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konec

Neno hunting rules and bans

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It was long time ago, when neno was introduced to the game. There were a lot of people searching for it, trying to figure out how to kill it etc. I d say whole EL comunity (and by that time it was really a lot of people and no alts) was living by looking for neno and trying to kill him, because day stones were not before neno was introduced. Me and my brother we did hunt it a lot, we found that it can be killed on any map if you have enough people, some are better, some worse. But then if there was a team, they tried to kill him everywhere. Now the situation is different, we have no rule 5 therefore a lot of alts – people using them for the way they want.

 

Me and my brother, we always liked hunting neno (even though sometimes it teleported 13 times and took 9 hours of following and trying to kill a single 1), so I created 5 alts named „name_1-5“, they got banned by wizzy and he told me I broke rule. I said OK, my fault and asked if He can unban one of those, he did that – ok from then we never created chars like that. We created other ones and I was „stopped“ by radu, that we cant have alts that we dont actually play, I said OK, what do you consider playing an alt – I was asking about stivy sitting on spots with alts waiting when characters „spawn“ on exact place to kill them, he said that even his lowest alts have few skills in 30s, ok so I promissed to lvl them and not to just sit on spawns of neno if I dont hunt him, just to observe if he appears there. Then again I know I „broke“ the rule once, even though it was afk, but sitting on a spawn and I agreed that radu banned my alt, promissed not to do that again.

 

Then we were contacted by Revi, that we created huge number of alts and that mods were about to start locking them. Ok, we stopped creating chars.

 

You can see that every time we broke rules (even though mainly it was not intended) we agreed that alts got banned, or did other solutions to prevent rules breaking.

 

Today early morning we were hunting neno again after about 3 weeks (this time in PV), then we lost sight of him and few mins after that my alts (one sitting on a bag(you can see in printscreen attached) ready to lock if neno goes there, other one sitting in Dung portal room) got booted by radu… I asked him what happened and he said that we already discussed that, and that we cant have 13 alts afk sitting on spawns – I have NEVER seen anyone reporting neno in dung portal room! So if he really spawns there how could I POSSIBLY know that? Then sitting with any alt on any spot afk could be taken as rule breaking, because who can say if there is no spawn there? And Radu could probably see that the one sitting in PV on bag ready to lock neno was definitelly not on spawn!

 

Then radu said in 6 that hes going to remove neno by next update..OK then you can remove all haidir dailys, cause people know where mobs spawn and waiting there if they appeared, so they can kill them. I could not find any rule stating that one cannot sit on spawn (if you know where it spawns), or am I wrong?

 

Radu‘s argument was that Stivy has 7 alts (ofc. Only Radu or Stivy can confirm that). And when there are 20+ spawn maps of neno, how would anyone want to hunt it with 7 characters max?). OR make a rule that a person can use max. 7 characters at once or whatever..

 

OFC. Neno was never intended to be hunt by 2 people at the begining, but same was with instances and how many are run 2 men everyday? There is none(or quite few) who really cares if someone reports neno in glac/ida/ws/gp/mm/melinis...and now it is a problem when 2 people want to hunt it few times in a month.

 

Id like to know why the following characters were banned, which rules were broken?:

sewer1 (sat in PV near zirak flag)

henry_proper (sat in Dung portal room)

whimoc (sat in MM close to storage)

Map location of sewer1.png

Location of sewer1.png

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That sounds to me that when you were told to stop, you just started looking for another way around the ruling.
(See rule 1 for that...)


When I talked to WhitelightLord, he said he would discuss it with you and get us a list of characters. I'm still waiting...
And at that time, I was not aware that you had already been warned a second time... Otherwise, based on that and on rule #7, I see easily 9 other chars that could be locked, strictly within the letter of rule 7 (character spamming, specifically the bit about "similar names" which is not restricted to a name followed by a number).

Edited by revi

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Just one thing at what point are you guys updating the rules in forum section rules.

I THINK ONLY THE RULES THAT ARE SPELLED OUT IN THE OPEN AT ONE PLACE TO BE READ AND WRITTEN THERE SHOULD BE APPLY ABLE. NOT SOME RULES PUT OUT IN CHANNEL 6 OR PUT INTO GENERAL CHAT WHERE IT GET LOST.

Reason not everyone reads the channel 6 as they do not have it on are not playing at the time, or did not play yet when it happend. Second new players and old ones that return from long time only have the outdated rules to read and are wondering if its really allowed or forbidden.

So far we have what radu said in channel 6 month ago and a post of a vote for new rules that never got finished or put into rules but where some mods are applying them as rules.

People want it in black and white what is allowed or not. And the forum has a place for it. that did not get updated since 2012. Multiplayer rule number 5 vanished 2014. the new rules that radu did/did not put in place are a lot newer and there is a lot of confusion what is allowed and what not.

Any rule that is not in black and white will open up for treatment that feels unfair, as some will not know is that what a mod say true or not.

