prices

[RipTide]

Prices are indeed too high. I can mix all the advanced daritha items and by the time I factor in price of hydro bars, efe's, stones, etc and the chance for loss, I might as well buy from the NPC. 0% chance of loss, the gc hit is small, much smaller than 3 titanium chain.

 

Let's look at titanium shields, 2 hydro bars, 30k from npc, binding stone, almost 29k from bots. Right there the npc price for the shield beats it, without any other ingredient. If we were to remove npc selling them, the price of shields would skyrocket to 65k-70kgc. As the demand for ingredients increased, the price would only climb.

 

Next example, Squint’s titanium/steel long: I loved mixing these swords, but there is no point in mixing them with efe prices as high as they are. I am better off to sell any efe I mix than mix a titanium long.

 

All these wonderful quests we have for mixing is useless as long as prices are as high as they are. You mixers who think they will bank if NPC sales are removed, think again. You’ll need ingredients and those ingredients are going to get higher and higher in price. Just go make a hydro run and give Stivy my best as he sends you to the hot Hilton.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Aquila

[LongMustache]

The problem is that there are not enough high-level materials entering game. I realized that after i made this post. We need to see more bindings, efes, emes, enri stones entering the game. Maybe from low/mid level mobs would be a great idea.

 

Especially fluffs/feros, since the gold/hr they provide is horrible and beyond, even compared to clops and armed orcs.

 

Edit: I dont even want profits from this. idc. I want more enjoyable game experience, which is when you make stuff yourself or buy from people, as opposed to throwing cash at npc anytime you need anything.

Edited July 15, 2014 by LongMustache

[Zilding]

 

 

If we control the price of current 'rare' ings by selling them at NPC in addition to ones obtained by accident, we actually bring back a RPG aspect where the community is important. It means we start trading and interacting with each other more.

 

 

 

+1 On this... The steadily rising prices of rares (enriched essies and stones) means many more are being hoarded instead of being sold (or mixed and then the result sold), which means... the prices continue to go up.

[revi]

The problem is that there are not enough high-level materials entering game. I realized that after i made this post. We need to see more bindings, efes, emes, enri stones entering the game. Maybe from low/mid level mobs would be a great idea.

 

Especially fluffs/feros, since the gold/hr they provide is horrible and beyond, even compared to clops and armed orcs.

Have you bothered reading the other replies?

 

As I said above, radu mentioned that more bindings etc. entered the game than were used... Doesn't sound like there are not enough entering the game, now does it? So if there are enough entering the game, where do they end up? And why?

 

Wrt to increasing drops from fluff and feros: they don't drop that well, indeed. But, they are also fairly easy monsters to train on, as they don't hit especially hard and don't have a lot of critical hits. Armed orcs and esp. cyclops hit a lot harder for their a/d and HP, so are more expensive to fight. So it's reasonable that the reward (in rare drops) is larger as well...

 

And finally, buying from NPC is one of the few ways in which gold coins leave the game, which is good against inflation. (note that items breaking and such do nothing to remove gc from the game).

[Rabbitman]

 

The problem is that there are not enough high-level materials entering game. I realized that after i made this post. We need to see more bindings, efes, emes, enri stones entering the game. Maybe from low/mid level mobs would be a great idea.

 

Especially fluffs/feros, since the gold/hr they provide is horrible and beyond, even compared to clops and armed orcs.

Have you bothered reading the other replies?

 

As I said above, radu mentioned that more bindings etc. entered the game than were used... Doesn't sound like there are not enough entering the game, now does it? So if there are enough entering the game, where do they end up? And why?

 

Wrt to increasing drops from fluff and feros: they don't drop that well, indeed. But, they are also fairly easy monsters to train on, as they don't hit especially hard and don't have a lot of critical hits. Armed orcs and esp. cyclops hit a lot harder for their a/d and HP, so are more expensive to fight. So it's reasonable that the reward (in rare drops) is larger as well...

 

And finally, buying from NPC is one of the few ways in which gold coins leave the game, which is good against inflation. (note that items breaking and such do nothing to remove gc from the game).

 

 

Offtopic response: Honestly, fluffy rabbit gc drops are balanced for their a/d imo. I enjoyed training them (I stayed on them longer than I should have because I didn't want to move to the bad drops on feros).

 

Ontopic: Based on the available information, there are two main reasons that prices are so high.

 

#1 is availability of rare ings..there simply aren't many of them so people stockpile them rather than trade them.

#2 is profiteering. Intelligent traders have enough gc to just keep buying all of the rare ings as they are made, and they are making gc faster than it costs to increase their stockpile. Ask some of the power traders in the game how many binding stones they have in storage, I know of at least a few players who have over 100+.

