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Kaddy

Control Rosto Prices

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Dear EL'ers,

 

First of all, I want to tell you that I can afford rostos at almost any price, but this topic is not for myself, is I believe for the wellness of EL.

 

Secondly, I want to explain briefly why rosto prices are increasing - me and Wizzy explained in chan6 but probably most of you missed it.

In an open market, value of an item is dependent on 2 things. Number of items in the market and the total market cash stock. So there are 2 only reasons for an item to have an increment on their prices, examples;

1- if market has 10 money and 10 item in first month, then 10 money and 5 item in second, and 10 money and 1 item in the third month; the value of the item will increase.

2- if market has 10 money and 10 item in first month, then 50 money and 10 item in second, and 100 money and 10 item in third month; the value of the item will increase, again.

 

radu in chan6 already told that there are FEWER rosto sales in last months. Which means there are less rostos coming into the game and I believe high percantage of them are for own use. In addition to this, there has been invasions almost everyday which means ALOT of gc is coming into the game, increasing cash stock in the market. So it is likely for rostos to increase in value, which is already happening. It will increase more since the lack of an item in market makes cash holders to hoard them more.

 

Why is it bad for EL?

 

Because %5 of EL can afford buying rostos at any price (without using $$). But that's only %5 and you already see in uncap invasions, only a handful of people fighting invasions everytime. There are alot more high/top level players but they do not want to risk rostos.

Also, it is becoming more and more impossible for a starter-player (not newbie) to afford a rosto with these prices and we already know a few players just quit when they lost some of their gear and we want to have more new players and keep existing players in game to actually have a game to play. I think we are at the point to take any action other than saying "gtfo if you don't like it" because WE NEED PLAYERS.

 

What do I suggest?

 

Well I have 2 suggestions;

1- Make rosto prices at shop 3$ each and make 40 for 100$ sale. This would encourage more and more people to buy rostos off shop, increasing the numbers of rostos in game, would decrease the price and encourage more people to join invasions and die like fr00bs. I think 5$ for a death is quite pricey. I think it's better to have more sales with lower prices than have high prices and really few sales at all since it doesn't really cost anything for radu to produce rostos other than 5 second #code.

 

2- Make a NPC selling rostos. This I really put thought in but this idea itself would hurt shop sales so with this, I suggest to either decrease the number of days to wait to do another daily from 4 to 2 maybe, or increase the exp given by high level dailies to encourage more people to buy passes which shop sells alot (looking at the bot counts). What are the gains? A direct gc sink off NPCs by rostos, would control market and avoid prices to go stupid values, would encourage more people to just go die and buy another off NPC since they will know they wouldn't have to look for a rosto for days or pay 150k to a bot.

 

To the second idea, people like FairyTail would rage at, thinking I want fast levels but this is really not about myself at all. Let newbies get some faster levels, decrease grinding time, let them enjoy the fighting part of the game earlier coz no offense but mixers don't burn rostos at all. :P

 

 

Well, love or hate, I don't mind. I just want a game that survives and continues to exist so speaking up the things that I think would be the best for it.

 

-Kaddy

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One factor I didn't see in those discussions was the effect of gc sales: rosto price closely followed the rate of gc/$.

Which means that the in-game factors did not have all that much effect (same for haidir passes, btw).

 

I don't expect NPCs will ever be allowed to sell rosto's, tbh.

 

If the aim is to have more new players get into fighting, perhaps have NPC's sell "mini" rosto's that only protect gear

up to human nexus 5 or 6. That would exclude the invasion gear like the dragon armours and some of the better

weapons (it might need some revision of the nexus requirements for weapons).

Those mini-rosto's could also be a shop item for say $2-$3.

So they would be more accessible for lower level players, and give a better balance between cost and benefit;

there's a big difference between losing a 100kgc stone to protect 500k or less, and losing that same stone to protect

2-3M or more.

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In my view Haidir passes are the big culprit for the shop sales in general. A haidir pass bought for 0.5 us Dollar generates 14-15kgc so the GC/dollar rate with that item is 30k for a us dollar, if you see a rosto at 5 us dollar it would need to cost 150kgc so it generates the same value. its even worse for enriched esses etc. Its because of that that i think the prices that worked on the start in el do not work for the el that exists now anymore and there needs to be a few changes. Either a haidir pass (i think its the best selling object in radus shop) need to get more expensiv, or what would generate more sales is, the rosto price must slow down and get capped by npc. just take a gc/us dollar ratio and make the npc rosto price a bit more expensiv. That way people will still buy in shop and the inflation will have a capstone.

