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Susje

Susje char locked for posting ads in @@3.

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Today I was playing EL with my char Susje as always, when revi PMed me telling that he considers me posting in @@3 after stx was harassing. I told him that some time ago faxie, stouxy and another EL players posted for months in @@3 after my posts there and never heard from a mod that was harassment to me, so I consider posting in @@3 I don't break any rule or the "spirit of rules". On the other hand, in my posts in @@3 there is no stouxy or his alts charnames so thinking I'm harassing him just because he posted some ad in the channel before me  seems arbitrary: everyone could be accused of harassment by some bot owner or competitor merchant just for posting in @@3.

 

After posting again my ad in @@3 (without breaking the rules about 5 minutes between ads and all that) appeared that I broke rule about being a troublemaker and was booted by revi. I can't log in again in EL and and EL webpage says my char is locked. Is now posting ads in @@3 a bannable offense? I know revi doesn't feel simpathy for me, but I think posting my ads in @@3 shouldn't be an excuse for booting me from EL and ruining my playtime.

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Correct, you were locked by me.

 

Just 22 minutes earlier I had asked you if you had been warned about your way of posting (almost exclusively) after STX' posts being considered spammy and harassment.

You denied that you had received any such warning, and were told that:

1- your way of posting after STX was considered harassment and

2- if I learned that you had in effect been warned about that before, the next occasion would not just be a mute.

 

Then Wizzy told me he had talked to you about your ways of posting in @3, so you had been warned

 

At the first moment STX posted in @3, you replied in your normal way...

That got you a lock under rule 1 (don't be a troublemaker) for intentionally ignoring a warning,

and rule 6 (harassment, as in "(...)clear and implied language or actions that are systematically and/or continually unwanted and annoying.")

 

 

Edited by revi

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So now posting ads in @@3 after another player's ad is harassing him? Why then when stouxy posted ads after my posts in @@3 he was not booted? Is different is he does the same as me, or that "unwritten rule" does not apply to him? I want to understand  well that rule I supposedly broke so I can #abuse him and mods boot him if he posts in @@3 after my post.

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You got the rules that you broke when you were hammered (1 and 6).

Rule one was for lieing about having been warned before, and as you were told in PM

just before you posted again, posting almost exclusively after STX was considered harassment.

 

To be clear, the problem is not that "you post ads in @@3", but that you do it systematically and

exclusively just after one particular player. And this has been explained to you already in PM before today and by another mod

 

I was willing to go for a 24h lock. As you seem unwilling to learn, I'll now suggest the standard 1 month,

starting from the moment you stop complaining

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Let's not be deliberately obtuse.  "...posting ads in @@3 after another player's ad" is not the issue and you know it.  It is YOU posting ads IMMEDIATELY after STX's ads specifically, with the intent to annoy, harass, and insult him. 

 

And you have most definitely, multiple times, been told to stop this.

 

And let's not forget your prior history of lying to radu and how you manage your alts. 

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Let's not be deliberately obtuse.

 

- I don't post IMMEDIATELY after stx's ads. If I write a post, it could be many seconds or even minutes after stx's ad or another player's ad. Never read in the rules or heard in @@6 that now the time (seconds or minutes) you posted in channel 3 after another player's ad is monitored by mods and can be cause of mute/ban/locking.

 

- I don't know what feels stx when I post in @@3, or what feels some mod. My intention is just advertise the items I'm selling, like any merchant who posts in that channel . I don't see any insult to stx or his alts in my posts and anyway that is not my intention.

 

- I think mods have enough unpaid work being mods in EL for creating more unnecessary work censoring ads in channel 3 or locking players for posting ads in that channel. And it they do it, should be the same for every player so.... If a mod locks me for posting my ad after some player's  ad, when I post in channel 3 and that player posts his ad after mine should be locked too.

 

 

 

Edited by Susje

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You have been warned about this since at least April 2016, according to server logs.

 

Again, it's not "some player's ad".  It is YOU and STX and (all your and stx's alts) that is the issue.  Both of you.  The rule involved is Rule 6, "No Harassment".  Please click on it and read it in its entirety.

 

And so you really think we are that stupid to not know what you are up to ("I don't see any insult to stx or his alts in my posts")?  Like "(not robbed)"...

Here, let me give you a sample of what we've seen, and that you've been warned about:

 

Sun Apr 24 21:30:43 2016 #Abuse report from XXXXX: #or susje 6 and #booted for  [21:13:06] [Susje @ 3]: Don't buy from him: he has the bird flu!! :-D Selling CF, phoenix glyphs, toadies, FEs

 

Sun Apr 24 21:50:19 2016 #Abuse report from XXXXX: re susje: @3 post followed [20:25:29] [Lazyness @ 3]: Selling:Skeleton&Skull keys/Pear/Daily cd reducers/ ; both have been warned multiple times,

 

And note the date.  This has been going on for years.  One specific player, not "a player".  You and STX. 

