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Entris

Add Level restrictions on "bombing" Perks.

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With the current setup we have now in EL You can create an Alt Add some perks on it and basically Kill Anything with it without Any risk what so ever.

 

Guessing that This wasn't the intended purpose of the level restricted No Dropping setup I suggest that there are Level restrictions on the Perks too, at least the "Bombing" perks that helps you cause damage in combat.

 

Set the perks up so You Can't take them until You are above the Safe no drop level and for those that already have the perks and are below that level remove the perks and give back the PPs spent on the restricted perks and they will be able to add those Perks after they are above the No drop level.

 

heh board is messing with me adding double tags :P

Edited by Entris

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It might actually not be a bad idea to not allow any perk until OA level 20-25: that way, new players will have the time to get an idea of how the game works and what the 'hidden costs' of the perks are/could be (one can always hope...).

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When guard bots were introduced - they were (if correctly coded) very very difficult to kill.

Since then a whole host of changes have been made - that make any guard bot killable for no risk at all - all it takes is time - and loads of spam in ch6/8 from the PK messages. The changes that immediately spring to mind, in no particular order are:-

  • Restore no longer restores all HP
  • Harm/poison much more powerful
  • More summons including those, with special effects
  • Summoned mobs can be stronger
  • Non drop armor/weapon
  • Low level players dont drop items
  • Much stronger players
  • Introduction of engineering
  • Much stronger weapons/armor

Several players are creating alts, and deliberately not levelling them to take advantage of this situation in other areas also - eg bag jumping in invasions & merc raids in NCA.

 

Would it be possible to prevent the non drop from working in pk/invasion kills?

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...

Would it be possible to prevent the non drop from working in pk/invasion kills?

You bring up all good points, and I think this last one is an good suggestion, but I would offer a small modification:

non-drop for newbies disappears when fighting related perks are taken.

Non-drop should also not recur on reset, so no loophole exists for that on leveled chars. Once lost, due to leveling or perks, it is lost forever.

This in addition to it not working in areas such as Nordcarn arena.

I am not sure you can remove the non-drop from invasion kills without hurting real newbies that find themselves in the middle of an invasion by accident.

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I'd be happy if anything would be done against the safe bombing that's going on in any way, and there aint a shortage of ideas as of How to do it, question is which is the best way to do it in..

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In regards to the bombing of guard bots, I would suggest making the perks not work against them. the perks that come to mind are: Mirror skin, I glow in the dark, fatal man, body piercing, self destruction.

it would keep the bombing alts from killing the bots, but leave more expensive ways open.

I am sure guard bots could be made to restore full hp with 1 restore but that might make them OP'd.

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It's not so much that the bombing alts are too strong (they aren't really), but that they can keep on attacking the bots with no cost whatsoever. But the bot has to use resources to heal itself: even if the bot kills the alt on the first hit (before the alt can hit), the bot gets ~30 damage from the 'self destruct' and 'I glow' perks.

 

So the 5 hp alt (after his latest trip to UW) does 30 dmg to the bot, and they can keep that up for hours (literally)...

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Guard bots are not suppose to be safe but they are sure not meant to be attacked by bomber alts that is not risking anything at all either.

 

I don't know if this could be called a "bug" but if it is the bomber alts are breaking the rules for exploiting a bug instead of reporting it, they do use the knowledge they have of the game to do something they know they are not suppose to be able to do (level wise going by the main chars level) and take advantage of that.

So perhaps a rule to stop the use of the alts until this is cleared could be executed, who knows...

 

A newbie feature is abused to kill things without risk should be against the rules IMO.

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Guard bots are not suppose to be safe but they are sure not meant to be attacked by bomber alts that is not risking anything at all either.

 

I don't know if this could be called a "bug" but if it is the bomber alts are breaking the rules for exploiting a bug instead of reporting it, they do use the knowledge they have of the game to do something they know they are not suppose to be able to do (level wise going by the main chars level) and take advantage of that.

So perhaps a rule to stop the use of the alts until this is cleared could be executed, who knows...

 

A newbie feature is abused to kill things without risk should be against the rules IMO.

 

Agreed guard bots are not supposed to be safe. It's PK, nothing is safe.

