Ranging

[Diealot]

Is it a feature or a bug that ranging exp decreases as accuracy (level & perception) increases?

 

As far as I can tell the mechanics of range exp are something like:

 

xp given = (light factor)*(movement factor) + (Rationality bonus)

 

Where

• Light factor is a combination of light of the location, light modifier of the target, perception of the shooter, level of the shooter, distance between shooter and target, missile accuracy, and any other accuracy bonuses the shooter might have (mainly perks); and is a number greater or equal to 1.
• Movement factor is = 1 if target is stationary and somewhere between 1.5 and 2 if the target is moving
• and Rationality bonus is your rationality/4.

 

Currently, since the 'light factor' is essentially also your accuracy, at higher perception levels (or very high range levels) you receive less xp for shooting a target from the same distance but has lower perception (or significantly lower level).

Edited August 30, 2018 by Diealot

[Diealot]

Radu's response below, tl/dr is  'Feature' :

 

[PM to radu: Oh, hey.]
[PM to radu: Was wondering if I could get an answer to the question I posted on the forum: ]
[PM to radu: Is it a feature or a bug that ranging exp decreases as accuracy (level & perception) increases?  ]
[PM from radu: of course it's not a bug, wth question is that?]
[PM to radu: Well... eventually, as you max perception, you end up hitting the min exp on most shots, even if your level is still quite low.]
[PM from radu: so shoot from further away]
[PM from radu: or at night]
[PM to radu: During daylight, sometimes even max distance gives min exp.]
[PM from radu: you might not realize but it's the same with a/d...]
[PM to radu: Oh, I do realize that, but with a/d you can increase the difficulty of the target, with range you can only move further away...]
[PM to radu: if you can't move further away to get more exp... then... I guess you're shit out of luck?]
[PM from radu: shoot at night]
[PM from radu: also, you get exp for successful hits only, no?]
[PM to radu: So, I can a/d any time, but to get reasonable exp for range I can only shoot at night?]
[PM to radu: Yes, successful hits only.]
[PM from radu: so you get more sucessful hits]
[PM from radu: and fewer wasted arrows]
[PM to radu: And when I get 100% accuracy from max distance, and min exp... I'm sol? No more range leveling?]
[PM from radu: same for everyone else]
[PM to radu: Not melee fighters.]
[PM to radu: Or mages, who get the same exp all the time.]
[PM to radu: (as do summoners)]
[PM from radu: for everyone training ranging I mean...]
[PM from radu: you can also reduce your perception if you care that much]
[PM to radu: would a fighter reduce their coordination?]
[PM to radu: or physique, or whatever attribute they focus on?]
[PM from radu: ask them?]
[PM from radu: but yes]
[PM from radu: some do]
[PM to radu: Any chance you could put me in touch with one who does? I'd like to know their reasoning.]
[PM to radu: The ones who do it to reduce CL so they can farm drops isn't the same... I'm trying to get xp, not drops.]
[PM from radu: you can ask on channel 6 you know]
[PM to radu: Sounded like you know some people who do that?]
[PM from radu: you can ask on channel 6 you know]
Welcome to channel 6.
[PM from radu: and yeah, no one goes for full phy when trying to get as much a/d exp as possible]
[Diealot @ 6]: HEy, would any fighter reduce one of their main attributes significantly solely in order to get more xp, at the expense of how well they fight?
[Biker_Boy @ 6]: possibly diealot, but Ive never heard of it before
[Kace @ 6]: i woukd not no
[Diealot @ 6]: Not to get more drops, only to get more exp.
[Kace @ 6]: no thats kinda dumb
[Biker_Boy @ 6]: most are focused solely on drops
[Kace @ 6]: wgats the point in being a fighter at that point
[Kace @ 6]: *whats

[PM to radu: Did you see those responses?]
[PM to radu: what's the point in being a ranger if I have to reduce my perception to get xp?]
[Biker_Boy @ 6]: kace they are walking about powerleveling
[kalil @ 6]: well, what if you were gonna do a rea/cood build?
[Biker_Boy @ 6]: not just looking for drops
[Biker_Boy @ 6]: talking*
[Kace @ 6]: still why be a fighter if youre hurting youre fighting ability
[garbage @ 6]: build for future
[Biker_Boy @ 6]: longer fight gives more xp kace
[kalil @ 6]: yeah...im not a fan of that build...but, i know people do it
[Biker_Boy @ 6]: fast kill is low xp
[Kace @ 6]: if they are going to be a fighter be a fighter
[kalil @ 6]: agreed
[TaP @ 6]: kace open your mind up a bit
[Biker_Boy @ 6]: no reason they cant focus on xp instead of drops kace...
[kalil @ 6]: we here to kill shit and blow shit up
[Biker_Boy @ 6]: maybe they have another char to supply their he/sr

