Jump to content
Eternal Lands Official Forums
Burn

Should Child of Stars negate red astro for Harvesting?

Child of Stars - Harv Astro Effect  

38 members have voted

  1. 1. Your Opinion on Child of Stars removing red astro for Harvest Events?

    • It's a Bad Thing, I want the red astro for it (I have the perk)
    • It's a Bad Thing, I want the red astro for it (I don't have the perk (yet))
    • Neutral Opinion on it
    • It's a Good Thing, I don't want the red astro for it (I don't have the perk (yet))
    • It's a Good Thing, I don't want the red astro for it (I have the perk)


Recommended Posts

Every perk has its downside. I think CoS would be over powered without the harv med downside. Leave alone.

He's got a point. If you make no down sides there is no strategy in selecting which perks your doing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is not a perk you get for pickpoints at the wraith, this is the FINAL REWARD for a very expensive manu tutorial (which gives an achievement as well). How many other quests are NOT COMPLETED ON PURPOSE because the players dont want the final reward?!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a caveat before I say this - I am nowhere near finishing the manu tutorial - only up to emerald claymore. However, even if I someday get far enough along to complete it, I probably won't. I spend countless hours harving CF flowers on the days that I have red astro for harvesting events. Without that red astro, and the ability to (more or less) safely use a harvester medallion, I can't imagine potioning . . .

 

You should earn something special for the completion of any tutorial quest - in the skill area related to the tutorial. For the manu tutorial the elimination of the red astro in the make rare/fail category makes perfect sense. I wonder however why completion of a manufacturing tutorial should have any effect at all on harvesting . . .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dear jim55.

 

In order to get Child of Stars you have to waste a load of resources and got to have somewhere around 85 manu level. What you get after completing this quest after silly amount of spended gc and effort in leveling manu is the ability to manu without checking your astro all the time. You know your fail astro is 0 most of the time and on green the rest of the time. But if you dont level past lvl 85, you still have to check your astro for high level items. Would say that 100+ manu players benefit from it mostly since they can manu 24/7.

 

But the problem here is that this should be a great perk for mixers and allarounders. At the moment its great for mixers but pointless for most of the allarounders.

 

Saying Child of Stars would be overpowering... Every month when you get paid from work (or get allowence from parents), should you also get kicked to the nuts from the boss since getting the positive only "reward" is overpowering? Or maybe you have earned it with the hours youve spent...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

85? I did it all wrong I got it at 59 but I am not sceptic.

It is extremely expensive quest - even more expensive if you try to do it now.

 

I agree that the two should not be related but they are so if change is made it should be optional with switch since those who got finished quest should not have change made retroactively.

 

And regarding zicus's question whether jim should be kicked in nuts when he gets allowance I say yes. Once for each nut. :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Correct me if I am wrong but would more events for astro include a higher chance of finding rare stones which actually help manu workers out in their skills?

 

Sounds like there is a benefit for it the way it is even though you're breaking more harv meds.

 

I didn't vote though because I don't believe there should even be perks in game that alter astrology (besides for skeptic). I just noticed that nobody has even brought up this point about rare finds up in this topic considering all the people who would have this perk are manu workers and need binding/serp/enrichment stones and ofc the most wanted nexus removals.

Edited by PaulB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While there's higher chance without red astro, it's not worth it compared to the cost of regularly breaking harv meds.

 

Those of us who heavily stock-harvest tend to do it during red astro, with harv medallion. Stones are irrelevant, we harvest for the item being harvested.

 

Want stone chances? *Then* harvest during green astro time. There's the choice available, and that choice gets lost with this perk.

 

This perk kills pretty much any use of the harvester medallion. Short of Stakhanov, using a harv med during green, or even neutral("0") astro is just a quick way to toss away gc for no reason.

 

 

While they're nice, I (and likely many others) gave up on thoughts of finding stones or mixing enriched essies a long time ago. Harving/Mixing solely for that purpose just doesn't get done.

 

Basically, noone's bringing that up because long-time harvers/mixers don't focus on it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is not a perk you get for pickpoints at the wraith, this is the FINAL REWARD for a very expensive manu tutorial (which gives an achievement as well). How many other quests are NOT COMPLETED ON PURPOSE because the players dont want the final reward?!

