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LongMustache

prices

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This is only armors and weapons, but as a soon-to-me manufacturer i would feel more motivation if some npc prices would be fixed.

 

Great swords:

Mix price: ~57mil

NPC price: 40mil

 

Solutions:

#1: rise npc price to 50-55mil

#2: Change binding stone to EFE (and maybe EEE just so it wouldnt be so cheap). Total manu price 57mil -> 43mil.

 

Honestly, 40mil seems rather cheap anyway, so rising the price to 50-55m would be nice.

 

 

Titanium chainmail:

mix price 13kgc

NPC price: 5kgc

 

 

Solutions:

#1 Rise the price to 10-13 kgc.

#2 produces 2 chanimails at a time instead of one.

#3 swap EFE for something else (no idea what, though).

 

Iron chainmail:

mix price: 750gc

npc price: 200 gc

 

Solutions:

#1 rise the price to 700gc

#2 rise the price to 500gc, remove 4 iron bars from recipe.

 

Iron Shield:

mix price: 560 gc

npc price: 400gc

 

Solutins:

#1 rise the price to 500gc

#2 remove 2 iron bars form recipe (or 2 steel bars).

 

Spirit es:

 

NPC price: 9 gc

Mix price: ~15 gc

 

Solutions:

#1: rise npc price to 13gc.

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:P remember times when the npc prices where all higher then the self making prices, as the prices where lower. But really, the prices for the npc's could do with some logical adaption that would go into the normal part too,

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Main idea of EL manufacture system is if you want skilling you must pay for it

Yes, but some of the items aren't worth making, because the exp they give is insignificant for the price you pay.

 

I.E. I want to make some great swords, but i cant, because im not willing to pay 15kgc for just 800 exp.

Edited by Helklo

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I.E. I want to make some great swords, but i cant, because im not willing to pay 15kgc for just 800 exp.

The 15k is not for the exp, but for the chance to make a rare, so like a lottery.

 

If NPC prices should be higher so more quest-items would be worth to make, would you need to buy bers from NPC.

And EFe prices would go even more up.

I make my bars now, it make the - worth to make - daily quest items close to free.

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You might also wonder why some of the required rare items have increases that much in price, relative to harvest items:

 

At one time, some typical prices were:

FE: 3gc, binding stone: 7000 gc, EFE: 6700 gc, steel bar: 47 gc, silver ore, sulfur: 2 gc, iron ore 3gc

now:

FE: 5gc, binding stone: 22000 gc, EFE: 12000 gc, steel bar: 70 gc, silver ore, sulfur: 2.5 gc, iron ore 4 gc

 

so the increase is:

FE 1.67×, binding stone 3.28×, EFE 1.79×, steel bar 1.49×, silver ore, sulfur: 1.25×, iron ore 1.33×

 

of these items, only the price of steel bars has reached the NPC sell price..

 

And this morning there was this:

[radu @ 6]: there is something interesting with the prices
[radu @ 6]: there are more bindings, EFEs, EMEs, etc. enterign the game via antural means than being used
[radu @ 6]: and yet they are very overpriced

 

You really think the solution is adapting the NPC prices?

 

(as an aside, titanium chain mail is not freely available from the NPC, it's a bit of a special case)


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<...>

 

 

Well, inflation is to be expected, because there aren't enough ways to remove gc and it just piles up. And even though these low npc prices reduce inflation by forcing people to buy stuff from them, i don't think its the right way to go, its just too boring. People like making stuff for themselves.

 

Being able to buy stuff from NPC is a good thing, but when npc prices are so low that making anything is a tremendous waste of cash, it becomes not fun anymore.

 

As for tit chain. I buy them from Emporium for 5300gc. It might be a "special case", but it still prevents anyone from making them for reasonable prices.

 

 

<...>

Godswords yeah, but it used to be 47kgc like a year or so ago. What changed? Binding price changed.

 

I make my own daritha items, too. But, i cant make some of them as npcs are underpricing them.

 

As for FE price, i don't see any reason why they would go up i price. They are super easy to make, you can mix them all day semi-afk, almost like harvesting. Materials are cheap and easy to obtain. #5 rule is gone, so making them is even more of a joke now.

