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revi

Inflation/gc drops

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never thought i would say this , but i kind of agree in a way with Revi .

Some point's are not fully accurate , MB drop may be 70k but you will not get on that mb alone and you will usally have to split with 5-6 people , and invances should be boosted with more drops as the GC is not great.

I will sometimes leave a invance with 21-35k gc and would have used alot of ings due to tanking the mb's , dragons etc ....

 

Something does need to change though like Revi said .

 

 

But i also think we need new items,new armour's and new mob's which these new items weapons etc will be dropped from.

 

Alot of high level player's and Die hard EL players are leaving the game due to lack of new stuff coming into EL . So maby we can tie all this into one and make alot of players stay and make them more happy .

 

(PraXis)

Edited by aston

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Tl;dr: Too much gc is coming into the game, so why not replace gc drops from instance and boss monsters by items?

 

There's a lot of complaining about the market prices of EFE and armours. For one thing, this makes it uninteresting to level e.g. manufacturing: the total gc value of the ingredients for most 'big' items is (a lot) higher than the price NPC sells the item for.

 

At the same time, there's a large influx of gc into the game through invances, instances and invasions: the daily 145200 brings in on average 70k per MB, each swamp or ice instance brings in over 70k only from bosses, etc. And this is in addition to the normal gc influx through sales to NPC. Note that the high items for Daritha do not remove gc from the game: yes, it's better to buy most items from NPC, but you get most if not all of it back in the reward.

 

One way to lower this gc influx would be to replace part (most?) of the dropped gc by dropped items. A nice candidate for this would be the Enriched Health Essence that has been discussed (gives <x> normal HE on use). Perhaps extra mana potions or GHP as well, and some nice weapons, binding stones, enriched essences, etc. from time to time. Of course, total value of drops doesn't have to change, the idea is to get less gc in the game, not less value. On the other hand, too much farming will lead to lower value of the drops, which is a good thing, IM(NSH)O. That's another reason to have healing items part of the drops: it compensates one of the main cost of fighting them.

 

Again, the idea is not to lower the total value of the drops, just to lower the amount of coins coming in game.

 

I agree with the general sentiment of this post. Below I'll comment on some specific items I'd like to see changed as far as drops are concerned. At bottom of post I'll talk about the WTF instance specifically since it brings in a ton of gc. Please note these don't really apply to any one instance range:

 

enriched health essence - I would not recommend enriched health essence as a drop as now days health essence are a nice gc sink since players buy them from the NPC quite often. Thus adding this as a drop would counteract the reason for this change.

 

enriched fire essence - Yes, more and more sinks for this item keep entering the game via Daritha, which has really dried up the pool of this item. This is (almost) a base ingredient for most content in the game and as such I believe the price should be more available than it is currently.

 

binding stone - Rarity on these is comparable to where they have been in the last few years so I don't necessarily see a need to change them. However, if they did cost ~5k/gc each I think overall game economy would be more balanced.

 

capes - Combat useful capes that are not sold by npc (other than nmt) seem to be going up in price (mirror/bp). Adding these as a rare drop would be nice.

 

scythe/gsm - Adding a sell to npc option for these would be good (although that also counteracts the point of lowering gc drops).

 

rops - With the addition of invasion killer perk these have become used again. Adding some of these as a rare drop would be nice.

 

oranges - Remove automatic orange drops from choco orc/bulangiu. Maybe make it drop random chance of <none>/orange/grapes/pear/banana (chance left to right 25/25/12.5/6.5/6.5).

 

perk removals - Remove these as a rare drop (I'm looking at you MB/MILF), or randomize the perk removal drop.

 

attribute removals - Letting people change builds would be nice, adding these as a drop would make them more accessible to people.

 

invasionmeters - Highly consumable item when hidden invasions are occuring, would be nice to have as a rare drop. Would also lower the amount of eme that get removed from game this way.

 

daily cooldown reducers - Highly consumable item that should find a balance between benefit/cost if it was a drop.

 

gold/silver rings - Fighters get as drop->sell/trade to mixers->nice addition to economy.

 

matter conglomerates - Cabbage makes people strong and also fighters->harvesters->mixers->nice balance to economy.

 

wolframite/hydrogenium/dvarium ore - Not huge amounts, but if they are a drop they might be worth mixing the bars again (wolfram bars are very not worth it atm...adding wolframite as a drop could help lower price on those bars to help make great swords mixable again).

 

horse whistles - Adding them as normal drop to troll/cyclops/ice dragon was nice. Another highly consumable item which would be a nice drop.

 

Vial mold/alembic - Sell to mixers let them enjoy and not poof efe to mix them :P.