I do not mind to introduce a "mini rosto" but really what we need is a way to top the exallerating gc/us dollar change

 

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50 minutes ago, vinoveritas said:

I do not mind to introduce a "mini rosto" but really what we need is a way to top the exallerating gc/us dollar change

I completely agree.

 

I also fail to come with a workable way of controlling gc<->$ trades in any way (be it limiting the rate or the volume).

Workable here meaning "enforcable, without excessive effort required from admins, and without too much inconveniance for players not involved in this trade".

Most options would require time-consuming intervention from the few who have access to the server logs (so not the moderators).

 

Or radu could remove the largest gc sources from game (modifying instance and invasion drops). That at least is doable...

(that doesn't mean removing drop value, just reducing the direct gc dropped by monsters).

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there are a few ways, non is doable without radu's input some hard work for him if i understand the way el npc - shop market is set up. Some ideas might be looking like giving less value to him at the start but might make sense in the long run.

A way to handle stuff is to work through all npc prices, and change them so that they make more sound in a general base. (right now some things are ridiculous cheap and others ridiculous expensive. A change in the Shop prices to the lower rate of some products might be at first look counterproductiv, but my guess is if you pay for a rosto 1 us dollar, people will use them more buy them more and they could compete with haidir passes. which would mean in the end there is more rl money for radu then if he does not do the changes. (The price suggested is just for example to find the real price it would need some more data analyzing then i do have)

 

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10 hours ago, Kaddy said:

Dear EL'ers,

 

First of all, I want to tell you that I can afford rostos at almost any price, but this topic is not for myself, is I believe for the wellness of EL.

 

 

 

Farming brickers and casty with brownie tokens has worked out good for you, I am so glad you have the gcs. This is what you've done to me personally: I DO NOT have rl $ to buy bricks from the shop. Spending money here is not an option. Pay the heating bill or buy bricks?? Since I cannot replace the brick I lost yesterday, I am unable to go to anymore invasions. By that same token, there are many people in the same boat. I'm not going to make an invasion that some poor slob like myself loses the equipment because he cannot buy a brick to cover. So until the prices come back down, if I make an invasion at all it will be capped at low levels with easy monsters and no bosses.

 

good luck with all them bricks, I don't know what you'll use them for.

 

I must add, the price from me for brownie tokens is 2 rostos or 300kgcs each.

Edited by RipTide

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1 hour ago, RipTide said:

 

Farming brickers and casty with brownie tokens has worked out good for you, I am so glad you have the gcs. This is what you've done to me personally: I DO NOT have rl $ to buy bricks from the shop. Spending money here is not an option. Pay the heating bill or buy bricks?? Since I cannot replace the brick I lost yesterday, I am unable to go to anymore invasions. By that same token, there are many people in the same boat. I'm not going to make an invasion that some poor slob like myself loses the equipment because he cannot buy a brick to cover. So until the prices come back down, if I make an invasion at all it will be capped at low levels with easy monsters and no bosses.

 

good luck with all them bricks, I don't know what you'll use them for.

 

Hey RipTide,

 

Even though your comment has absolutely nothing to do with this thread and completely irrelevant, I will try to explain in a very simple way and with a good manner because I have grown so much respect to you in past year. 

 

First of all, if you think farming brickers and casties are so much gc, you are wrong. Those only make a few hundred k profit. And since I can fight a casty with my own will only per 4 days and no chance to kill a bricker unless spawned, you cannot call it ‘farming’ at all. And past few months there have been only 2 times that I killed brickers with tokens. 1 is radu bethel 12 brickers ( like how many months ago?) and second is irin island when all uncap people killed mobs and bosses in cove, I cleared complete island alone with over 600 ldp/ldb. Ask Wizzy. Even in that case, I didn’t solo Bricker and called teammates to kill together to share the drop. Also using a game feature and game dynamics in a different way should not be shocking anyone. Some people just have more experience about the game and can make the best out of a skill/item/perk etc better than other people. Why does it bother you? It is like saying “halberd is too op, use cutlass to kill dragons”, lol. Why should I?