Maxine. What you want is all quest perks to be basically permanent buffs to the char with no down side. This doesnt happen in most game because that ruins balance, with buffs with no downsides having time limits or permanent ones always having a down side. Even flashgames manage this, so hows it irrelevant for an MMO?

Considering 80%+ of quests in EL are done simply for the reward and the quest effectively being an annoyance in alot of people view, people are just stockpiling the benifits and there's no prevention helping to widen gap between nolifers, 10 year players and money buyers against the casual, one or two year playing players.And again i can connect this to lack of competitiveness. See how i can connect so many fatal flaws together?

 

While there's higher chance without red astro, it's not worth it compared to the cost of regularly breaking harv meds.

 

Those of us who heavily stock-harvest tend to do it during red astro, with harv medallion. Stones are irrelevant, we harvest for the item being harvested.

 

Want stone chances? *Then* harvest during green astro time. There's the choice available, and that choice gets lost with this perk.

 

This perk kills pretty much any use of the harvester medallion. Short of Stakhanov, using a harv med during green, or even neutral("0") astro is just a quick way to toss away gc for no reason.

 

 

While they're nice, I (and likely many others) gave up on thoughts of finding stones or mixing enriched essies a long time ago. Harving/Mixing solely for that purpose just doesn't get done.

 

Basically, noone's bringing that up because long-time harvers/mixers don't focus on it.

Your speaking like his point is null and void. It has some relevance, and some consideration should be given to it. Your assuming everybody is in that cookiecutter build or stance, and obviously there are outliners you need to consider on. The stones/essies would be a bigger factor if the chances of the good ones hadn't been nerfed for increased shop sales... For those w/o credit card or masses on ingame gold it probably counts as a small factor atleast. And tbh harvester meds are just a waste of GC for anything but increased harv exp on events.

 

Also i dont like the fact people are being patronising to others who play the game like Jim/PaulB for their own opinions if they dont conform to yours. Why have a poll if you attack them. (I know im kind of attacking, but its the principle of ignoring the glaring and focusing on making your ingame life even easier for high levels that is infuriating me)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Basically, noone's bringing that up because long-time harvers/mixers don't focus on it.

 

 

This is your opinion. I wouldn't take this as a general consensus based off your interpretation of others game play style. I think the big issue here is more about the harvester medallion break rates with the CoS perk. More events means more experience, more gold and more blessings. These are all good things. Only downside to it is that you do break more harvester medallions which I agree, can be frustrating.

 

I would think that a possible solution for this problem would be to request through the suggestions section of the forums that with CoS perk the chance to break harvester medallions is also decreased a bit.

 

I would also like to note that weren't you aware of the effects of CoS perk before you took it? No perk should be taken without careful consideration of the risk involved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the people in this poll who voted for the second option (the majority) are well aware of this aspect and therefor have not (yet) taken the perk.

I took the perk as the very last one, just before I intended to stop and after I pretty much already stopped harvesting afk anyways. Now that I have more time, I regret having taken it.

That a perk you 'buy' has both good and bad sides (dedicated harvester for example) is one thing, but this is an award for a skill quest, not something that just requires gc, it requires a lot more and is intended to be positive, which obviously not everybody agrees on.

The positive effects are related to the skill it is the award for. The negative side effects only affect a certain class of players and play styles, true, but it is in a skill that has nothing to do with the quest, so why the crossover?

I would have preferred to be able to complete the quest without getting the perk, just getting the achievement.

 

For most people that harvest for resources, getting uninterupted time harvesting flowers (with harvest medal, only att/nexus stones, ultra rare) is way more desirable than getting more stones from ores and such (which is not what is harvested during red astro generally). I suspect that the composer of the perk simply did not realise that for a lot of people red harvest astro is perfect harvest astro. For all other astro red = bad.

 

If you want a downside, make a downside related to manu (more fails on leather helmets?), not something totally unrelated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would also like to note that weren't you aware of the effects of CoS perk before you took it? No perk should be taken without careful consideration of the risk involved.

 

 

Very aware of the risk involved, which is why I said in the very first post why I *stopped* doing the quest, so I wouldn't get this "positive" perk, because I didn't want this negative effect of what is one of the most expensive perks in the game.

 

And as Maxine points out, voting is showing I'm not the only one.

