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Designated Guaranteed Invasion-Safe Spots

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3 minutes ago, Burn said:

What part of "suggestions" are you not understanding?

This isn't a change... yet. It's a suggestion. NAME OF THE FORUM.

We don't block talk just because you don't like it.

 

Instead of talking about it, you're complaining that you can't do what you want.

Every suggestion is a possible change. Your post is "change is bad, so don't discuss suggestions".

 

I gave a starting point. It's already been whittled down, and now for some reason you're saying it can't be discusssed at all because it takes away an incredibly tiny portion of the overall maps and that for some reason pisses you off to no end. I see nothing of value coming from you other than that you fear change, especially if it makes even the tiniest dent into what mods might be able to do.

Every single update has added more places for you to invade than this tiny list of places.

And as such, I can't care. If no one gets to discuss things, start with you.

Lol..... at least unlike the last post I made you did reply to this one. Shame you didn't understand it.

#igiveup

#leavingchannel

#leavingplanet

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And no care was given. If you want to shut down discussion just because you disagree, that's your problem, and yours alone.

 

 

* YOU have taken it upon yourself to add safe areas.

 

No. I have posted a suggestion for designating places that are already treated by players as safe areas to be marked as such.

 

* YOU have taken it upon yourself to determine what these safe areas are to be. 

 

No. I have taken it upon myself to list the areas PLAYERS have been treating as safe areas for years now. Players made the list not me, with the exception of Zirakinbar which is new.

 

* Have YOU asked any of the mods who run invasions for a list of where they would not normally put hostile mobs? 

 

It doesn't matter. If you have a tiny list of safe areas, then none of the other locations matter.

 

* Have YOU asked for player discussion as to what safe areas should be?

 

That would be the purpose of putting this on the forum instead of just sending a Facebook PM to radu. So far, you've been completely unhelpful, doing nothing but whining that it might slightly limit you in some way.

 

* No?  Then why on earth are you surprised when people have a pop at you? 

What I'm not surprised about is the biggest complaint being that moderators might be even remotely limited in any way... over places that are already not invaded because there's almost always people in them. Even coming from someone who claims they never "willingly go after AFKers".

 

 

 

 

Now, Aislinn and I seem to have come to an agreement that inside storages and a safe house near outside storages is acceptable. That's literally all that's being discussed at this point. We managed to get that far. What part of that are you complaining about?

Edited by Burn

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2 hours ago, Burn said:

Now, Aislinn and I seem to have come to an agreement that inside storages and a safe house near outside storages is acceptable.

That's not quite how I read her post.

For me, it meant that inside storages and a few other areas should not get aggressive invasion monsters. I most certainly did NOT get

the impression she was in favour of getting that "officialised" in the form of a general rule, map annotation or compass message. But I'm

sure she'll correct me if I am mistaken.

 

As for attempts to shut down this discussion, you have been trying to do

exactly that since your second post. ANY criticism your proposal received

(note: your proposal, not you personally) was met with insinuations about motivation, accusations of the criticism being organised etc.

 

I agree with Raz here:

3 hours ago, Raz said:

#igiveup

#leavingchannel

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Eh, not a fan. If you decide to log off in a random house and this said random house gets invaded, then it’s just not your lucky day lol.  If you’re really worried about dying, store all your stuff in the storage before you log.  I guess you’ll lose a little bit of dignity haha. Or if you really want, you can store all of your stuff in the storage, then go into a random house. 

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14 hours ago, Burn said:

This literally "puts some words" on places without actually changing anything because it is already the norm. I don't get why that's so hard of a concept to grasp.

 

If I had to pick between 'puts some words on places without actually changing anything' and how it is now.

 

I pick how it is now.

Edited by Diealot

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I am all for some official Invasion free Areas Full stop. Then people can go afk and stay in game at some places. I as a player need to be regularly AF K for periods of times, as i do have a RL too. I try to be it naked and at a storage, but depending on situation i am prone to go into a nearby house or simply stay on a map if it needs to be really fast and i forgot about #disco. I am not a fan of Invasions where i see the Moderator Login choose  a map drop 5k Monsters on it and leave without checking if anyone is on the map. If it is hard to check for that there should be maybe a 5 min or 10 min warning before you make those monsters aggressive. A official save location would make people happy.