 

 

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Here is my channel 3 ad because I was locked:

 

"@@3 Selling (not robbed) rostos, haidir passes, armors, invasion tokens, CF, EMPs. Trading my s2es for your hydro ores. Buy nexus removals and binding stones."

 

Where is the insult to stx? I don't see his charname there. Where is the harassment? Is harassment selling items like stx or any EL player and advertising it in channel 3? If I post my ad by chance after lavp's ad (by example) will I be locked again for harassing him?

 

If this is a thing between stx and me, I don't understand why always I'm the only one muted/banned/locked and he never is muted/banned/locked. Is the order of posting the reason? If I post before him and he posts after me will he be locked?

 

 

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You or revi don't have to inform me when you warn/mute/ban/lock someone. Both can do whatever you want and even lock me without a valid reason, like when radu locked my char for 2 days and he said it was not a lock but a connection problem in my router (although EL webpage said Susje char was locked). I'm just trying to understand your reasons for locking my char, because I honestly don't see any insult or harassment in the ads I just posted in channel 3.

 

If posting an ad after another player is an insult or harassment, any ad would be the same in my opinion because always there is a previous ad.

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If you can't see the difference between "posting an ad after another player" and "always posting an ad that belittles stx after stx posts" even after multiple attempts to explain the difference, then there is no more point to the conversation.  I'm not convinced you are truly this obtuse, but actually are trying to play dumb to get away with it yet again.  Please note this does not mean we "lock you without a valid reason".  Also please note Rule 1, and that this is hardly your first go around with trouble.

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I'm not playing dumb or being obtuse. I'm just using "reductio ad absurdum" because your reasons for locking my char seem absurd to me. Prolly I'm loosing my time because moderation is never a topic for public discussion, even if mods' resolutions are crearly unfair.

 

- My posts in channel 3 are not ALWAYS after stx posts. Sometimes he posts in channel 3 and I don't post after him, sometimes I post in channel 3 when stx is not logged on. And sometimes he posts ads in channel 3 after my ads and he never was locked for it. But it seems the focus is on me so I'm ALWAYS the bad boy.

 

- Rule 1 in EL says "don't be a troublemaker". Would be the same if it says "don't breath" because every mod could ban a player using that rule with or without a reason like now.

 

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From my chat logs from yesterday (~27 h ago):

Quote

[13:41:20] [Susje @ 3]: Selling (not robbed) rostos, haidir passes, armors, invasion tokens, CF, EMPs. Trading my s2es for your hydro ores. Buy nexus removals and binding stones.
(...)
[13:43:32] [revi @ 6]: So how do you guarantee that your bots don't buy "robbed" items?
(...)
[13:44:17] [Susje @ 6]: banning stouxy and his alts :-D

 

So you say that only stouxy and his alts deal in "robbed items" (as banning him and his alts is enough to guarantee your bots don't buy "robbed items").

But you still want to maintain that the "(not robbed)" in your ads is not aimed at STX...

 

Again, you have been warned about this. Now the harassment got you locked after a final warning.

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14 minutes ago, revi said:

From my chat logs from yesterday (~27 h ago):

 

So you say that only stouxy and his alts deal in "robbed items" (as banning him and his alts is enough to guarantee your bots don't buy "robbed items").

But you still want to maintain that the "(not robbed)" in your ads is not aimed at STX...

 

Again, you have been warned about this. Now the harassment got you locked after a final warning.

 

 

If you want to justify your biased decision of locking my char Susje because my ads in channel 3 ok, keep trying it. I know it was an unfair decision (and prolly you know it too). You can make unfair decisions as mod but you can't convince me that are fair ones.

 

I never said stx and his alts are the ONLY ONES who deal in robbed chars and items but they crearly do it, is not a secret  because stx himself told it publicly in channel 6. But I don't know every player who does the same (I'm not a mod with special powers for knowing each alt and what IP they use everyday). Prolly there are more players doing it too.

 

If I say my items are not robbed is because is true : I actively take measures for not buying robbed/scammed chars or items like banning in my bots every robbed chars/items dealer I know (like stouxy and every one of his alts I know). If stx or you (revi) feel angry because in my ads I tell my items are not robbed, sorry for both but that is not against the rules and is not a valid reason for locking my char Susje.

 

And by the way, If you keep believing that posting my ads in channel 3 after your friend stx is  a valid reason for locking my char one month, talk with radu and ask him a permanent ban against me. If you want harm me unfairly, do it well.

 

 

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Nah, I'll let you explain your side to radu. All I have to do in this case is nothing, and that's what I'll do.

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2 minutes ago, revi said:

Nah, I'll let you explain your side to radu. All I have to do in this case is nothing, and that's what I'll do.