On top of that, if FE price rises -> steel bar price rises -> people stop making steel bars and buy them from npc -> FE price drops.

Edited by Helklo

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As far as Daritha items go, the only one that kills me is the titanium chain. Fork out 14kgc for good exp, less the 1kgc she gives you back. I'd rather get the new steel or titanium items. The exp is better and the out of pocket is a lot less.

 

NPC prices should be a cap on run away over pricing,

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I don't think NPC prices should be increased. They are a cap.

 

If we increase those, we are only hurting the mid range player. 40k for them is a week's work.

 

The overpriced items are due to people unnecessarily overpricing the ingredients. Fix that issue instead.

 

Another compromise is sell enriched essences at NPC for 5k to 10k each, bindings for 10k and serpents for 7.5k. Then remove the final product from NPC but sell it from EL-shop. This way no one gets screwed over by ing prices and mixers get to mix stuff. No mixer around? Buy item from shop.

 

Edit: This *shouldn't* cause a big price increase because 10k for binding + 30k for wolf bars = 40k is what great swords cost now at NPC. All we are doing here is controlling non-harvestable ingredient prices.

Edited by hussam

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I don't think NPC prices should be increased. They are a cap.

 

If we increase those, we are only hurting the mid range player. 40k for them is a week's work.

 

The overpriced items are due to people unnecessarily overpricing the ingredients. Fix that issue instead.

 

Another compromise is sell enriched essences at NPC for 5k to 10k each, bindings for 10k and serpents for 7.5k. Then remove the final product from NPC but sell it from EL-shop. This way no one gets screwed over by ing prices and mixers get to mix stuff. No mixer around? Buy item from shop.

Agree with this option.

Right now the ingredients are sold in the shop, but for prices that are even higher than most in-game prices.

If this cuts severely into radu's income, an alternative source of income, a new item (c2-range arena tickets?, or the equivalent of plats for buying store items in-game) could be introduced ;)

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Spirit es:

 

NPC price: 9 gc

Mix price: ~15 gc

 

Solutions:

#1: rise npc price to 13gc.

 

 

"Solutions" like this one won't work anyway.

 

Your suggestions in most cases tend to leave the NPC price still less than mix cost.

 

The end result would be continued purchasing from NPC since it's still cheaper than the mix, just costing everyone more, adding to inflation.

 

(Even I as the top alcher, who still does a motherload of alching, buy from the NPC at times when the ess cost is lower than (or even equal to) ing cost. Level with the other items where NPC is too expensive.)

Edited by Burn

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Iron chainmail:

mix price: 750gc

npc price: 200 gc

It is very likely that this is intentionally cheap so new players can afford it. Same goes for the 100gc padded torso armor, the 350gc iron sword, the 400 gc iron shield and the 9gc health essences/spirit essences.

Edited by hussam

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If we increase those, we are only hurting the mid range player. 40k for them is a week's work.

a day's*

 

Seriously, 10k iron ore or 5k LE. Thats 12 hours, 16 at most.

 

 

 

The overpriced items are due to people unnecessarily overpricing the ingredients. Fix that issue instead.

 

Another compromise is sell enriched essences at NPC for 5k to 10k each, bindings for 10k and serpents for 7.5k. Then remove the final product from NPC but sell it from EL-shop. This way no one gets screwed over by ing prices and mixers get to mix stuff. No mixer around? Buy item from shop.

 

Edit: This *shouldn't* cause a big price increase because 10k for binding + 30k for wolf bars = 40k is what great swords cost now at NPC. All we are doing here is controlling non-harvestable ingredient prices.

 

Its a matter of preference i guess, but i really dislike when you buy everything from npc. The whole fun in RPG game for me is to collect stuff, rather than buy from npc. Thats why i started this thread to begin with. :)

 

 

Iron chainmail:

mix price: 750gc

npc price: 200 gc

It is very likely that this is intentionally cheap so new players can afford it. Same goes for the 100gc padded torso armor, the 350gc iron sword, the 400 gc iron shield and the 9gc health essences/spirit essences.