 

In example, if more rare ings were to come into game (e.g. removing problem 1) the very rich, problem 2, would eventually run out of gc and the price on rare ings would have to drop since they would not be able to keep buying them all at that price. However, due to the shear amount of gc the very rich have (and the rate they can gain it), the rate would need to be increased a TON to keep people from profiteering and maintaining prices. For a frame of reference, if I no-life play EL, I generally make ~200kgc/week (not including WTF instance) without really trying too hard. If I make my goal to make gc, I can make ~1Mgc profit per week (not including WTF instance). That is just one player, you are talking at least 10-20 players who make similar amounts of gc.

 

As far as solutions go, no matter what you do, someone is going to be unhappy. The fact of the matter is, as long as prices are this high, the game discourages f2p and new players.

[LongMustache]

I ignored the fact that there are more bindings and EFE entering the game than used, because its irrelevant. People stockpile them because they're rare, useful and their price is increasing. If there are more coming into the game, they will be less rare, the price will drop and stockpiling them will be less attractive.

 

And tbh, stockpiling rare things makes sense, because its more fun than stockpiling gc. stockpilers will always be there and you can't do anything about it. Only solution is to make the things less rare, so that people who don't stockpile would have a chance to get them when they need them for a reasonable price.

 

Now, as far as gold removal from the game goes. Its a problem npcs or no npcs. Yet its still anti-fun to buy finished things from npc. There could be alternative methods of removing gold from the game (taxes, selling raw materials). Also, the amount of gold coming into the game could be altered:

-give a perk that converts gc from harvesting into exp,

-reduce cash drops from monsters, give them more item drops instead (more fun, too).

-Reduce cash reward from dailies, or replace cash with something else.

[saxum]

Many of the rare ingredients are being stockpiles for 2 reasons beside speculation and hedge against inflation - recycling and Increased rare manufacturing day.

I know one player who has ingredients for 20 Steel Greaves, maybe more to make Steel Greaves of Ubber Defense.

[itzman]

Definitely think the whole EL economy is - like any soviet top down imposed one - totally borked.

 

A rational approach would be to work right through everything in terms of how many minutes it takes to make an item from all harvested ing. including food, and then assign a 'standard hourly rate'

 

If it depends on 'special items' well that's different again, but for normal stuff it should be that way.

 

As for noobs - well its tough being a noob no matter what, but it soon passes.

 

I shouldn't be able to mine coal/iron ore and sell it for more money per hour than turning it into e.g. steel bars.

 

At the moment my alt is ruthless in whether she is making money or levelling up. And as skill levels rise in combat, its actually more profitable at an hourly rate to kill and loot than to do any harvesting or mixing. That is not right.

[vinoveritas]

Easy solution for this problem remove all shop items from el shop.

Introduce the elcoins 1 el coin= 10 us cent. Have one or more npc that trade those elcoins into ingredients (rare or otherwise). Create a bot that does nothing else but to check if payment that was made over webpage is recived, the player collects, and has the right shop coupons with him /to make rabatts) special sales can be also arranged over that.

This would over the long run stop inflation, and increase the sales for radu. there might be a race between gc and the el coin, but it will probably settle real fast

[LongMustache]

Easy solution for this problem remove all shop items from el shop.

Introduce the elcoins 1 el coin= 10 us cent. Have one or more npc that trade those elcoins into ingredients (rare or otherwise). Create a bot that does nothing else but to check if payment that was made over webpage is recived, the player collects, and has the right shop coupons with him /to make rabatts) special sales can be also arranged over that.

This would over the long run stop inflation, and increase the sales for radu. there might be a race between gc and the el coin, but it will probably settle real fast

I get where you're coming from. I saw this work very well in other games.

 

The GC inflation wouldnt stop though, as gc keeps coming into the game at the same rate, would still need adjustments to gc from mining/fighting.

 

It would be cool, for example, to get teleport rings and weapons from more mobs. It exchange gc drops could be reduced.

[vinoveritas]

 

Easy solution for this problem remove all shop items from el shop.

Introduce the elcoins 1 el coin= 10 us cent. Have one or more npc that trade those elcoins into ingredients (rare or otherwise). Create a bot that does nothing else but to check if payment that was made over webpage is recived, the player collects, and has the right shop coupons with him /to make rabatts) special sales can be also arranged over that.

This would over the long run stop inflation, and increase the sales for radu. there might be a race between gc and the el coin, but it will probably settle real fast

I get where you're coming from. I saw this work very well in other games.

 

The GC inflation wouldnt stop though, as gc keeps coming into the game at the same rate, would still need adjustments to gc from mining/fighting.

 

It would be cool, for example, to get teleport rings and weapons from more mobs. It exchange gc drops could be reduced.

 

it stopps as soon as there is a setup for gc el coin ratio.