 

 

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I dont want to argue with you Revi..everyone can see that from their point of view and you are a MOD... OK,

Just one thing, wizzy locked my first 5 neno alts - sewer1-5 - I agreed (really did not know they were breaking rules, but ofc they did), so he locked them and later I asked him if he can unlock one of those that it wont break any rule if there is just one. Then there are my first alts Konec1 and Konecc - I know now they are breaking rules too and if it is so big problem, you can lock them - just pls let me know so I could get out of them everything from storage then I have no problem to kill/lock/destroy whatever with them. But Wizzy told me that I can create chars as long as they are not connected by that way (meant numbers), since then I havent created any character that would have similar name.

Then there was the thing with Radu that I described earlier, then you with WLL and now again with Radu..yea..we do seem to be troublemakers, but we really dont know what we do wrong as there are no rules broken in what I can see.

And rule 1 "Dont be a troublemaker Do not cause problems on purpose that require the attentions of moderators, if in doubt, dont do it." Would you please tell us what attention of moderators do 13 logged chars require? or what other that we did require moderators attention?..... you can say what you want to be honest. If any mod want, they can use this to anything. We have really never intended to be troublemakers and still dont see what rule (saying smth exact) were we breaking.

So as Vino said...there should be CLEAR rules that every player can access and know, make clear rules how many alts can a main use, where they can sit or not if afk or not etc...just please make it CLEAR. I dont have problems with obeying rules, I just dont like when one person (mean STIVY) can do smth what others cant because what we did is just another  way of what stivy does all the time when sitting with alts, observing if someone spawns, so he can kill.. just make clear rules because w/o rules there is chaos and chaos leads in situations like this.

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All rules should be spelled out on the forum to make it clear for everyone to follow. The exception being some rules will have an  *.  The * denotes that a certain player need not follow that rule.  ;)

[/muck raking]

 

The above is my personal opinion and in no way reflect the opinions of the staff and management of EL.

Edited by RipTide
disclaimer! best off to keep one's mouth shut

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Lol, the game got like 50? 100 ? players and u keep locking even their alts? servers wouldn't handle them? In my point of view they are not breaking the rules with it, they just check map what the neno is on, but still need to hunt him, track him and if it teles it is pain in ass looks on newly added maps (which are crap to hunt it on like irinveron...srsly?...) if he runs u can even track him couple of hours w/o finding... Make him he won't tele under 1 or 2k hp and i guess they won't use so many alts... 

Also maybe if you updated EL ency , there wouldn't be so many troubles about these invented rules based on your mood, 

+Only difference i see between them killing neno (and camping on spawn) and stivy's alts (camping on spawn) that you have $$ from stivy killing players and make them losing brick

++Neno wasn't meant to be killed by 2 people and so wasn't instance meant to be farmed by 1 person (for example Finesse and his 7 or maybe more alts)

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Perhaps I am wrong but I swear awhile back Radu said he people can camp spawns of ivan, joker ect.  I never seen anything about not being able to the same thing for neno.... alts camping should be ok for everyone not just one player

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Regarding rules in "black and white":

There is no way any list of rules can cover every scenario that could ever happen in-game, nor every way a player will try to weasel around the rules.  The best the mods (and radu!) can do is moderate to the best of their ability to enforce the spirit of the rules and the spirit of the game.  

The in-game ruleset that you can find next to the Encylopedia is the default ruleset.  Easy for everyone to find. No excuses.

 

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Of course Aislinn is right. This issue has be debated to the point of ad nauseam. Pounding sand can make frustrations pass easier. :)

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Of course you cannot put every scenario in rule but you can make a wording that at least stands as basic rule. As it is right now, it is radu says something in channel 6 about this is forbidden, there is nothing in the official written rules that covers his decicion (and he has the right to decide that.) and the wording goes lost into the depts of channel 6 logs and memories of players that might have been online and attentiv to the wording. Making a post of that statement into the rules section of the forum would make this easier and less felt as if single people get singled out.

As it is right now its a mess.

And the ruleset send in the encyclopedia in basic client is outdated. It still lists illegal multiplaying. and it does not cover anything discussed here, besides maybe rule 6 about Appropiate names. and maybe rule 8  but there it would be debateable what is a short periode of time.

Edited by vinoveritas

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9 hours ago, Aislinn said:

Regarding rules in "black and white":

There is no way any list of rules can cover every scenario that could ever happen in-game, nor every way a player will try to weasel around the rules.  The best the mods (and radu!) can do is moderate to the best of their ability to enforce the spirit of the rules and the spirit of the game.  

The in-game ruleset that you can find next to the Encylopedia is the default ruleset.  Easy for everyone to find. No excuses.

 

The English ingame ruleset is the default one. The translations are very much out of date, and in most cases plainly wrong (even the numbers don't fit anymore)

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I am speaking about the english one revi.

And the encyclopedia that sir_odie distributes is updated. the default not and it does not cover the cause here.

Edited by vinoveritas

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That one is as up to date as you can get. I am using the rule set that came with the full 1.9.4 client (with a "last modified" date on my system of 2015-01-15).

 

Edited by revi

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Only if you update it manually. at least the client i downloaded 2 month ago was not updated in the data.