 

The very rareness of stone finding makes it not a viable "benefit" when comparing it to the cost and breakage of harvester medallions. We got a lot of changes to the harv med over the years for the purpose of making them useable.

 

You'd have to find 1 serpent stone per harv med break, or 1 binding per 3 harv med breaks, or 1 enrichment for every 2 harv med breaks... the rareness levels make this not worth it. And I seriously doubt making "reducing the break rate" with the perk would be done to a level that would make it worth it.

 

 

Here we have a problem that both goes against that for those of us who found use in them, but is stopping a lot of people from even doing a quest.

Edited by Burn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe change the mechanism behind harvester medallion breakage from astrology related harvesting events frequency to some separate astrology-independent factor. For example, harvester medallion can have a chance of 1/xk to break every time you harvest regardless of astrology and it would not be triggered by harvesting events.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Given the cost in both, time and ressources the CoS perk requires, it should end up only in a positive perk and not have a downside. Making the astrology effect an option by means of a switch as suggested above seems the best way to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I would also like to note that weren't you aware of the effects of CoS perk before you took it? No perk should be taken without careful consideration of the risk involved.

 

 

You'd have to find 1 serpent stone per harv med break, or 1 binding per 3 harv med breaks, or 1 enrichment for every 2 harv med breaks... the rareness levels make this not worth it. And I seriously doubt making "reducing the break rate" with the perk would be done to a level that would make it worth it..

 

 

And what about the harvested items received between harvest medallion breaks? These hold no gc value? The quoted argument is flawed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The page long discussion about breakage of a certain medallion is definitely off topic.

 

I think these astro perks are totally overpowered and therefore I think they were made with these drawbacks in mind. I also believe there is some strategy behind these perks and therefore it should not be changed because anyone who has the perk may disagree with changing it after such a long time in game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The page long discussion about breakage of a certain medallion is definitely off topic.

 

I think these astro perks are totally overpowered and therefore I think they were made with these drawbacks in mind. I also believe there is some strategy behind these perks and therefore it should not be changed because anyone who has the perk may disagree with changing it after such a long time in game.

 

Could you please explain how you came to this reasoning?

 

This whole thread was made with the idea of breaking harvester medallions caused by the increase, not decrease of harvest events due to the CoS perk. Very much on-topic.

 

It could be more on-topic if you could explain why you feel the following view is valid. I'm sure it would help in the topic at hand.

 

I also believe there is some strategy behind these perks and therefore it should not be changed because anyone who has the perk may disagree with changing it after such a long time in game.

 

 

Could you explain how you came to this conclusion?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The page long discussion about breakage of a certain medallion is definitely off topic.

 

I think these astro perks are totally overpowered1 and therefore I think they were made with these drawbacks in mind. I also believe there is some strategy2 behind these perks and therefore it should not be changed because anyone who has the perk may disagree3 with changing it after such a long time in game.

1Sadly people will vote for OP if it gives them an advantage

2Very little tbh atm. Should be.

3Reason for a poll....?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The page long discussion about breakage of a certain medallion is definitely off topic.

 

I think these astro perks are totally overpowered and therefore I think they were made with these drawbacks in mind. I also believe there is some strategy behind these perks and therefore it should not be changed because anyone who has the perk may disagree with changing it after such a long time in game.

 

The drawback is a mere side effect of the astro mechanism (more harvesting events being treated as a positive thing) and not some sort of penalty for the CoS perk.

Edited by hussam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1. Since i use indicators every day, i really can't see how Child of Stars is overpowering.

 

2. Can't say that we havent discussed about the fact that some players might like the current state of the perk. Thats why switch option or new harv astro perk are suggested here. I know people who like the current situation and thats why I also support alternative to keep the current situation for those who want it.

 

I thought about the switch option a bit. Switch might be a bit unfair or pointless. Why should one player have the power to decide "today i wan't more stones and i'll turn the switch on" or "today i don't want to break medallions and turn switch off" type of thing. There should be a desicion involved thats been made based on the gamestyle of every player. So there should be a choise and this should be irreversable. But still - harv astro and mixing astro shouldn't be combined by default.

 

My suggestion is a new harvesting perk, which could be optained from Redeemer. Requirement to get it should be Manu tutorial achivement, so all those who like how things are now, could get it back with just a short walk to Redeemer.