 

so let 1 el coin give 100 gc and the people have something to orient themselfs, and the inflationair prices will go down

 

[LongMustache]

 

it stopps as soon as there is a setup for gc el coin ratio.

 

so let 1 el coin give 100 gc and the people have something to orient themselfs, and the inflationair prices will go down

Only if you can spend gc to buy el coins from npc. But then there would be no need for el coin to begin with, radu could just put all items for gc and give gc for $ and it would have the same effect.

 

But if you can trade el coins for gc to other players only, it would only swap hands, which wouldnt work. gc needs to leave game for inflation to stop.

Edited July 17, 2014 by LongMustache

[revi]

 

 

it stopps as soon as there is a setup for gc el coin ratio.

 

so let 1 el coin give 100 gc and the people have something to orient themselfs, and the inflationair prices will go down

Only if you can spend gc to buy el coins from npc. But then there would be no need for el coin to begin with, radu could just put all items for gc and give gc for $ and it would have the same effect.

 

But if you can trade el coins for gc to other players only, it would only swap hands, which wouldnt work. gc needs to leave game for inflation to stop.

 

(added the bold) And for that players need to buy from NPC, donate to NPC, etc. So having capped prices on armours, weapons etc through NPC actually helps slow down inflation in two ways: prices are capped, and players buying from NPC remove gc from the game...

Edited July 17, 2014 by revi

[vinoveritas]

it will help even if it is only one way, to slow progression down, after all people do not like to pay to much, and the el coins will be a very valueable trade object

so the comparison will set the price

[LongMustache]

 

 

 

it stopps as soon as there is a setup for gc el coin ratio.

 

so let 1 el coin give 100 gc and the people have something to orient themselfs, and the inflationair prices will go down

Only if you can spend gc to buy el coins from npc. But then there would be no need for el coin to begin with, radu could just put all items for gc and give gc for $ and it would have the same effect.

 

But if you can trade el coins for gc to other players only, it would only swap hands, which wouldnt work. gc needs to leave game for inflation to stop.

 

(added the bold) And for that players need to buy from NPC, donate to NPC, etc. So having capped prices on armours, weapons etc through NPC actually helps slow down inflation in two ways: prices are capped, and players buying from NPC remove gc from the game...

 

Soon we will buy everything from NPC. i bet you will enjoy it, i certainly do not. There are ther ways to counter inflation that do not take away two of the major parts of ANY MMORPG:

1. trading

2. dropping or making your own equipment.

[LongMustache]

Hydro, wolfram and seridium bars are not worth making at all, too.

Titanium ore sells to npc for 2.5. more than to players.

Feasting pots 12 from npc... 14 from ppl.

 

and sooner or later everything will reach the prices of npcs. There has to be changes, and stopping making dailies with gc rewards is a step (albeit small) in the right direction.

 

I'm losing any motivation to keep playing EL after doing some research... Its becoming a game of "farm gold from mobs to buy stuff from npc" game for me. which is not fun AT ALL. I really hope there will be changes to npc prices soon, although its unlikely :/

[jim55]

NPC should not sell anything makeable in game.

Prices might amaze you after the greed factor wears off.

[Maxine]

NPC should not sell anything makeable in game.

Prices might amaze you after the greed factor wears off.

Who's greed?

 

It is a matter of supply and demand, where some items require supplies that are virtually only available from the $hop.

As an example:

Wolfram bar (15k) needs a $erpent stone (7600 gc) and 10 ore (800 gc ea)

A serpent stone is sold for $2, aka 4x a haidir pass (8400 gc ea) or half a rosto (69k). Effectively the rosto and Haidir pass are the currency of EL and they determine the gc-$ conversion rate.

I think that, if NPC doesn't sell bars anymore, $erpent stone will go up to at least 20k and all items that need it will get inflation too. Such inflation will make items unreachable for a lot of players and widening the gap between $$ players and people who have time (and a legion of harvest alts).

 

Ultimately anything I can see that fixes inflation will hurt radu in his income. Only way around that would be to get a lot more people pay a little amount of $$ without more items entering the game.

[kapbepucm]

Such inflation will make items unreachable for a lot of players and widening the gap between $$ players and people who have time (and a legion of harvest alts).

increasing rare rate (drop chance) will solve this problem

[Maxine]

 

Such inflation will make items unreachable for a lot of players and widening the gap between $$ players and people who have time (and a legion of harvest alts).

increasing rare rate (drop chance) will solve this problem

 

Doesn't higher drop rate mean less income for radu?

[kapbepucm]

I don't think it will be fatal for radu. Anyway, people lose rosto more than they find rosto in rare drop.

Edited August 1, 2014 by kapbepucm

[LongMustache]

 

 

Such inflation will make items unreachable for a lot of players and widening the gap between $$ players and people who have time (and a legion of harvest alts).

increasing rare rate (drop chance) will solve this problem

 

Doesn't higher drop rate mean less income for radu?