I redownloaded windows client and installed it and it looks as if there the rules are updated like in the encyc so ok new players do not get the illigal multiplayer rules. and the newer invasion and invance rules. Old installation need to manual update it, To bad that the update push service that learner told me the server has (and that he uses in OL a lot, is not used here to update outdated data files.

it does not matter for me if the rules are in Forum or in the rules in the encyclopedia, the only thing what i would like is that rules are declared, especially if its in consideration to multiplaying as most rules did not take that in account when made. And quite a few rules where made by radu and enforced that are not written down in a way that you can read them.

Edited by vinoveritas

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And exactly those rules are incomplete.

They do not tell people that they need to play their alts and level them up,

They say nothing about breaking rules when you afk sit at spawns from neno, or joker or invdrag.

they say nothing about having chars at certain shopping npc's

they say nothing about killing their own alt for fun (something i remeber you revi did tell me its forbidden when i did)

and they say nothing about maybe a lot of more rules that radu announced in channel 6 and that might get enforced.

So i am saying if you make a rule that you enforce put it on forum or update the ecyclopedia  put them so people can find it. Its just fair for players.

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So basically you are telling me nobody should be expected to use common sense.  Seriously, was the game intended to be single player with afk alts everywhere camping/guarding/blocking special-interest spawns?  

And killing one's own alt repeatedly definitely falls under the no spamming rule as the death messages spam channel 6.

And as always, the usual suspects instead of saying "Okay, I didn't realize, sorry" will go on and on about how unfair everything is and how awful the game is, the mods are, radu is, the rules are, blah blah blah.  Enough already.  

This is a game, people, not your livelihood. Nothing is etched in stone, and things have changed and will change in the future as we see how people behave or how things get manipulated.  Deal with it and try to have some fun instead of constantly harping on such minor things!

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Well i have said my point. And no some rules that where enforced do not comply with your rules. When revi told me about not allowed to kill my noob char. there was 1 kill not 10 or 100 in a row. so it was not spamming at that point. 

I am not saying the mods are bad or the game is aweful. I am saying that if radu makes a rule tells about it in channel 6. Enforces it. it should be written down in a place that everyone can look at and find it.

For example radu says in channel 6: no alts on spawns of creatures that spawn on various maps,  then put a post in forum saying that. Everyone will be able to read it. and there is no more question for people, as it is down there. readable published at a place where people who where not online can see it. Because if someone was not in channel 6 or playing for a while and come back he might not hear about the ruling. And really breaks rules without realizing.

 

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It is exactly as Vino said, personally, I swear I saw Radu said in 6 (if you want I can search that in char logs) : from now everyone can camp spawnss, jokers ivans etc. 

I know it might have been in affect, but he said that! And now the same person says someone cant do that. Now choose when there is no rule written about it. If there was, there would be no doubt, but there is not! It was said when speaking about stivy camping on a way to hydro but I really see no difference, only as koddy said that stivy brings radu dollars..who is then ofc. untouchable! Then make it a rule..if you give (or make others give) radu dollars, you can simply do what others cant..np, I can live with that...but make it clear.

 

But please get to the question - what exact rule have sewer1, henry-proper and whimoc broke? If they were on spawns it was by chance cause as far as I know there are NO known exact spawns of neno..at least I couldnt find that in ency, nor in forums..and believe me that I have tried it, because then one should be afraid of sitting on any spot afk just because there might be a spawn??!! Well..yea you can get banned for that, srsly?

 

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You get an answer faster when posting in the proper forum... Here, everyone can give his opinion,
so the original question can get lost. Anyway, I suppose you need to wait for radu to look in the forums

Edited by revi

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Ok, aislinn.. I have again read whole rules word by word and there is nothing said about alts 'camping' on spawns, nor how many alts can one player have logged in, nor where they can sit or not, then would you be so kind and tell me how on the earth can i get that from rules written right next to the encyclopedia that you are reffering to?

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As Learner told you in the other thread you started, you'll have to wait for the one who actually locked the characters, i.e. radu.

While waiting, you might want to reread this especially the last part of item 30:
"Do not create a new thread on a topic if there is currently a thread on that topic already."

 

Edited by revi

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Well..in the post before, you tell me I should post in other forum to get answer faster and now you inform me of breaking rules..*facepalm*...

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I didn't tell you to post in another forum, I said

Quote

You get an answer faster when posting in the proper forum.

That was in reply to

Quote

But please get to the question - what exact rule have sewer1, henry-proper and whimoc broke?

You decided to post here and not in bans forum. Now you get to deal with the consequences.

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ref: http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?/topic/61004-alts-ban/&do=findComment&comment=592667

 

Quote

If Radu booted you, he is the only one that can cite anything ... and a valid answer from him is "your chars pissed me off", doesn't even have to be a posted printed rule.he is God and you listen to what he demands.

... and then you continue here with trying to ask or argue about what rule has been broken. Since you still haven't been paying attention to that info, locking this topic and you can wait to hear from Radu

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I asked you multiple times to stop having 13 alts online, half of them afk, to hunt neno. You said you will stop doing that and only bring them online when needed, but you kept doing it anyway. I added neno to be a team mob, before rule 5 was removed. It was never meant to be a one player with 50 alts operation. Since this is what it became, I am just going to remove it next update, because I am tired of people trying to bend the rules and shit.

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