 

Second, I know that you have never been to very top level, it is normal that you have no idea about the gc drops of high level mobs. Sometimes a decent fighter can make over 500-600kgcs in a night WITHOUT killing any bosses. Few weeks ago Garen got 15 regs in one night and I got 6 rigs aswell, those make 400-500k alone without any gc drops so killing casty/bricker is really really really a very low portion of income of a top level player. If you don’t believe me, ask Cher. And I don’t even want to mention farming ice instances at all which produce alot of gc aswell, sometimes more than invasion, sometimes less than gc/hour on giants. Oh well, you can’t win everytime. 

 

Lastly, I’m sad to hear you lost a rosto on an invasion. I’ll be glad to cover a rosto for a friend like you anytime. You know, sharing is caring. Keep up good work on invasions, I hope more newbies join your invasions and they help them stick around. 

 

- Kaddy

 

 

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I agree with kaddy, Vino, and revi.

 

1. If rostos were, say $1 apiece as Vino suggested (and I've been saying this for ages for this exact price point), I personally would buy a lot of them.  Sell some in-game.  At that price, I'd feel like I was getting bang for my buck and I'd be more active, more daring, and happy to go back for more.  Many others feel the same way.  Affordable rostos ==more active players and more shop-buying players.

 

2.  NPC is not a bad idea, but as is I doubt it would happen (taking rosto sales away from the shop).  Wonder if an NPC could be tied directly in to the shop to buy directly and get them right away?  As to tinkering with the rest, not a bad idea.  Wouldn't be my first choice but if radu does not want to adjust rosto prices, I can see value in these ideas.  I just don't see rostos ever being NPC sold on their own with no ties to the shop.

 

As to revi's idea for mini rostos for lower gear, that is also a great idea but doesn't help those of us past that point.  Not saying don't do it, it's great!, but we still need a plan for the big guy rosto issue.

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Re: Mini-rosto

 

Make either male orc or skeleton token do the effects of both tokens.

Make the other of the two be exchangeable at a rate of 10-15 tokens to 1 mini-rosto

 

Re: Rosto Price

 

I've never bought rostos from the shop, but $1/rosto is a far more tempting price than $5/rosto.

Radu could surprise us all and make rostos a NPCable item, but I don't see it happening either.

 

 

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8 hours ago, Affliction said:

If there were a mini rosto i'd rather it save what i'm wearing and not protect my inventory, than for it to be limited to 5 human nexus.

 

Of course you'd love that, as most of those 3M+ you're carrying will be in the equiped items. Which means that you'd get an even lower 'insurance rate'...

 

My idea was to have a cheaper rosto to protect cheaper equipment, to get a balance between the value protected and the price of the stone.

For it to really work that way, perhaps the nexus requirements for some weapons should be revised as well.

 

@Diealot:

Chances to get either type of rosto on NPC or in exchange for tokens seem very small to me, as the server needs to be paid. If ever they get on

NPCs, I'd expect there to be a limit on the number you can buy , and a serious cooldown between buys, week(s), rather than day(s).

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Reading revi’s idea, something came up to my mind. What about 3-level rostos?

 

Rosto for noobs: works if you are 100 cap. 1$

Rosto for semi-pros: works if you are 150 cap. 2$

Rostos for pros: works if you are uncap. 3$ 

 

I still believe that 5$ for a death is pricy. So this might help especially low levels to cover a death much easier, only would require killing some beavers or brownies or ogres and sell the tokens. Because I think even tho I believe uncap people burn more rostos, the reason for that is less and less low level people are fighting because the risk vs income is way too unbalanced. The level of rostos would help that issue. 

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Lowering the price has been proposed several times and was rejected.

 

Once again, my idea was NOT to differentiate by player level, but by gear value.

(like an insurance: the more value you want insured, the more you pay for the

insurance).

And the cost of weapons and armours is (at least loosely) related to the required

human nexus, which makes that an easy criterium.

 

In addition, I see absolutely no need for the lower bracket alts using pr0 gear to have access

to cheap rostos; if they can afford the gear, they should be able to afford the $4

rostos. As a side effect, we might perhaps see less over-equipped characters in

low level invasions, meaning those can be easier, making them more accessible

to new players.