 

 

Then why make mix price so high. Radu could reduce the making price and exp, everyone would be satisfied.

 

and tbh, no one uses iron chains anyway, either augs or steel chain. Same for iron shield and padded torso. spirit ess arent even used by newbs either.

Edited by Helklo

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Its a matter of preference i guess, but i really dislike when you buy everything from npc. The whole fun in RPG game for me is to collect stuff, rather than buy from npc. Thats why i started this thread to begin with. :)

Sure, collecting ings is the fun part.

Ideally, the higher grade the armor is, the tougher it should be to collect ingredients. All ings should be either:

  1. Harvested.
  2. Bought from NPC.
  3. Monster drops.
  4. Mixed items such as steel bars.

With the exception of starter armor that is intentionally very easy to make, all armor and weapons should be a combination of ALL of the above and not just some.

 

For starter armor, you have leather sets with ings that are very easy to collect. Then comes steel chains and augmented pants which supposedly require than you have leveled up your alchemy a bit to mix bars. Then comes high level armor such as titanium sets which require hydro from a PK map (or NPC). Then, supposedly, if you want dragon armor, you go slay a dragon and collect its scales :P or have someone do it.

Funny as it is, this creates a very sustainable system. It allows us to keep adding higher monsters and better armor as people keep get stronger and as their mixing level keeps gets higher.

 

The price of the final product should only depend on the the skills needed to collect ings and the mixing level.

Right now, it doesn't. There are items such as bindings whose price changes even though there is no skill required to obtain them or a NPC that sells them. As a mixer, that makes no sense to me.

With the current system, I won't bother collecting ings and I will just look for final product on a random bot.

 

If we control the price of current 'rare' ings by selling them at NPC in addition to ones obtained by accident, we actually bring back a RPG aspect where the community is important. It means we start trading and interacting with each other more.

I would need a high level fighter to kill DragonA for its scale drops and 100+ level mixer to mix my high grade armor instead of just buying it from NPC.

We make everyone happy, fighters and mixers and we can safely remove things like great sword from NPC.

Edited by hussam

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Its a matter of preference i guess, but i really dislike when you buy everything from npc. The whole fun in RPG game for me is to collect stuff, rather than buy from npc. Thats why i started this thread to begin with. :)

  1. Monster drops.

It would be nice if radu changed mob drops a lil bit. As it is now, we have male orcs with amazing drops (serp stones) and then everything after them sucks. Clops are somewhat okay, but thats it. After male orcs only DCW have good drops.

 

Maybe adding extra sources of EFE and binding stones would help drop the prices a lil bit.

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I just noticed some npc *buy* prices are weird. for example mercury is 1gc to NPC. makes no sense, considering npc buys energy ess for 3.67 (which is way to little on its own).

 

I dont mind these prices really, if it was me i would remove most items from NPCs altogether, but still all npc prices require a complete overhaul.

Edited by Helklo

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I don't think NPC prices should be increased. They are a cap.

 

If we increase those, we are only hurting the mid range player. 40k for them is a week's work.

 

The overpriced items are due to people unnecessarily overpricing the ingredients. Fix that issue instead.

 

Another compromise is sell enriched essences at NPC for 5k to 10k each, bindings for 10k and serpents for 7.5k. Then remove the final product from NPC but sell it from EL-shop. This way no one gets screwed over by ing prices and mixers get to mix stuff. No mixer around? Buy item from shop.

 

Edit: This *shouldn't* cause a big price increase because 10k for binding + 30k for wolf bars = 40k is what great swords cost now at NPC. All we are doing here is controlling non-harvestable ingredient prices.

That could work.

 

It gives mixers incentive and motivation. Seeing manufacturing as just another grinding task instead of something where you create things of value was quite a blow for me. At the same time your suggestion keeps some stuff for the shop.

 

Alternatively, and radically it might make sense to remove all NPC sell options. Maybe some NPCs could be modified such that they work like radu's shop, just from ingame. And other NPCs could work like a broker with the options

- try to sell $ITEM for price XX.