 

 

 

 

 

WTF instance specifics:

 

Typically brings in ~800-900kgc in straight gold drops. If you range everything in the instance you might spend ~175kgc on pk arrows at npc. We'll say worst case WTF instance nets ~600kgc entering the game per team per instance. I'd say there are at least 5 teams which go at least 1x/week. Right there is 3,000,000 gc entering the game each week just from this instance. I would say this is a huge contribution to game inflation. I think a good start to modify Castellan's drops such that he has 2 categories (high probability and low probability). The high probability you are guaranteed 3 with chance to get up to 5. The low probabilty has a chance similar to nexus removals currently. Note the numbers on the high probability are primarily to keep general drop value the same as curretly with 0 gc drop, but they would probably need to be adjusted.

 

High probability drops:

 

100 Rops (~40,000gc)

100 Wolframite Ore (~50,000gc)

50 Hydrogenium Ore (~75,000gc)

50 Matter Conglomerates (~60,000gc)

4 Serpent Stones (~40,000gc)

6 Enriched Fire Essences (~90,000gc)

1 Mirror Cape (~15,000gc)

4 Enriched Magic Essences (~80,000gc)

6 Oranges (~60,000gc)

3 Grapes (~75,000gc)

2 Pears (~50,000gc)

3 Banana (~75,000gc)

3 Invasion meters (~60,000gc)

3 Binding Stones (~72,000gc)

1 Day stone (~50,000-250,000gc)

2-3 Attribute removal stones (~10,000-60,000gc)

 

Low Probabilty

 

10 Daily cooldown reducers (~240,000gc)

1 Attribute reset stone (~500,000gc)

1 "Good" Perk removal stone (~400,000gc) [by "Good" I mean to this point shop only].

1 Nexus removal (~1,000,000gc)

 

 

 

 

Just my thoughts.

 

Rabbitman

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this is a really really good idea. The only downside i see would be the need for the 'assets' to be converted to gc before splitting.

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...

 

50 Matter Conglomerates (~60,000gc)

 

...

 

I like the ideas that Rabbitman has posted, just a slight issue with the congloms being 30 emu each, which means 50 of them would be 1.5k emu alone, not a very practical drop in that sense, unless you get some glyphs with it :P

Edited by Maxine

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I'm not a fighter and went to few instances (nearly all just entering) and invasions so my opinion is not the best in this case, but I think changing money drop in item drop is a loss for the fighters even if the item's selling price is equal to the gc amount dropped. Money is easy and fast to divide in equal parts for every team member. With an item the team leader must sell it in the best buying bot (prolly loosing some money because selling and buying prices can be far apart and items dropped often are cheaper) or selling it in the market (more money but is slower), or even buying it himself/herself and dividing the money with the team.

 

I suppose instances, invances and invasions are the biggest rostogol sinks, and I suppose too rostogols are the items that provide more money to EL shop so any change should be made carefully and in accordance with the Pr0 fighters to avoid any loss to the shop.

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Of course, gc is easier to divide. But the idea of my proposal is to lower the amount of gc coming in the game, and in the longer term to lower the amount circulating in-game.

 

When I see over 25 Million gc offered for sale on unofficial forums at one time (for a counter value of about 1200-1700 $), something tells me that there might be a bit too much of it in game (and no, that's not just Susje, and not just once).

 

edit: Oh, and I fail to se what shop-bought rostogols have to do with (lowering) the amount of in-game gc. (Unless of course, someone buys rostogols from shop @ 4$ each, sell them for ~16k/$ and then sells the gc obtained at 15k/$)

 

- I'm selling gc in another forum, yes... But is the first time I do it and that millions are the result of years working hard in EL.

 

Another players sell many millions too, but prolly they are leaving EL or taking a little halt from playing it because the real life.

 

Always there were rich players in EL who tried to control the market in the past. I remember a time when Learner was almost the only bot owner selling bindings, serpent stones and rostogols (very expensive), or when Luciferx spent many millions buying items in the bots and selling them after in his bots (pretty more expensive); but I don't remember radu or the mods suggesting or taking preventive measures to avoid it....

 

- Several players sell rostogols to my bots in big amounts, so if they do it prolly they have profit doing it (nobody like loosing money, in real life or in a game). I think you forgot a small thing: there are % shop discount coupons. With a 10% coupon you can buy 25 rostogols for 3.6$ each ~ 54K gc. High level players can get coupons almost for free in invasions, and prolly if they buy them can get some profit selling rostos too.

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OK, as usual you miss the points I'm trying to make, which are:

1 - There's way too much gc in game at the moment

2 - As the situation is now, there is way too much gc still flowing into the game, compared to the amount leaving.

3 - One way to correct that, would be to replace (note well: replace) the gc part of drops by items of equivalent value.

 

Yes, that would make sharing a drop a bit more difficult. How much more difficult would depend on the exact drops, several smaller value items would be easier to handle than one big item.

