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DerSachse

non capped invasions are boring for noobs if high lvl chars kill mobs

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uncapped invasions are not bad. but if there are only rabbits and some IP stuff, why can fighters with pinky and a/d more than 30-50 a/d kill these mobs? ok, they will have fun, but whats about the fun of the low lvl chars?

 

i was with my alt char today in NC for getting xp, but what i did see was chars who killed the mob in 0.zero second with big fat armour/weapons. thats fucking boring and irritating to get some mob for fighting.

would it be possible to cap the whole map for some time, and beam overcapped chars to IP? the cap lvl has not to be hard, some higher should have fun, for rabbits maybe a/d 30-40 or so. but if there chars with a/d 100 and more killing noob stuff thats fully crap & bullshit, and low lvl chars will be fucked up to get some mob.

 

would it be possible to cap db and mob db too? no overcapped can take the bags.

 

 

i would like an invasion with 3k rabbits on me, so i can get the low lvl killer achievment and new ahh sry no hope perk :P but i wouldn't go to noob invasion, coz it isn't for me.

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Well, if an invasion us uncapped, by definition everyone is allowed to (try to) kill the monsters.

As things are now, setting a cap is the choice of the person organising the invasion.

 

In this case, hight levels were asked to let the lower levels have their fun first (announcement:

 

 

[01:09:07] #Message from Acelon: In honor of EL's birthday, Lucaa will be doing a wave invasion. The invaded creatures will start at rabbits, and work their way up in strength...
[01:09:57] #Message from Acelon: with each wave. There will be no caps, but to all you pros out there, try to let the lower levels have some fun while they can.

 

If such a request is not respected, you have #help_me available (and no help request came in concerning the invasion)... That would have been useful, in that something could have been done. Complaining now can't help much...

 

Also note:

- Training in invasions is frowned upon (i.e. radu doesn't like it at all) so you are not supposed to go to an invasion to 'get xp'

 

And indeed, why go there with an alt instead of leaving it to the real newbies?

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I didn't jump in on the invasion last night until it got to Lions/Cycs/DCW/Sselssar, so I'm not sure how much of a problem it was with higher level chars going after the low level stuff -- I wasn't there.

 

With that said, regarding no #help_me request coming in -- if I had seen a high level slaughtering the low level stuff, I don't think I would have sent a mod request. As an uncapped invasion, it wouldn't be against the rules, and I don't really want to whine to mods every time somebody does something that is just kind of not very nice.... (If I did that, I'd spend half my day reporting people :)

 

I really do like invasions like the one last night (ty Ace and Lucaa for throwing it) -- I wish more like it would have happened when I was smaller... It's very good to see some of the smaller/less combat-oriented players get to go play in an invasion.

 

Perhaps, as a compromise, such an invasion could be done 'high-capped' -- that is, set caps on each wave/map, but make them significantly higher than one might consider necessary. The cap could be raised/removed if there's a real problem clearing it (ty radu for adding that command), but I imagine it wouldn't be a problem, and it would let people of the right range have their fun longer, without the big-big's just slaughtering everything to add to their counters, or get to 'their' part of the invasion quicker.

 

Z

 

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Always going to be an issue of higher levels attacking low level mobs in invasions if uncapped. The issue is players having the self control to leave them to the newbies, which sadly not everybody has. gradual wave invasions will always have this issue as people will wait for the higher levels and to be able to plunge into to first set of the more interesting mobs. But this is quite unavoidable as a lot of people play on alts, and when i last saw, about half or more of those killing lower level capped invasions were alts as well, because (at least when i was last truely active) we had a very low count of actually newbies to fight these.

 

This is more of a social/player issue than inbuilt game one, and i dont know what the soloution is.

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Another problem with capped is that "higher level" noobs (such as myself) can't handle the type of critters that are spawned during the usual higher level invasions. Nothing fun about that. The only way for the casual combat fighter to get any fun at all is to be able to participate in a "lower level" uncapped invasion.

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I agree with Aislinn. For some people, fighting lower levels in uncapped invasion is a great training tool for those new to invasions. Takes away the scare factor and lets them practice fleeing/escaping with whatever they desire. I don't see anything wrong here.

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I can honestly say I did not go to invasion until it chims and above.... yes it was a blast. I think the topic is more about the 120+ players killing rabbits, boars ect stuff clearly meant for low level players, they go in look at the mob and it dies. I don't see how they find fun in that nor do I see how that teaches anyone how to flee, escape or whatever. I think that is plain out selfish and disrespectful to the up and coming players. I do agree with what Aislinn said but I cant think of a 120+ player who couldn't have waited until the invasion moved to C2 where iirc it started with lions or a bit lower. Yes I know as one of them clearly stated last night its an easy way to get low level achievement. Sure it is but why do it at the expense of the low level players. Trust me it was a long wait.. about 4-5 hours for me and well worth every minute.. Ace Rocks!!!