[TaP @ 6]: if you can get better xp and lvl faster with less coords or whatever, why not?>
[Kace @ 6]: its not drops it youre fighting ability
[PM from radu: you asked the wrong question]
[PM to radu: Okay, you can ask the question then?]
[radu @ 6]: what he means is: do all fighters go for 52 physique right away?
[Kace @ 6]: why be a fighter if youre not fighting to the best you can
[Diealot @ 6]: No, that's not what I mean...
[radu @ 6]: and if they do, do they complain that omfg, I get less exp?
[Biker_Boy @ 6]: radu is much closer to the point here
[funfool @ 6]: why not just increase reasoning, you get more xp for everything you do, your spells are stronger, life just smells better with more reasoning, skunk hunts +++
[TaP @ 6]: you are
[Biker_Boy @ 6]: kace doesnt seem to get it
[TaP @ 6]: youre adjusting attributes to get more rounds out of a fight, to get more xp
[radu @ 6]: he complains that he maximixed his perception and gets less ranging exp
[Kace @ 6]: i get it im telling you i dont think its smart
[Diealot @ 6]: No, I complain that at maximum perception, I only get minimum ranging xp.
[Biker_Boy @ 6]: oh
[radu @ 6]: yes
[TaP @ 6]: your saying killing things AS FAST AS POSSIBLE make a better fighter?
[Biker_Boy @ 6]: oh I see
[Kace @ 6]: then why  didnt you say rsnge
[Biker_Boy @ 6]: unrelated to fighting
[radu @ 6]: I told him that fighters also don't do that
[TaP @ 6]: sorry bud, thats incorrect. a good fighter lvls his attributes as he moves up on mobs to keep it balanced
[radu @ 6]: maximize all their stuff if they want exp
[Kace @ 6]: thats 2 different things that i have complete different opinion on
[TaP @ 6]: thats their point, not how fast to kill stuff
[kalil @ 6]: i prefer to kill things pretty quick, so they dont beat the crap out of my gera
[Kace @ 6]: eh i dont find that as fighting thats training
[radu @ 6]: but the point is, you usually get more a/d exp with lower phy than max phy
[Kace @ 6]: *trainer
[Diealot @ 6]: TaP, once a ranger maxes his attributes, he can't move up on mobs... eventually he gets only minimum exp
[TaP @ 6]: you didnt say range til like 20 seconds ago lol
[TaP @ 6]: you said fighter mate, thats a ranger
[Biker_Boy @ 6]: I think we figured that out now
[TaP @ 6]: i was still speaking on it
[Biker_Boy @ 6]: ok
[Biker_Boy @ 6]: sorry , lost in spam
[Diealot @ 6]: Look... a fighter can increase his attributes, become a better fighter, and still get reasonable xp fighting by moving to harder creatures.
[TaP @ 6]: yeah i had to back scroll to re read alot of text lol
[radu @ 6]: in EL, ranging is a helper skill
[radu @ 6]: like magic and summoning
[TaP @ 6]: truth
[Diealot @ 6]: As a ranger increases his level and attributes, he gets less xp... unless he's further away from target, but eventually you cannot move back any further
[radu @ 6]: you can't just train ranging and expect to be a fighter with it
[Diealot @ 6]: And thus get minimum xp only.
[radu @ 6]: did you maximize your rationality?
[Diealot @ 6]: So I shouldn't train a skill to be a better helper to other players?
[Diealot @ 6]: Or gear my character towards that skill?
[radu @ 6]: you should, but don't expect to become 179 ranging
[TaP @ 6]: you should, just dont expect it not to be a bit of a money sink skill gettin those lvls
[TaP @ 6]: lol ^
[Biker_Boy @ 6]: is it impossible to reach max ranging?
[TaP @ 6]: nothing impossible
[Biker_Boy @ 6]: or just nigh-impossible?
[radu @ 6]: nothing is impossible
[radu @ 6]: but people shouldn't expect it
[Biker_Boy @ 6]: right nigh-impossible gotcha
[Diealot @ 6]: I don't expect to be 100 range really... but I would think I could still get reasonable xp off of shooting things whenver I like without having to change atts
[TaP @ 6]: dont need max range to help good
[TaP @ 6]: max AP tho.. you do need some work in that
[Kace @ 6]: nothing impossible except lvl 180 lol
[kalil @ 6]: i think finding people in this game who dont get their panties in a wad...thats impossible
[radu @ 6]: also, the reason why people train ranging exp is to hit better, yes?
[Biker_Boy @ 6]: thats why I do
[radu @ 6]: once you can hit anything quite well, no reason to train it even more
[TaP @ 6]: dude everyone is chill wym?
[Diealot @ 6]: Who's mad? lol
[TaP @ 6]: idk kalil said it
[Biker_Boy @ 6]: *shrugs*
[radu @ 6]: not all skills are equal
[radu @ 6]: a/d 179 is useful
[radu @ 6]: harvest 179 not so much
[radu @ 6]: or alchemy 179
[Biker_Boy @ 6]: lol I'm trying to get by with minimum a/d on this cchar
[kalil @ 6]: apparently radu never harvested at 90mph
[Diealot @ 6]: If that's your answer, fine... I think the range skill would be better off if it weren't that way, but it's your game.
[Diealot @ 6]: I think more people would level past the 60-70ish now, and sink more money into it... but *shrug*
[Biker_Boy @ 6]: I dunno ranging a side skill to alchemists like me
[Diealot @ 6]: I'm not expecting 100 xp/shot, that's silly.
[TaP @ 6]: i think its fine, you need max AP not max range lvl
[Kace @ 6]: i dont even have a char with 30 range lol
[Biker_Boy @ 6]: yes max ap really helps later
[TaP @ 6]: yeah
[Biker_Boy @ 6]: my range is only 37 but with max ap I can do dragons with a tank
[Biker_Boy @ 6]: np
[Biker_Boy @ 6]: do damage
[Diealot @ 6]: Getting the minimum xp on most shots just because you have high stats in skill you want to train seems obtuse to me...

