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konec

Reaction to Radu's answer in neno hunting rules and bans

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I am sorry for posting in another topic, but the one Radu answered in was locked (ofc. I know why it has been locked and hope I dont break rules by this one..)

I d like to clarify and ask few more things: You never told me how many alts can one have logged in at once and there is no rule about it, only thing you told me about number of alts is that Stivy has 7. By the time you started locking our chars, you said there were 13 alts, but we were 2 players (me and my brother Whitelightlord), so basically we did not even exceed the number of 7 alts per person, if what stivy has is max, which is ofc. nowhere to find in rules... and BTW: I doubt stivy always has all his alts not AFK..

who do we hurt or do anything bad by hunting neno in 2 people? - server could not hold 20 more players? anyone else wanted to hunt neno and we "blocked" them? we bring too much gc to EL economy?

couldnt find any other thing  that could be wrong, but please tell me if there is smth else, because i really dont understand what was done wrong.

I doubt server couldnt hold more players, but say if I am wrong

how many people started to follow neno with full health if he was not in sewers/pl or sedicolis and there are at least 15+ more known maps(though the spawns are not known, so sitting on a neno spawn is really a doubtful thing, cause there is nowhere written that he spawns right there...)

if we were "super lucky" we find neno and get it killed in 45 mins (with little following time and poisoned caltrops it is not doable sooner) and the most we can get is joules stone for like 120K and approx 13K share from gc drop. but we have also experienced a 9 hour session with 13 teleports (all teleports that we have seen, there were probably more) and we can get bad day removal for like 30K, so in approx we can get like 75Kgc share in 5 hours of concentrated work...anything else we would do (besides afk sitting) would bring more gc to EL economy..

so please tell me what is so wrong on 2 people hunting neno

and one last thing...instances has never meant to be 2 men or even single man things, or am I wrong? and how many are ran each day in 2 men? and I bet they bring much more gc to EL economy than hunting neno...

OFC. you can remove anything - it is YOUR game, but I think that even you can understand why people feel offended if there are no written rules broken and the solution would be so easy - to just write down few rules that applies same to everyone, or as Learner suggested..make a * denote that certain player/s deoesnt have to obbey that rules.. Imagine a police man stopped you and said.."here you should have stopped, it is obvious" and there was no sign to inform you that you should stop your car.. would you say..ye..my fault, I gotta live with that and pay the fine? I doubt that.. It is not about that we dont follow the rules, it is that there are no rules written..and it is pretty hard to obey anything, that we dont know about..

never meant to do anything wrong..sorry if I did, it was not intended and I always accepted any consequences if they were righteous.

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I already said what I had to say. Anyway, all this is irrelevant now, since Nenorocit will be removed next update.

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Fine..remove neno, its a sure thing, you can do whatever you want. I just want to know a number of how many alts I can have logged in at once, even if afk, since there will be no neno, it doesnt matter and they can sit anywhere..? You said i cant have alts, i dont actually play, so how many can be played? Thanks for your answer.

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I know my opinion wasn't asked for, but this is an unlocked thread in General Chat, so I'm free to give it.   ;)

In the spirit of the game, I view  being allowed to use alts as meaning you are free to develop multiple characters or builds (which you could always do) and are now also able to share equipment and money between your characters to help with that development.  I do NOT view it (again, in the spirit of the game) as freedom to have an army of alts who's only purpose is to benefit a main char.

My main char is a generalist (does a little of everything, and a lot of a few things).  After a couple years I created an independent alt to play with a fighting-only build because I wanted to do something totally different.  He had to be independently built without any help from my main.  If I was doing that today where alt trading is allowed, simply giving some gc to the alt for books and gear would be a huge help.

Given that, I don't see the use of alts as spies on certain dangerous routes, or to watch for specific characters or critters as falling within the spirit of the game or what would be considered appropriate use of alts.  A spy/observer character isn't  really a defined skill in EL.

 

As an aside, I sometimes wonder if the change really reduced the load on mods at all.  It changed enforcement from a very objective measure (trading among characters owned by one person) to a subjective measure (is that an appropriate or fair use of alts).  The very questions being asked here show how subjective alt usage has become.  On the other hand, one could argue that questions along the lines of "just how much can I get away with" suggest a usage that is not in the spirit of the game.  Yes more subjective measures.