 

3. I didn't make fun of jim55, I just didn't and still don't see the logic behind his opinion. The example i made was not made towards him but towards all of us, including me. Noone should get kicked anywhere, thats why Burn made this topic...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You use indicators everyday, not everybody uses them

this poll is incredibly biased. It will mostly be those biased by the benifits so they wont think about whats best for the game instead of themselves.

Adding more perks adds more unbalance = more problems to fix... vicious circle

Point was basic game design.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No quest perk should be a double edged sword like CoS is. It's the only quest perk in the game that has an effect that many view as very negative. Every other quest perk, might take a lot of effort or expense that many may view as not worth the reward, but 99.9 percent of players would take them in a heartbeat if they were free. Not so CoS.

 

If removing /toggling the harv astro effect would make it 'too powerful' (I don't agree, but I can at least see the point), then maybe allow fail/rare astro to dip a bit into the negative instead of stopping at zero. Allowing a quest perk to have ANY major negative impact is bad, IMHO, or at least, different than every other quest perk, which is confusing.

 

Z

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just remove CoS tbh, afaik no other school quest gives such a distinct advantage.

Or if you want to fix CoS fix all the perks, cause so many give advantages out of proportion to each other that the whole system is broken.

 

Poll still biased as hell to advantages of the pr0s instead of whats best for game _o/\o/\o_

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You use indicators everyday, not everybody uses them

this poll is incredibly biased. It will mostly be those biased by the benifits so they wont think about whats best for the game instead of themselves.

Adding more perks adds more unbalance = more problems to fix... vicious circle

Point was basic game design.

 

Normally I refrain to post about other peoples posts, and I apologize beforehand if I step out of line, but Mr. Joe Butler, could you please be a man of your word and keep to your promise as made on page 1 and stop attacking other players thoughts. We know your opinion and vision by now, we know that you don’t understand the perk, or this poll, the side effect of it which refrains players to start or finish the quest, the challenges players have who have finished the quest and the suggestions what the solutions to this side effect could possibly be. It is nothing personal and I regard you highly, I detest however getting a valid discussion and opinion poll thread ruined by hackling and attacking for attacking’s sake.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

You use indicators everyday, not everybody uses them

this poll is incredibly biased. It will mostly be those biased by the benifits so they wont think about whats best for the game instead of themselves.

Adding more perks adds more unbalance = more problems to fix... vicious circle

Point was basic game design.

 

Normally I refrain to post about other peoples posts, and I apologize beforehand if I step out of line, but Mr. Joe Butler, could you please be a man of your word and keep to your promise as made on page 1 and stop attacking other players thoughts. We know your opinion and vision by now, we know that you don’t understand the perk, or this poll, the side effect of it which refrains players to start or finish the quest, the challenges players have who have finished the quest and the suggestions what the solutions to this side effect could possibly be. It is nothing personal and I regard you highly, I detest however getting a valid discussion and opinion poll thread ruined by hackling and attacking for attacking’s sake.

 

second person to call me a Mr. and then an alias.

I would like to say im not attacking for attacking sake, im also curious how you regard me highly since i have no goddamn idea who you are . Afaik, im varying my suggestions at least slightly every post, and im pretty sure if i step properly out of line ill get slapped by a mod or banned. Right now im merely giving my critisms of the perk in a somewhat cynical put partially constructive manner.

Also if i made a promise on the first page, i apolgies for breaking it, but i post most days quite alot in 3 "major" forums and about 5 more minor forums, so in the 50-100 odd posts i do in a week, i probably forgot that one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You use indicators everyday, not everybody uses them

this poll is incredibly biased. It will mostly be those biased by the benifits so they wont think about whats best for the game instead of themselves.

Adding more perks adds more unbalance = more problems to fix... vicious circle

Point was basic game design.

This poll is NOT about basic game design, and NOT intended to fix any other issues than the fact that something intended as a reward is viewed by a large group of eligible players as a penalty.

 

I think removing this 'benefit' and making it a redeemer perk where all you need is the CoS perk would be an excellent solution that will make/keep everyone INVOLVED happy.

 

Please do not use this thread, about a very specific issue, for your crusade against all the flaws in basic game design, it does not belong here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×