[Kaddy]

Some fighters keep their phy/coord low in order to get maximum exp out of the mobs they kill, which is something I find really stupid. Those people cannot use the maximum capacity of their chars because of low p/c. That's where you have to make a choice between gc drops, invasions or better exp.

 

Which is why I suggested exp per kill, but some people didn't like it even tho like %99 of the MMO's offer the same, lol...

 

As for ranging, never became a true ranger but trained alot. Yes, maximum perception decreases the exp incoming, but you do get more exp per shot since less fails so you have to make trials and see what brings you the most experience. Long distance and high exp or short distance and low exp in total.

[Diealot]

@Kaddy

For training purposes (i.e. stationary 'invincible' target), the ideal location to stand usually is the furthest spot that still gives 100% accuracy. If a ranger has high perception with relatively high level (or moderate perception and very high level), there is a possibility that this condition falls outside of the max view range. In other words, the ideal spot becomes as far away as possible, but should be farther away.

 

Also, aside from training, once your perception & level are high enough, daytime shooting will almost always give the minimum amount of exp (1+rationality/4) even if you are shooting targets at maximum distance.

 

 

[dragon_killer]

Hi where do you train ranging? I think if you go in arena you can get a fairly good éxo, don't use wh bow or marksman bow when training, well if you have those perks guess it can be annoying, what's your exp/arrow anyway. 

And yeah I didn't max p/c at some point to maximise exp/hour on feros(not like those requires a lot of ému). 

Personally I use an alt to train ranging when I do train

Edited September 6, 2018 by dragon_killer

[Diealot]

DK, I use an alt to train ranging that's set up to be a 'good' ranger (meaning high perception).

Because of that he cannot train outside in daylight (can't stand far enough away). There are still places he can train any time (Irsis arena), but I think it's unfortunate that eventually you can increase your ranging ability to the point of only getting minimum exp while standing a huge distance from your target.

 

I doubt radu would consider it, but I think having a second, distance only based exp formula that gives marginally better exp when standing great distances away would be of benefit to the skill. It would encourage rangers to use better gear, and which leads to greater risk of loss, and which leads to greater need for rosto, which means more bricks disappear, which gives radu more money.  Oh, and... more people wanting to level the range skill, so more money leaves the game, so he can sell more gc so people can buy more arrows...

 

I'm not complaining that I'm not getting 100 xp per shot (I don't expect 50 either, hell 20 would be fantastic)... I'm complaining that I'm getting 8 xp per shot from max sight distance for half the day whenever I feel like using gear that doesn't suck.

[Rabbitman]

You could also try wearing ninja cloak and cape of passive camo on alt. I believe those affect the difficulty to hit which should help you get more exp.

 

On the other part about training a/d, the benefits of keeping physique low for training decrease once you get past forest chims as most monsters have high enough toughness and armour that you will need to train with a weapon to do damage to get attack exp anyway.

 

RM

Edited September 6, 2018 by Rabbitman

[Diealot]

PC/Ninja sadly do not counteract daylight (at least for a character that has good perception).