 

Someone buys serpent stones from item shop? Well i guess there are morons everywhere.

 

As for income for radu. Yeah, it will drop if he changes efe/eme/bindings. And he has to deal with it and start working on the game, or otherwise #of people playing will keep dropping, which will mean even less income. I'm not talking about npc prices only, but they are a problem as well.

 

Honestly, im amazed how little progress this game had for 10 years. It still uses the original webpage and in game UI, which even then were beyond terrible.

[RipTide]

 

 

Such inflation will make items unreachable for a lot of players and widening the gap between $$ players and people who have time (and a legion of harvest alts).

increasing rare rate (drop chance) will solve this problem

 

Doesn't higher drop rate mean less income for radu?

 

 

 

Maybe, but I think a bulk of Radu's income comes from bricks and haidir passes. If he raised the find rate on bindings, enriched essies, enrichment stones, etc, all he would do would be to kick the chair out from under some of the over priced bot owners and I doubt he would lose much.

[saxum]

 

 

 

Such inflation will make items unreachable for a lot of players and widening the gap between $$ players and people who have time (and a legion of harvest alts).

increasing rare rate (drop chance) will solve this problem

 

Doesn't higher drop rate mean less income for radu?

 

 

 

Maybe, but I think a bulk of Radu's income comes from bricks and haidir passes. If he raised the find rate on bindings, enriched essies, enrichment stones, etc, all he would do would be to kick the chair out from under some of the over priced bot owners and I doubt he would lose much.

 

 

Think a bunch of money also comes from bots - new and renewal, cooldown passes, bulk removal stones and thermals.

[Alphabet]

You might also wonder why some of the required rare items have increases that much in price, relative to harvest items:

 

At one time, some typical prices were:

FE: 3gc, binding stone: 7000 gc, EFE: 6700 gc, steel bar: 47 gc, silver ore, sulfur: 2 gc, iron ore 3gc

now:

FE: 5gc, binding stone: 22000 gc, EFE: 12000 gc, steel bar: 70 gc, silver ore, sulfur: 2.5 gc, iron ore 4 gc

 

so the increase is:

FE 1.67×, binding stone 3.28×, EFE 1.79×, steel bar 1.49×, silver ore, sulfur: 1.25×, iron ore 1.33×

 

of these items, only the price of steel bars has reached the NPC sell price..

 

And this morning there was this:

[radu @ 6]: there is something interesting with the prices

[radu @ 6]: there are more bindings, EFEs, EMEs, etc. enterign the game via antural means than being used

[radu @ 6]: and yet they are very overpriced

 

You really think the solution is adapting the NPC prices?

 

(as an aside, titanium chain mail is not freely available from the NPC, it's a bit of a special case)

 

 

 

 

No offense to the rest of you, im not going to waste my time reading every post. But what Radu said is true.

 

The problem is not one person, although alot of people know.. a certain someone always hikes up prices.. Starts with an S.. (He has always been a problem, but np, can always ask me i mix for less, buy for more )

 

The main problem was rule 5 being removed. Before when rule 5 was here, people were finding ways around it. Which.. technically is against the rules in a way. But how is it fair that they can do it, and others cannot? Hence bye bye rule 5.

 

Anyways.. when rule 5 was here. When people harvested on alts, found stones, made enriched essences, they sold them to bots/players. Since there was no use to the alt they had it on. Since they couldn't legally trade it over to there main character.

 

Now that rule 5 is gone, everyone is just hoarding. People don't need half the stuff they have in there storage, but they keep collecting items, because others are, so they feel a need to do the same. Why? Just incase they ever need them. Incase they become more useful, incase they increase in price.

 

The problem is not just one person. It's EL as a community + The one person. . Just think. They are hundreds of people who harvest everyday. I hear more about people getting nexus removals within a week, then people getting bindings/enrichment stones/serp stones. Think of all those people who harvest everyday, atleast 10% of them get stones, how many people do you see selling them in 3? None.

 

Mind you, half the people don't purposly hoard they.. "Keep them in storage incase they ever need them, or whenever they start doing/using a certain skill" Now i know i've done that to. I know people posting on this topic (More then one person) have/has done the same and still is.

 

So enough with whatever ideas you guys all have. I listed the problem, and if you guys want cheaper armors/weapons, then why do all noobs sell there stuff to the person that is skyrocking the prices when you can sell to someone else for 5 gold less? but that someone can offer you 5k less on an armor (If you ask..)

 

Also, this is not just regarding enriched essies or stones, same goes with flowers, minerals, ores. Only person i see selling silver on 3 is newhope, thank god he's back right?

 

Cheers