 

I did in the past ask moderators why they did not invade now and then Hydro cave or other spots where alts of Stivy did hide, when he was more active in blocking the hydro route. And the answer back then was, they are not supposed to do that on maps where chars are afk.

Now i see Invasions happening by moderators who log in announce Invasion drop 5k creatures on the map and log out again.

 

Make some rules. and follow them. Just add some save locations where people can be sure they do not get invaded on even if it is halloween or some other invasion holyday where the normal rules did not apply in the past.

 

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There are already some known safe areas, just not in an official list. That you may not have time to go there is a completely different matter.

Basically, what you request comes down to "don't invade any area where someone is AFK".

 

Going AFK in a random house:  obliging the invasion mods to check every single house they plan to invade for AFKers means they won't invade such places,

as it basically doubles the time needed to prepare and start such an invasion. That is not to say most won't make a reasonable effort to avoid places with

someone AFK.
Going AFK outside: no mod is going to check a whole map for AFK'ers. In addition, what are you going to do about "acid rain" or "solare flares",

they should be removed as well?

 

The situation you describe about not invading certain spots had some context: it was about maps where we know players are e.g. AFK training, or not actively playing,

not about situations where someone might be AFK.  In other words, we are not supposed to target players (e.g. AFK trainers in VotD gold mine), which is reasonable.

 

 

This kind of thing, in combination with the continuous hassle with overcappers (and the whining if you request them to respect the rules...),

constant requests for invasions (or demands! and not always the most polite either, making invasion is not a duty for any moderator), and

complaints when some parts were more difficult than expected, made me stop trying to (learn how to) make  invasions.

And nothing I see here helps to revise that decision.

Edited by revi

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Everything except officially designating as safe all indoor storages (already done by radu when he got ticked over Ace's invading them years back) and the nearest indoor location to outdoor storages (pretty much the only actual addition, a very limited one at that) has already been removed from the discussion for those who have actually bothered attempting to read rather than getting pissy over any possible limitation on moderator actions.

 

It's only the moderators that keep bringing everything else back up after it's already been deemed dead. Get the hell over it.

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2 hours ago, vinoveritas said:

depending on situation i am prone to go into a nearby house or simply stay on a map

 

1 hour ago, Burn said:

bothered attempting to read

 

1 hour ago, Burn said:

It's only the moderators that keep bringing everything else back up after it's already been deemed dead.

Not the way I read Vino's comment, but, I get the message

Edited by revi

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't this already decided on?

  • Storages or one house closest to storage will be designated on the maps as officially safe and invasion mods will respect that.
  • "Safe" still allows for fun things such as invisible rats or shy rats or things that don't hurt players.
  • Moderators are not going to be expected to check every house or cave or harvestable spot before invading. That's just silly. A little common sense and personal responsibility go a long way.

 

 

Edited by Aislinn
Added "officiallly".

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2 hours ago, Aislinn said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't this already decided on?

  • Storages or one house closest to storage will be designated on the maps as officially safe and invasion mods will respect that.
  • "Safe" still allows for fun things such as invisible rats or shy rats or things that don't hurt players.
  • Moderators are not going to be expected to check every house or cave or harvestable spot before invading. That's just silly. A little common sense and personal responsibility go a long way.

 

 

re point 1 : Not seen any confirmation that anywhere other than the indoor storages are 'safe'.  

(and certainly not an agreed definitive list of what those places are)

 

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2 minutes ago, Raz said:

re point 1 : Not seen any confirmation that anywhere other than the indoor storages are 'safe'.  

(and certainly not an agreed definitive list of what those places are)

 

 

Indoor storages themselves would be "safe", and outdoor storages would have the nearest building designated as "safe".

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6 hours ago, Kaddy said:

Why are you arguing about this in a public forum?