 

 

Now to your comments:

- That you specifically are selling gc (whether for the first time or not) is completely irrelevant to this problem. That those millions are the result of years of hard work, good. It still means that you have 30M gc (the original amount you offered) available which you do not need to play the game. Whether that is you, Susje, or anyone else, is irrelevant. What is relevant is that there is with that single person, basically 30M gc too much in game, and I'd be really surprised if there's only one player in that situation.

 

- I nowhere said or suggested that you tried to control the game or the market (for whatever item you want to consider). And again, that's completely irrelevant to the subject I wanted to discuss.

 

- I'm still wondering what the relevance of shop-bought rostogols is to the problem of excess gc in the game. You spectacularly failed to address that point (or any other I tried to make).

 

The only explanation I can think of (for both your dragging rostogols into here, and your current agressive stance) is that this situation is very much to your liking, and I tried to figure out why. Buy/sell prices of those those same rostogols, coupled with the $ price of gc could give an indication.

 

But now that you mention buying rostogols on your bots, lets have a look at that again, shall we?

LightPresent: buys for 51000, sells for 59900, profit per stone = 8900 gc;

EternalTrader buys for 56000, sells for 65500, profit per stone = 8500 gc;

El_Cid buys for 58200, sells for 61900, profit per stone = 3700 gc.

compared to you buying rostogols directly from shop: 4$/stone, so 60k gc/stone buying. that means you'd make 20-60 cents (0.2-0.6$) profit for each rostogol you sell. Even better than the measly 1000gc I mentioned before.

 

Again, I have no problem you making a profit, but please do not behave as if this is just aimed at preventing poor little you making a little profit from your years of hard work.

 

There is a serious problem with the amount of gc in the game, which hurst everyone but the top players. Less gc in game wouldn't hurt them, and help everyone else.

 

But I guess you get what you want, I'll just give up on this suggestion, and any other discussion concerning it, and stop trying to think about what can be done to improve the game. Apparently the short term personal profits from the current situation are more important than any long term improvements (and to be clear, again, it is not only you, Susje, that reacted that way)

 

- I suppose you posted this as moderator, because nothing says is just your opinion as player. Doesn't you?

 

- I understand Radu prefers players poor in gc who buy all in the shop with $, and money entering/leaving EL rate is very important too. Radu advertizes EL as a "FREE 3D fantasy MMORPG", but I understand nothing is free in this world and Radu wants money for his work (for paying server costs and some profit for him, of course) and that money comes from the shop sales. I really understand this and support it.

 

- On the other hand, some players (not only the high level ones) spend $ in the shop but want to get some profit from the gc they earn working hard (harvesting, mixing items, micromanaging his/her bots, fighting in invasions/instances/invances....) so they can get fun and buy expensive items ingame without spending $ all the time. I suppose the only 2 ways of money leaving EL are buying in the NPCs or buying in the shop in the form of $, but some players transform the gc surplus in $ and then buy from the shop (rostogols, haidir passes, daily cooldowns, etc...).

 

- Both sides are respectable. Keeping both sides happy is a difficult balance. Every little change in EL can have a butterfly effect: it can have a greater effect at the end and change several aspects of the game (market, bots, people buying in the shop, .... ). By example, if you change the gc drop that could change the items' price in the bots (rostogols and every item dropped by the creatures), and if the prices change that could change the amount of items bought in the shop.

 

Some time ago I saw a player streaming an invance. Clearly it was too easy for him: he streamed all the invance, was chating by skype while was playing and even checked some steam stuff at the same time. It seems the only way a player with that level can loose a rosto is a lag spike in his/her connection or in the server. Prolly if the drop changes, that won't affect too much to that high level players because the rate (money won/money lost in the invasion, instance or invance) is still positive. That players usually spend the gc surplus buying in the shop.

 

But another players with worse builds really work hard for completing it without loosing rostos or breaking armors/weapons. They work hard for having a positive rate. Why a fighter would risk loosing rostos, breaking armors and weapons (even sometimes rare ones) if the drop is low?

 

- I don't have an aggresive stance, I'm just giving my opinion about this subject (and I told prolly my opinion is not the best because I'm not a fighter). If this is a democracy, giving my opinion is positive I think. If you don't want opinions opposite to yours, Radu can change it in the next update without asking for opinions. He's the owner.

 

- I have profit, like everyone in EL who works hard and will have profit no matter if the rostogol (or any item in EL) price goes up or down because I will keep working hard.

 

- I don't want you give up your suggestion without discussing about it. I have nothing personal against you. I want EL takes the best decision, considering before the pros and cons.

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In a normal inflation all prices go up and things do not change too much. I know it is a dangerous know to turn, but how about adjusting NPC prices to reflect the increased gc-amount? This might also make it more profitable to manu/craft/alch things again.

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