 

It is not a bug. It's game design. And let's break it down to reality here. The problem isn't the bomb alts. The problem is the @PK Central message spam and now there is a band wagon of people jumping on the bomber characters for it. If you were not seeing the PK Central messages this topic would never have been made. Fact.

 

And to weigh in on the misconceptions about abusing the no drop situation. This wasn't the case for a lot of bomber alts. It worked out as more a lucky feature. For instance, I reset my alt just so I could take the bombing perks some years back with Senzon/Shultz/Bigkav/etc so we could bomb bots and try for some drops. Didn't really have to lvl the char just needed to take some negs to cover the positive perks.

 

What makes you think that it should be fair for a guard bot to be allowed to kill and get the bot owners the drops but it's wrong when a bomb alt tries to kill the bot and get the drops it might have? That's one sided argument.

 

CherUT provided a way for people to not see the @PK Central messages so the spam no longer fills your screen. I would suggest trying it then see if the bomber alt's really "bother" you like you're all saying. I suspect that it wont. Out of sight, out of mind.

 

As I stated before, a guard bot shouldn't be allowed to kill and get drops in PK areas without running the risk of having the same treatment returned.

 

And due to what happened I really have no plans on logging on my alt and bombing guard bots anymore because the PK Central spam seemed to piss so many people off, not because of Asgnny's made up "don't be a dick" fake rule he made up. I've witnessed him personally verbally attack people in @@6 with no provocation which would violate his own fake rule. But I don't think that guard bots should be allowed to PK people/take drops without having the same risk.

 

And last but not least......

 

What would you all have done if PK Central was here 6 years ago and there was no stop PK going on like it was back then? The spam in @@6 would have been 10x or more worse than these guard bot issues you're talking about.

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What makes you think that it should be fair for a guard bot to be allowed to kill and get the bot owners the drops but it's wrong when a bomb alt tries to kill the bot and get the drops it might have? That's one sided argument.

 

As I stated before, a guard bot shouldn't be allowed to kill and get drops in PK areas without running the risk of having the same treatment returned.

 

Many congratulations Paul, you just shot your own foot off....

 

Could not agree more - both sides should get a chance to gain / lose from the attack.

 

At the moment these low level chars are free to attack the guard bot at no risk whatsoever......

 

 

So currently - the bot stands to lose, the attacker can only win

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Guard bots are not suppose to be safe but they are sure not meant to be attacked by bomber alts that is not risking anything at all either.

 

I don't know if this could be called a "bug" but if it is the bomber alts are breaking the rules for exploiting a bug instead of reporting it, they do use the knowledge they have of the game to do something they know they are not suppose to be able to do (level wise going by the main chars level) and take advantage of that.

So perhaps a rule to stop the use of the alts until this is cleared could be executed, who knows...

 

A newbie feature is abused to kill things without risk should be against the rules IMO.

 

Agreed guard bots are not supposed to be safe. It's PK, nothing is safe.

 

It is not a bug. It's game design. And let's break it down to reality here. The problem isn't the bomb alts. The problem is the @PK Central message spam and now there is a band wagon of people jumping on the bomber characters for it. If you were not seeing the PK Central messages this topic would never have been made. Fact.

 

And to weigh in on the misconceptions about abusing the no drop situation. This wasn't the case for a lot of bomber alts. It worked out as more a lucky feature. For instance, I reset my alt just so I could take the bombing perks some years back with Senzon/Shultz/Bigkav/etc so we could bomb bots and try for some drops. Didn't really have to lvl the char just needed to take some negs to cover the positive perks.

 

What makes you think that it should be fair for a guard bot to be allowed to kill and get the bot owners the drops but it's wrong when a bomb alt tries to kill the bot and get the drops it might have? That's one sided argument.

 

CherUT provided a way for people to not see the @PK Central messages so the spam no longer fills your screen. I would suggest trying it then see if the bomber alt's really "bother" you like you're all saying. I suspect that it wont. Out of sight, out of mind.

 

As I stated before, a guard bot shouldn't be allowed to kill and get drops in PK areas without running the risk of having the same treatment returned.

 

And due to what happened I really have no plans on logging on my alt and bombing guard bots anymore because the PK Central spam seemed to piss so many people off, not because of Asgnny's made up "don't be a dick" fake rule he made up. I've witnessed him personally verbally attack people in @@6 with no provocation which would violate his own fake rule. But I don't think that guard bots should be allowed to PK people/take drops without having the same risk.

