, nothing less. i hope that player based economy would have a more "free" approach:-)

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I think Entropy meant a 'social' economy, not a socialist/communist economy. In a social economy, even the poorest can afford basic nessecities as food, water and basic housing.

 

I think that the current sellback prices are okay. I have been busting my ass for 3 weeks now to work on Alchemy and I am still half a level away from creating steel bars. When I finally do make it, I am allowed to earn a lot of money. Thusfar, it has cost me roughly 200k to get this far (if not more). Also, I still only have 17/17/17 combat because I worked on Alchemy so much.

 

And judging from all the market chatting in EL, there seems to be deflation rather than inflation. When I joined, I would sell rabbit furs for 250-300 gold per fur. When I started buying them (for manu leveling) I paid 150-200 per fur. The current price is about 100 gold per fur. Maybe it will go back up a little due to the summoning skill, but I doubt that it will reach the old price of 300 gp again. And the same goes for other products as well. Chain armor and swords have become a lot cheaper since the start.

 

I think Entropy is doing the right thing. Don't lower prices or make things more expensive. That will only annoy people. Instead, give players more opportunity to spend more money. Just wait untill the new high-level items, player guilds or player houses.

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Simply put , I do not agree with lowering buy back prices.

I think the buy back prices should be left as they are.

 

i DEFINATLY AGREE on this. i dont make silver bars as you all do.

i simply mine silver and sell to harv. this would COMPLEATLY

frick up my money making system if it was changed.

~

and besides.. it doesnt matter how far you move them.. they will just buy rings and make -1k every run.

going by this.~

you have caused them to make 1k less an hour. wow. and you caused me to lose any money making abilities that i had.

~~~~~~~~~

so.. make them lose 1k a run or more people like I's livelihood

(rebel,spiritus,quite a few others just mine and sell)

 

im done.

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sander what exactly your basic nessecities are? food, watter, basic housing. none of these are needed in this game. second, what exactly is the best way to secure these in the real world? that's the question philosophers and later economists( economics was part of philosophy some time ago ) are arguing about from the dawn of time.

basic nessecities is a term that can't be determined. is electricity a basic nessecitie? it is in our society, it isn't in the rest of the world. it is solely cultural and subjective term. and i'm far from forcing my beliefs onto the rest of you.

also, how do you want to provide them? market economy, directive economy, self made, waiting for god to provide them. many ways, none sure. there is a drawback for every one of these ways.

but in this game there are no nessecities. you can't starve to death. you can't die of old age. you don't have to fight if you don't want. anything you need you can make yourself. it takes time, true, but you don't need anyone else. if you want to provide "nessecities" you have to determine what these are. anything you provide that way will restrict player based economy and there isn't exactly loads of stuff players can offer to one another. i'm just affraid that whole concept of player based economy will result in jevik selling tit serpents, because rest of it is going to become a "nessecitie". you have to see, that every item you're going to provide as a "nessecitie" will limit some player from providing that item to other ppl, thus limiting player based economy.

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I think that the prices are fine, if people can afford to buy thing whats the big deal? You guys just want to pk players eaier lol, thats all. Get over it money making is good. Problem with the RL is that 90% of the entire worlds money is held by about 17 people (no joke, based on research I read 2 weeks ago).

 

This game, wow so about 1000 people have over 1000 plat (1 million gold), look out now. So what so your ideas of manufaturing swords has been cut down on the prices because people are richer, oh well thats life lol, deal with it.

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Guest kuzman
I think that the prices are fine, if people can afford to buy thing whats the big deal?

 

I have noticed also that money is too easy to make in this game. The reason that might no t be a great thing is that whatever is really easy becomes boring pretty quickly. Should money making in-game be lots of fun.. I don't know. What I do know i s that I've been on about 4-5 silver runs, and now I have enough money for everything I want (OK, so I can't have a serpent sword, but I don't want one -- it would just reduce the amount of experience I can get).

 

I was thinking of an in-game market place system that would automatically determine prices. Basically this would mean having an NPC who would both buy and sell items. The prices would depend on how much people are buying and selling: if more is being sold, prices drop; more bought prices go up.

 

So what so your ideas of manufaturing swords has been cut down on the prices because people are richer, oh well thats life lol, deal with it.

 

The problem arises if this means that there are less things to do in the game. I can make so much money on silver that I have no motivation to learn to make gold, platinum. I have enough money so I don't even need to make silver. Now all I have to do is hunt. Once I can kill everything, the game has become a large chat room. That's not necessarily boring -- just not as diverse in interesting stuff as a game.

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start learning magic my freind, that can burn your moeny fast (nothing like expandables to do that)...

 

i think part of hte problem is that stuff stays, if i buy myself a sword i have it until i loose it in a fools fight (not likely) or that i buy myself a stronger word.

 

i like the fact that food level impacts on failure rate now, that means people will be burning money on food. problem is that food is cheap...

 

so if weapon and armor was to loose quality over time then people would have to continualy burn money to keep theyre items up to specs...

 

or some other similar way of continualy removeing money of people.

 

i dont like changeing prices as that have a bad habbing of getting shifted around a lot and may ruin the game for latecommer as the economy is so of tilt that they cant get any gold what so ever...

 

so the question becomes, what do we introduce that can continualy keep people burning money?

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- My Prices -  

Iron Bars - 400g  

Steel Bars - 600g  

Silver Bars - 800g

Not sure about the first 2, but then silver bars would be useless. Just about all they are good for is money. Anyway, you can sell silver ore for 100. You can buy coal for 30. it takes 8 silver and 3 coal for 1 bar. That equals 890. In that way, i would lose 90 and pretty much just be wasting my time.

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