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Or..............make low level....low reward.....newbies dont drop...limited armor....this would *train* them for when they reach a higher level instances/invasions/ etc

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The mini rosto would be nice for invasion but not so great for instances, but anyway I think most rostos are lost from invasion, correct me if I am wrong.

Lowering the rosto price to $3 seems like a good idea (with the current gc/$ market it would still mean something like 90kgc, still pricey), only problem I see is that haidir passes are still at $0.50.

Making rosto $1 would mean people will not have trouble finding them at a good price, but then pretty sure radu would make even less $ (or maybe not in the long run).

 

Good luck finding a solution

See you soon in game

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Radu could try what the change would be, by making it a sale, set down the prices a bit announce it and see the change in purchases.

For Radu a rosto has 0 costs, so all he might do is loose a bit of money if the sales stay as they are, with a decline in sale however it is always a good idea to go over priceing to change dynamics.

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What if rosto's were not sellable by bots? What if you could buy rosto's online, but you could only sell them to an NPC for a set price? Then if you wanted a Rosto you had to either buy it from the shop, buy it from someone person to person, or buy it from the NPC. Then Radu would have total control over the $/GC ratio and the price of rostos?

#edit
Honestly you could use the npc for all shop items.

Edited by Affliction

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As as long as rostos or other common shop items (cooldown reducers, haidir passes, ...) can be traded between players,

radu would have just as much control over the $/gc ratio as he has now, i.e. none.

It would just be less convenient for both sellers and buyers.

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You guys don't flipping get it. NPC sales of bricks are NEVER going to happen. Lesser types of bricks are NEVER going to happen. None of you will know how many times we suggested in mod for radu put on a shop sale and it didn't happen. He isn't interested in lowering brick prices. He isn't interested in doing updates to the game anymore.

 

We got kaddy buying up all the cheap bricks so he can invent a crisis that we need a cheaper alternative or something. All he did was hurt the little guys struggling to enjoy the game. And I don't need your magnanimous "let me replace your brick" offer. I can buy my own bricks IF they are there on the market to buy.

 

From here I'll keep quiet.

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1 hour ago, RipTide said:

You guys don't flipping get it. NPC sales of bricks are NEVER going to happen.

To be fair. my NPC idea was not radu stocking an npc, but rather an npc that was stocked by players who buy from the shop. 

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my view on rostos (not that anyone will care :P)

the shop prices are fine, i have been fortunate enough to buy from shop in the past,  due to personal events over the last year i cant afford to,

 

as for the ingame price players that are able to do the invasions can afford to buy them at the current prices, or should be able to use thier skills to afford them, yes they are too high in my opinion (currently 110k upwards, i think they should be around the 90k mark)

 

i'm down to my last two bricks, i know that if i need to, i can go do quests, make stuff to sell ingame (only a small percent of players have bots so i dont count that here) that means a fair bit of harvesting and a fair bit of mixing or indeed farming trolls or other rosto droppers.

but its very much so possible to 'Do Work' in game to go get your bricks

 

alot of you will say but i dont want to spend three or four days 'working' to go have fun' well why not, its an alround game, maybe there have been too many back to back invasions over the last few months, too much catering for instant gratification

 

That being said there is the argument that the increase in invasions is to keep more new/players intreased/happy so they stay around?

 

either way shop prices are fine, radu needs some income from/for the game and i dont mind spending money inshop when i can to help on that front.

 

if your charater/s cant make money skill wise then skill up learn to do so, there are much more quicker ways to make gc in farming low end mobs these days from when i started, some tokens sell for more than a few hours worth of furs.

 

 

as for the subject of keeping rosto prices down? its just game economics, the demand has gone up because the there are more invasions of late and more rosto needed good for shop bad for instant gratification.

 

cant afford a rosto?, go level up skills or go farm stuff sell to players/bots .

 

or the flip side of all that, if players are forced to do invasions without bricks maybe more players can turn to savaging invasions  as a skill :P

 

 

 

 

Edited by caladina

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I not play the el for rosto price is very big, make cheap many will play again. Big price of brick mean many not fight, at all! Is shame as fighting monster and other people best part of el.

but i no afford 10 dollars or more for one good invasion is more money needed than any other games i play.

eternal love for el but i too poor to play this game

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