 

And last but not least......

 

What would you all have done if PK Central was here 6 years ago and there was no stop PK going on like it was back then? The spam in @@6 would have been 10x or more worse than these guard bot issues you're talking about.

 

 

Yeah, lets break it down to Reality here.

I don't even see the PK central messages because I am not active on Channel 6.

If you read the first post I made it is All about the Alts running around using a Newbie Feature to do Safe Killings which is Not the idea of the implementation of none drop levels.

 

You Created the Alt "long" ago to bomb bots and at that time it was Unsafe to do so, You die You Lose! and after Your reset of the Alt now made it Safe, shouldn't You have reported that to the Mod team when You realized that You could use the None Drop feature made for Newbies to Safely Kill things just by adding some perks?

 

Don't You think that a Bomber Alt doing Safe attacks to Kill a Guard bot and get drops is kinda one sided? If not you, well..

A guard bot is Not safe, they can be killed and I think most guard bots Have been killed but since they are a service from EL they are enhanced to make it Harder, so Your argument there is kinda flawed.

 

Still don't care about the PK Central..

 

And I think you have played EL long enough to Know that Guard bots can be killed and have been killed for as long as they have been in the game so Your statement is just bullshit.

 

I really don't care what you do with your bomber Alt as long as you do it fair and within the rules of EL, "don't be a dick" rule is something that is up to Asgnny to answer for and If you think that He has done something wrong You should report that to Radu or another Mod or what ever so it can be taken care of and not nag about it here..

And as I have stated several times - Guard bots are Not safe! They can be killed but they are Hard to do so because they are a payed service from EL and they Don't PK either for that matter they are Guarding a Restricted Area that are Not suppose to be free to access for Everyone so Again - drop that bullshit.

 

What I would have done if PK Central was active 6 years ago?

Absolutely Nothing because I don't hang on Channel 6 because those that are there are spamming so damn much its annoying to see.

Hell the PK Central would have been a blessing for the eyes as it was back then..

 

If PPL are so bothered with the PK Central Perhaps they should make a suggestion to get an Option to toggle it On/Off like we have on the market channel for bots..

And its not about the Guard bot attacks, for Me its all about the Safe killing.

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I love the suggestion that the game should remove no-drop for low level players if taking the perks.
I'll just take the perks with a high level character and self-destruct bots to death naked instead. kk Doesn't solve anything.
The only thing that will solve this dilemma is to make bots no-drop.

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I love the suggestion that the game should remove no-drop for low level players if taking the perks.

I'll just take the perks with a high level character and self-destruct bots to death naked instead. kk Doesn't solve anything.

(...)

That won't quite work for the simple reason that guild maps can require an item to enter them, and some use quite expensive items...

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What makes you think that it should be fair for a guard bot to be allowed to kill and get the bot owners the drops but it's wrong when a bomb alt tries to kill the bot and get the drops it might have? That's one sided argument.

 

As I stated before, a guard bot shouldn't be allowed to kill and get drops in PK areas without running the risk of having the same treatment returned.

 

Many congratulations Paul, you just shot your own foot off....

 

Could not agree more - both sides should get a chance to gain / lose from the attack.

 

At the moment these low level chars are free to attack the guard bot at no risk whatsoever......

 

 

So currently - the bot stands to lose, the attacker can only win

 

No, you didn't read what I said... I agreed....

 

As I stated before, a guard bot shouldn't be allowed to kill and get drops in PK areas without running the risk of having the same treatment returned.

 

 

My thing was more that this issues wasn't brought up due to the bomber alts, but more about the spam from PK Central.

 

 

@Entris

 

You Created the Alt "long" ago to bomb bots and at that time it was Unsafe to do so, You die You Lose! and after Your reset of the Alt now made it Safe, shouldn't You have reported that to the Mod team when You realized that You could use the None Drop feature made for Newbies to Safely Kill things just by adding some perks?

 

The alt was reset years ago to get the bomb perks. Not recently.

Edited by PaulB

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@Entris

 

You Created the Alt "long" ago to bomb bots and at that time it was Unsafe to do so, You die You Lose! and after Your reset of the Alt now made it Safe, shouldn't You have reported that to the Mod team when You realized that You could use the None Drop feature made for Newbies to Safely Kill things just by adding some perks?