Edited by CherUT

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That's exactly why I suggest some very high cap on waves in an invasion like this. Say, 115-capped Cyclops, 130-capped DCW (I'm too far removed from lower level stuff to make a proper estimate anymore, but you get the picture). It would allow non-combat builds to come out and comfortably fight and have fun, but would disallow _far_ higher levels from coming in and just slaughtering whatever they want, as full uncapped does.

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I agree, CherUT, I don't mean 120s fighting rabbits in invasion, I was objecting to "capped" in general because even at capped, I can't handle what is dished out for a 120s and above character. My comfort level, when surrounded by hundreds of red-named creatures that will auto attack me no matter what, is not going to be above a frost troll and even that is pushing it when they are auto-attacking and I'm surrounded. I'd prefer feros to chims. And those are capped to way below my a/d.

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It is my understanding (and please correct me if I'm wrong), but creatures do not have a 'natural' cap level, do they? That is, when the mod creates an invasion wave, he/she can set the cap to whatever he/she likes, and is not stuck between 'uncapped' and some set value? i.e. when Radu runs a 120-cap in SKF, there are certain creatures he typically includes, of course, but he could just as easily do 120-capped rabbits or 120-capped dragons, correct?

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It is my understanding (and please correct me if I'm wrong), but creatures do not have a 'natural' cap level, do they? That is, when the mod creates an invasion wave, he/she can set the cap to whatever he/she likes, and is not stuck between 'uncapped' and some set value? i.e. when Radu runs a 120-cap in SKF, there are certain creatures he typically includes, of course, but he could just as easily do 120-capped rabbits or 120-capped dragons, correct?

 

Correct. But he doesn't. :P Any invasion I'd want to go to is either capped at 80 or 100, or if I can go, it's just too hard.

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Most of newbies are alts - pretty obvious when they are below A/D 20/20, have antisocial perk and turned on privacy. I think some just do want to acknowledge how many alts in game.

 

I think A/D caps in general are silly - they are not appropriate when you have characters (often multiple alts) who do nothing but fight with 30+ pick points in negative perks, hydro bar pick points plus store bought special equipment such as thermals, special armor, etc. Some of them can wipe out creatures many levels above their own. A/D is not the dominating factor here. Perhaps another mechanism can be created for caps like combat level but in counts other factors as well but I doubt any will be perfect but certainly better than A/D.

 

Perhaps in future invasion monsters can have two numbers - hard cap for which you can not initiate combat and another cap number where creatures will ignore character with specified cap preventing player from automatically being attacked meaning players would need to chase creatures and would not get multiple attackers.

 

In meantime high caps as Zilding suggested (and as suggested in Channel 6 many times) are best solution as well as allowing summons to be used by overcaps as well since there are not many opportunities to use summoning in game other than summoning stone grinding.

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i like saxums suggestion. You could do a hard cap that gradually rises after a certain time, so that low level have the oppurtunity to find them, and start on them, then allowing the casual fighter, and then if they cant take them, in case there is a mixture of mobs that makes it too tough for the target cap, it will gradually rise to a level where you they are cleared but give the oppurtunity to the lower levels properly. If it was implemented with an adjustable time between the caps changing, then you could make it rise with the invasions mobs. The programming of this probably isnt that attractive, but just an idea.

 

summoning by over caps should be restricted to just when a low level player asks for it... there was no fun when these capped invasion were new, and by the time i found the reminents of a cap invasion, it had been cleared by people using WT stones while over cap. If you allow that summoning unconditionally, it removes the point of even having a cap.

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Next time I do one of these wave invasions, I will probably just use Zilding's idea. It seems most effective with what we currently have to use.

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I was not suggesting being able to use summoning stones. Previously Acelon had invasion which allowed magic and summoning and summoning is what I wanted to add especially if mobs ignore summoners. Kill w/summon, pick up parts and use meat/bones to summon further. An invasion in which you can just can use summoning stones becomes invasion for those with most GCs. It is easy enough to define rules to disallow creatures which can be summoned from stones (large spiders, white tigers, bears, etc). Ironically in invasions now I carry emergency big creature stones so when I am overloaded by creatures which will cost me rostogol stone I use summoning stone instead,

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A highish cap for waved only invasions seems the best option, but it probably should have lower limit set to prevent this kind of abuse and give newbies some fun and incentive to strive. Something similar like the levels set for invances eg. 0-30, 30-50, 50-80, 80-100, 100-130 and lastly uncapped (don't scream at the figures, its merely to give a general idea). Atm moment I'm a/d 88/90 but as recently reset only 67 OA. At the time of the invasion Ace held (which was great fun) my OA was quite a few levels lower and I could not handle anything over the clops. All these kind of factors need to be considered too, but as it was a wave invasion at least I could go and have some fun.

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