 

 

Oh, so nice from you. You locked my char unfairly but you will permit I explain my side to radu. Another one would ban me too from EL forum so I can't complain here. Thank you very much! :D

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When some player buys items in EL shop radu comes fast to deliver, but when somebody is locked he is slower. The lock was this monday and today is wednesday. Is he too busy for posting here?

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On 30/12/2018 at 1:14 AM, Entropy said:

Aislinn handles the moderation mostly, not Radu.

 

 That is new: in the recent past, I talked with you when I was locked 2 times unfairly and you (not Aislinn) unlocked me. I think the game owner is the most appropiate for dealing with locks because mods don't have a share of EL shop sales (as far I know) so if a player quits EL and spends his/her money in another game the only one adversely affected is Radu. Complaining to Aislinn I think is totally useless: she always says the mod was right (even if he/she was wrong)  or says "talk with Radu about it".

 

Some mods are nice and friendly people, but some can't be impartial and often their decisions are influenced by their dislikes to some players.

 

I won't complain more to you although I think another players "harassed" me (if I use the reasons revi used for locking my char) using channel 3 like by example:

 

[20:29:48] [STX @ 3]: Selling:Tit,iron,silver ores. All minerals. All tokens. Steel bars. Enh sunds. ACP's. All capes. EME's,EFE's. Aes. Pears,grapes,oranges, cdr's. PM :) fSu

 

Everyone in EL knows what is the word that starts with "f" and "Su" I think is pretty evident (even for some mods) what means.

 

I disagree with some mods and Radu in this case is supporting them. Complaining is useless because Radu and Aislinn are deaf to players' complains, what I can do? I think I have 2 ways to express my disagree: stop playing EL (I don't know if I will do that, I've been playing in these days another games more fun and better than EL) or stop spending my money in EL. I will do the last one because it's more effective knowing Radu: you won't get a single $ more from me, so my bots will be unlogged and won't buy more items from EL shop. Sorry for my customers, if I keep playing EL someday they can PM me if want buy/sell items. If I don't play EL anymore, goodbye.

 

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<quote>I told him that some time ago faxie</quote>

 

If you want to include me in the discussion, then speak the truth. You were the one posting AFTER my posts.

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What other player (are supposed to) have done is actually completely irrelevant in relation to Susje's locks.

He doesn't know, and it is none of his business, if/how those cases have been treated and what warnings/punishments

have or have not been inflicted on guilty parties.

 

Actually, most of my moderation isn't even visible to others (we have things like PM, you know).

Edited by revi

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On 17/12/2018 at 12:56 PM, revi said:

I was willing to go for a 24h lock. As you seem unwilling to learn, I'll now suggest the standard 1 month,

starting from the moment you stop complaining

 

"unwilling to learn" in EL mod's cryptic language means complaining about unfair decissions instead of writing "sorry, I was a bad boy so I humbly ask the marvelous mods for a unlock, please, please, please.... :(". I've been playing EL for many years so I know being humble and meek in EL is the best strategy for being unlocked (many nasty scammers/cheaters were unlocked in the past using that strategy) but I honestly can't ask for pardon if I think I'm right and the mod is wrong.

 

Anyway, it's been over a month since I was locked, so will I be unlocked at last?

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That was, as you quoted, 1 month from the moment you stop complaining...

On 12/20/2018 at 11:57 AM, Susje said:

When some player buys items in EL shop radu comes fast to deliver, but when somebody is locked he is slower. The lock was this monday and today is wednesday. (...)

On 1/2/2019 at 1:34 PM, Susje said:

 That is new: in the recent past, I talked with you when I was locked 2 times unfairly and you (not Aislinn) unlocked me. I think the game owner is the most appropiate for dealing with locks because mods don't have a share of EL shop sales (as far I know) so if a player quits EL and spends his/her money in another game the only one adversely affected is Radu. Complaining to Aislinn I think is totally useless: she always says the mod was right (even if he/she was wrong)  or says "talk with Radu about it". (...)

 

39 minutes ago, Susje said:

"unwilling to learn" in EL mod's cryptic language means complaining about unfair decissions instead of writing "sorry, I was a bad boy so I humbly ask the marvelous mods for a unlock, please, please, please.... :(".

See you in a month, as far as I'm concerned.

 

But frankly, I only suggested a 1 month lock, from the moment radu and Aislinn got involved, it's their decision...

And in this case, for you, that's a good thing...

Edited by revi

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31 minutes ago, revi said:

That was, as you quoted, 1 month from the moment you stop complaining...

 

See you in a month, as far as I'm concerned.

 

But frankly, I only suggested a 1 month lock, from the moment radu and Aislinn got involved, it's their decision...

 

 

A perfect example of revi's "smart reasoning" and sense of justice: a month after my lock I asked if the ban was ended, and that for him/her is complaining too so I deserve another month locked. The next time, every word I write here in this post prolly will be another month of lock for me.

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