 

The alt was reset years ago to get the bomb perks. Not recently.

 

 

Ah ok, but You did find out about the benefits of the new No Drops levels later and thats when you should/could have brought the attention to the situation instead of using it.

 

I'll just take the perks with a high level character and self-destruct bots to death naked instead. kk Doesn't solve anything.

 

Actually That would solve Everything, You will risk dropping the items you have in your inventory when and if you are killed, and if You would need something expensive to get to the Guard bots area that will instantly make you chicken out and stop attacking. Which wouldn't happen if You Knew You are Safe to go in there and not drop anything at all..

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@Entris

 

You Created the Alt "long" ago to bomb bots and at that time it was Unsafe to do so, You die You Lose! and after Your reset of the Alt now made it Safe, shouldn't You have reported that to the Mod team when You realized that You could use the None Drop feature made for Newbies to Safely Kill things just by adding some perks?

 

The alt was reset years ago to get the bomb perks. Not recently.

 

 

Ah ok, but You did find out about the benefits of the new No Drops levels later and thats when you should/could have brought the attention to the situation instead of using it.

 

 

Well I didn't really know till last week tbh. And I go naked with my alt so there was nothing for him to loose. The plan was to kill the bot and get back before the bot did to grab the drop or have a friend grab the drop and split it.

 

Which is why I said I agreed that there should be a risk on both sides for drops. From what I understand though there wasn't anything to even report. It wasn't a "bug" because the feature was designed for low lvl chars to no drop items which apparently was how it was being used.

 

Either way this whole situation has been a big headache. I apologized for it in another thread and as I stated, I'm done bombing alts. I wasn't doing it for bullshit so it's just not worth it imo if the past week is going to be the result anyway. I'm here to have fun not to be in long drawn-out disputes. So maybe you don't hang around in 6 but I can't begin to explain all the nonsense that went on because of some bot/alt spam in 6 with PK Central.

Edited by PaulB

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From what I understand though there wasn't anything to even report. It wasn't a "bug" because the feature was designed for low lvl chars to no drop items which apparently was how it was being used.

 

Either way this whole situation has been a big headache. I apologized for it in another thread and as I stated, I'm done bombing alts. I wasn't doing it for bullshit so it's just not worth it imo if the past week is going to be the result anyway. I'm here to have fun not to be in long drawn-out disputes. So maybe you don't hang around in 6 but I can't begin to explain all the nonsense that went on because of some bot/alt spam in 6 with PK Central.

 

 

As all features that are added there can be unintentional side effects of them that are not noticed right away and the No Drop was added to (afaik) basically help New players to get used to the game and learn more about it instead of getting gear die lose it all and quit the game. Just because a character is "low" leveled it doesn't mean that it is a "New" player as the No drop was intended for so for a knowledgeable player using a low leveled character to safely bomb (since they are spamming PK central msgs in chan 6 I will say: ) Guard bots by intentionally using a Newbie feature and Perks it should IMO be seen as a no no.

 

Radu is the only one that can bring lights over this issue and tell us what is allowed and all that so until he decides what to do we will just have to wait.

Only reason I react is because ever since I started playing EL a long time ago I have been told that EL is Not suppose to be Safe. You need to calculate the risk with your abilities or take a chance and risk it all.

 

The only thing You would have to apologize for is for using the No Drop feature to bomb things but if you only attacked guard bots that are located in an area you don't have to have a special item to get in to You are "safe" but If you had Anything in your inventory at all and didn't lose it because of the No Drop level apologize is what you should do for that.

 

I am not against attacks on Guard bots they are a part of the game and are not suppose to be safe as I have stated above, PK Central is an EL feature and if there are so many ppl annoyed because it is spamming Channel 6 that is something for the Devs to handle and IMO nothing You should be apologizing for, As You said "what if it was 6 years ago" or If all the so called PKers out there would start PKing there would be loads more PKC messages..

 

Why haven't Anyone made the suggestion to get the option to toggle the PKC messages On/Off on Chan 6?

 

If they are such a pain in the ass this would be an easy way to fix it, if no one is suggesting it then it can't be such a big issue or annoyance and just some nagging ppl that has nothing else to do :P

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