- what offers are there for $ITEM? --> list of offers and I can pick and pay those I like

- collect income from $ITEM which I gave it to sell on my behalf.

These NPC for instance could keep 10% of the revenue for themselves as to avoid abuse. The NPCs could also just keep their product palette as now. So a potion NPC would only broker potions, a armourer only broker armours etc. It would keep the NPCs around but fix the problem of NPC prices which are then adjusted by the players.

 

It largely could render obsolete merchant bots, though. But maybe not, if people consider the 10% NPC fee and free choice of placement for bots a sufficient advantage.

Edited by Elke

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Main idea of EL manufacture system is if you want skilling you must pay for it

 

No main idea is it is a Soviet style fixed price system.

It used to be profitable to manufacture but it is not anymore; if the main point was "if you want skilling you must pay for it" then it never would have been profitable/

I just noticed some npc *buy* prices are weird. for example mercury is 1gc to NPC. makes no sense, considering npc buys energy ess for 3.67 (which is way to little on its own).

 

I dont mind these prices really, if it was me i would remove most items from NPCs altogether, but still all npc prices require a complete overhaul.

 

That makes sense now since mercury is basicly free now which destoryed those who used to mine cinnibar and sell mercury,

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By the way, we have to remember, that stones are in $shop, so Radu wont want to drop the in game prices like ever.

That's always used as an argument. Yet it's not. The point is that the shop has to be profitable enough so that this game is worth maintaining. But whether that's done by selling stones or other items - that's secondary. And currently the economic system is, sad to say, quite boring. And the game is kinda only appealing to who want to level, which mostly means to fight. Yet most sensible professions as they're not only profitable, but you have to actually *pay* for them. Thus anything other than fighter or primary ressource harvester are taken out of the game as sustainable way to play the game. It also takes out of the game possibly good reasons for people to interact - another frequent reason people play these kind of games.

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By the way, we have to remember, that stones are in $shop, so Radu wont want to drop the in game prices like ever.

 

False. For starters, there's no direct relation between the shop price (in $) and in-game price in gc...

 

Then, radu has said in @6 that he would like rosto price in game to drop (that is the gc price...)

Also, he mentioned that certain items (binding stones, EFE, EME, ...) entered game faster than they were used (and that was by 'natural' means: harvest/mixing specials, monster drops, ...). And those items don't seem to be bought (much) from shop any more.

So if he cares about in-game prices, he seems to think they are too high, rather than too low...

 

And don't forget that lower (gc) prices lead usually to increased use => more potential sales for him.

 

@Elke: don't mix up shop prices in $, and in-game prices in gc. Shop prices have stayed the same for as long as I can remember (a decent number of years). What changed was the amount of gc players wanted per $ (invested in shop or used to buy gc...). I saw that rate triple in a few years.

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Maybe if radu is a good person then he wants to lower the prices. I dont know him, so i cant tell. But from a businessman perspective - the higher the price the better the business. People have more incentive to buy things that sell for more in game.

 

I agree with elke that its quite boring at the moment. But not because some skills arent self-sutainable, but because prices being at or higher than NPC price means people will buy a lot of stuff from npc, potentially leaving suppliers with less demand, which is not very inviting to make things for sale in the first place. All in all thins means less multiplayer gameplay, and more single player gameplay, and we can probably all agree, no one here would play EL if it was a single player game.

 

 

Another market-related issue right now are the new daritha requests for high level armor that requires EFE. This made efe price to skyrocket to now anywhere between 14-18kgc from what used to be 10kgc before the new items. This in turn rises the price of metal armors (making it harder for mid-level players), tools (alembic, vial mold) which makes crafting/potioning less attractive, even though they never were very popular to begin with.

 

I wouldnt have any issues with armors prices rising, if material prices rose as well (FE, ores, flowers), at the moment new players find it harder and harder to get into the game, because of increasting prices of mid/high level stuff, yet low level money making methods still provide nearly the same amount of profits as always.

 

EDIT: there were 2 bots selling EFEs for 18-19kgc. They are gone now. Sold? Just to show how bad the situation is.

Edited by Helklo

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