 

So people know what's going on and what they can expect and how the process works and how decisions are made?  Lol. Damned if we do and damned if we don't.  :P

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Also, Burn is not a moderator (look under his avatar, and compare to e.g. mine or Aislinn's).

And he opened the topic...

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I am not sure this is needed, most players know that inside storages are safe from invasions.

Anyway, if you really want to do it, fine, but ONLY inside storages, and only their building.

 

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2 hours ago, Entropy said:

I am not sure this is needed, most players know that inside storages are safe from invasions.

Anyway, if you really want to do it, fine, but ONLY inside storages, and only their building.

 

 

Given that nothing really should change but now that we might be moving to an official policy:

Can we trust that Melinis storage within the walkable area and Iscalrith storage will remain safe for afk?

Are safe invasion mobs ok in indoor stages too?

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4 hours ago, Nogrod said:

 

Given that nothing really should change but now that we might be moving to an official policy:

Can we trust that Melinis storage within the walkable area and Iscalrith storage will remain safe for afk?

Are safe invasion mobs ok in indoor stages too?

Yes - the walkable areas from mel / iscal / glac storage will remain safe from hostile invasion. (Yes I have been known to drop invis rats in glac storage - and a neno in aa of all places!)

Obviously does not apply to the orc cave in glac, nor the part of mel that needs ttr.

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5 hours ago, Nogrod said:

Given that nothing really should change but now that we might be moving to an official policy:

Can we trust that Melinis storage within the walkable area and Iscalrith storage will remain safe for afk?

Are safe invasion mobs ok in indoor stages too?

You already got "safe from invasions" for indoor storages.

Are Mel, Iscal, Glac outside storages?

Are you not safe from invisible (or shy) rats?

 

And are you surprised "the mods" aren't particularly in favour of making this policy explicit?

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I officially don't care nor will I do anything about this suggestion, so all the people who cried like the world was ending over just putting something in writing that players have already been assuming and doing for years can do your dance of joy over it not being done.

Yippee, a teeny tiny little sliver of moderator power will be retained, that's all that actually matters, certain places will remain murky as to whether they're safe for players so mods can fuck with them on their own whims. Why should I care when I wasn't suggesting it for myself in the first place?

 

It's just not worth the stress and effort to even try anything anymore. People yelling and attacking me like this suggestion was something *I* wanted, when all I was trying to do was make things a bit more clearer to players (the horror!), I could give fuck all about it personally. Being made the "big bad" for just trying to help the players by actually having something in writing instead of depending on the whims of moderators is all too literally not a fight my health can handle anymore.


I have been trying to get as much done that could be in map and data files as possible for the next client because I was already doubting I'd touch anything further once 1.9.6 is finally released.

 

The degrading of this "status quo do nothing" situation to a point where even a suggestion this simple,  just adding some wording for players to places that are ALREADY BEING USED FOR THIS PURPOSE not being doable... It's just the perfect final indicator on how terminally pathetic things have gotten, that it's no longer worth the effort to even try and do anything.

 

 

 

I give up. It just too discouraging to do anything anymore. I'm finishing what little I have left to do that's incomplete on work I was already doing for maps, but everything else I'd planned, including more unique graphics for storage items and possibly even some more unique creature designs (already had two potentially done, frost dragon actually looked nice) isn't happening, as I've decided to just wrap up my part of this exercise in futility. And I dread the "change nothing" response they'd most likely get so I won't bother trying to get them approved.


Everybody (except bluap at this point) wants the game to just sit in status-quo land and die. It's not worth the battle to do even the simplest things, like this, a few damn words that would literally have made no change to the status quo even, just made it perfectly clear for the players. The single most horrible thing that could ever be suggested, making things clear for players.

 

(Never mind there's actually questions right here in this damn thread about what's safe or not from players, showing that this is actually a needed idea. But nope, "mod power" is much more important than what players need.)

 

The Suggestion Forum for years now has been nothing but the place where ideas go to die, because of the "let the game die" mentality that has taken over, much more so since updates have completely stopped for 1.5+ years now. Let that happen. I'll handle my part in getting the data ready for the next client release, adding and changing nothing else to what's already been done, but then I'm done. That will be my final development act... Which, granted, will be a huge one as I look at the long list of things I've done since the last official client release.