 

Anyway, back to the PK server where none of this drama exists.

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The load on mods is much less, yes, because people were pretty creative with dodging rule 5. I don't have a problem with multiple alts to benefit a main, but things like placing an alt at every spawn is not what I had in mind when I removed rule 5.

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I am wondering how long rediska  is now sitting on exact the same spot. the char is almost always online. i did not see him move in years. all he does is sit around in a an ice map clothed in tunic of ninja, and with cape of passive camuflage probably listening on sounds of people walking by just so the player can act on the information if he wants to, as the exits of the place is pk.

I think thats exactly your point of game play violation you are pointiing out to konec. So as i said before make a rule that please defines when is that having a char sitting around against the gameplay and when not. Without a rule basicly what you do is to decide on personal preferences and thats not good for the game at all.

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so the little fun of hunt a neno you remove after its been screwed by 1 person on mel wall by camping 24/7,  almost impossible to find it back now when tele.... let 1 person in game place overall for spy thats aloud, not see them do any but hide in dark corners. why remove the hydro not as well its not worth it. i bet he got a alt close to joker up there to, and watch it now and than.

O excuse i forgot its so easy to get 

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Well, there was a discussion about restrictions for alts, which petered out once the main item got removed after a fairly standard(*) discussion in @6. The community here has always at least one player (different players for different proposals) loudly and repeatedly objecting to any change until the change is abandoned. So why bother changing anything, when the rest stays silent. And the reasons they stay silent can be simply that they are not in @6 or not on-line (so not aware of the proposal until after the fact, if then). (right now, there are 117 characters online, and 64 in @6).

 

(*) "Fairly standard" as in "rapidly going on side tracks, trolls appearing and language getting stronger"

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Point to you i am not in channel 6 as i cannot stand to be in channel 6 for extendet times. But point is. one part of the suggested rules (that never where made official) got stroke through and thats the one with neno joke invan. So why was one part of people punished while other could do it. its double standards like that that annoys people. i do not care if there is a rule that says its allowed or if it says it is not allowed. But the double Standards annoy.  Now Neno is removed. the game is for normal player a little bit less. I cannot see people in invasions going to hunt him. Neno is time consuming even if he does not tele.

So do Proposals in the suggestion posts. let people vote. not make them in channel 6 where just a part of the people will get knowledge about it at all.  Main thing is make not double standards.

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Oh, I fully agree that those unwritten rules are a pain (and not only for players...).

Now, as far as I'm concerned, it's not so much a matter of double standards, but it's the kind of thing that's rather hard to check:
First you have to notice/find out that a player is making a lot of alts.
Then you have to be able to show that those alts are used for unwanted activities.

In addition, I always try to give a warning if I think the player doesn't know about such a rule (just like for the written rules, btw), usually in PM. Most of the time, that works with no problems. For some, it doesn't...

Added to that: a lot of players don't like to log abuses, and some of those that do insist on being kept informed about any action we take (which is not the way we work, if we contact the player that sends an #abuse, it's either for further info, or just a "ok, we got the abuse").

Edited by revi

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On 2.05.2018 at 12:41 PM, Entropy said:

Piss me off more and you will lose your mains too.

 

Fully profesional and esential answer from developer to user...

Jesus guys... when u all will get tired of sh** like this, PM me to get name of the game which is really worth sacrificing our precious time w/o all this kind of treat and "changing the rules of the game during its duration" ... 

Wish U best EL community.

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On 5/17/2018 at 6:12 AM, Antio... said:

 

Fully profesional and esential answer from developer to user...

Jesus guys... when u all will get tired of sh** like this, PM me to get name of the game which is really worth sacrificing our precious time w/o all this kind of treat and "changing the rules of the game during its duration" ... 

Wish U best EL community.

 

 

Kind of sucks we have to tippy toe when talking to radu and some other mods. Reminds of me when I need to interact with some type of law enforcement in real life. That bad gut feeling you get when you have to make threads like this, or even replying tho them :s

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