 

 

And no, I'm not quitting my part of development just because of THIS particular suggestion, as I know those with black-and-white viewing blinders on will take out of this grey situation. Getting literally anything done, not just this, is too much of a battle with no reward. Every single suggestion, from pretty much anyone, gets the exact same "stay status quo never change" mentality response, because a suggestion by its definition requires change, and that can never happen without somebody's panties getting wadded up in a bunch over it.
 

I've never better understood how literally every single volunteer developer (short of bluap now) was driven away, giving up hope on doing anything.

 

 

 

As for this particular suggestion, getting back on topic, there's nothing left to say, it's not happening. I'm refusing to do the wording changes, even if they are somehow deemed wanted. This suggestion is officially dead, right along with the will to do anything more.

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@Burn: you are not attacked here. Some parts of your suggestion were not appreciated, that does not mean any criticism is aimed at you.

 

Specifically, my last post here was to Nogrod, about his desire to have every detail hammered in stone. Which is what made me (and others) reluctant to see

the "safe spots" made official in maps or rules...

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50 minutes ago, Burn said:

I've never better understood how literally every single volunteer developer (short of bluap now) was driven away, giving up hope on doing anything.

 

I don't care for the rest of the complaining, but this is wholly incorrect. Our most recent release (1.9.5p9) had six unique code contributors, and numerous client testers who provided valuable feedback and bug reports.

 

Client development has never been healthier. :)

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Yes, having these as radu said above is fine.  

 

Invisible rats don't attack and should not even be a question.. 99% of players have never seen one or an Ivan...

 

There are plenty of unused maps to invade, so the few with outdoor storages having a designated afk spot is fine with me. 

 

This will even give us ammo when we hear "I dided in invaison afk"  .. and were you in a Safe Space??????????????  

 

I go back to my adult colouring book now 

 

Wiz

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16 hours ago, revi said:

You already got "safe from invasions" for indoor storages.

Are Mel, Iscal, Glac outside storages?

Are you not safe from invisible (or shy) rats?

 

And are you surprised "the mods" aren't particularly in favour of making this policy explicit?

 

I'm not at all surprised Revi and I understand not wanting to make the policy explicit if it leads to so much quibbling but when anything becomes official, people will nitpick and that's why I wanted to get my questions out there: so that we have clarity and hopefully players and mods can avoid some frustration going foward.

 

In the context of radu's statement "Anyway, if you really want to do it, fine, but ONLY inside storages, and only their building. " it is not clear whether Mel and Iscalrith storages are safe because they are in sewers and caves, respectively and we can argue ad-nauseum about what is and isn't a building. 

 

I am safe from invisible and shy rats and I really like it when mods do small things like adding some of these to add a little flavor to the game. What was not clear is whether the phrase "inside storages are safe from invasions" was focused on players being safe or whether or not safe invasion mobs can be put in storages.

 

16 hours ago, Raz said:

Yes - the walkable areas from mel / iscal / glac storage will remain safe from hostile invasion. (Yes I have been known to drop invis rats in glac storage - and a neno in aa of all places!)

Obviously does not apply to the orc cave in glac, nor the part of mel that needs ttr.

 

Thank you Raz for your common sense and direct answers. This is in complete agreement to my understanding of the sprit of radu's comments.

 

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I'll throw my 2 cents in, wth.

 

1 cent

Designated safe spots would be very necessary if your character was online 24/7, whether you were logged in or not. Thankfully, we don't have that problem. For the most part, IP is still the best place to log out. The odds of logging into an invasion and attacked by something strong enough to kill me is extremely low. I'm not saying it won't happen, but highly unlikely.

 

1cent.

I myself wasn't driven away. I will be honest, not having any new content in over a year is disappointing. The last update was very ho hum to me. A dragon shaped casty is not for me. There are lots of things I'd like in an update, but that's another topic. My biggest reason for not being her much is boredom.

 

That's my 2 cents. :D

Good luck!

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