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Possible Invance Rehab?

Possible Invance Rehab?  

94 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the bonus experience be removed from invances?

    • Yes, and allow players to wear whatever they want and participate as much as they want.
      37
    • Yes, but keep the required gear rules AND participation rules.
      9
    • No, leave invances as they are now.
      47
  2. 2. If the bonus experience is removed, should there be an additional bonus per hit?

    • Yes, 1.25 times current normal experience.
      6
    • Yes, 1.5 times current normal experience.
      5
    • Yes, 2 times current normal experience.
      22
    • No, leave the critter per hit experience as it is now.
      25
    • Does not apply as I voted to leave invances as they are now in question 1.
      35
  3. 3. Should gatekeeper get an automatic bonus? (method to be determined)

    • Yes, as long as only one person per invance does the job and can get the bonus. Otherwise it will be abused.
      33
    • No, gatekeeper just stands or sits there and doesn't do much.
      20
    • Yes, with no restrictions on how many people can be gatekeeper in any given invance.
      7
    • Does not apply as I voted to leave invances as they are now in question 1.
      33


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I think the Bonus at the end should be removed but I think the Invance should be like Sun Tzu day and the gate keeper does just as much as everyone else sometimes nobody wants to do it cause they want to fight so a bonus for the gatekeeper would be a must imo. =) and keep the gear rule.

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Again at SunriseCoder: I didn't say at all I don't like splitting the 120+. I simply said you made that split into too many groups. And you said banned, not invance banned. Also you said I could remove the experience from a range. I can't do that, no idea where you got that idea.

 

So the people who wouldn't go anymore because they won't get a jumbo bonus at the end...may I ask what you do in the invance that would prevent you from getting a bonus per hit (or as I was informed privately, also possibly per dodge as well should be considered)? And why that isn't good enough? If your loss-risk could be minimized by no rules dictating what you wear/bring/do, where is the downside?

 

Removing something that many people enjoy as is? Problems doubled :P

 

Thing is, many don't :P Daily problems now and it gets old on both sides of the fence.

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What about this: condition the rewarding exp on a limit of hits you need to make, or a total damage. Let's say lvl * 20 successful hits or lvl*100 total dmg(should work for both range or sword). You get the requirement or you get no exp in the end. Also remove the low hp monsters that die in 1-2 hits and the need of a gate keeper. No more requirements for gear, number of arrows or any moderation at all.

I could go for something like this as well. What I'm aiming for is a way to let everyone go as they choose to go, participate in a way that is fun for them. That is different for everyone, clearly. The extra bonus benefit at the end however, should be given to those who deserve it and put in the risk and work, not those who lurk in the shadows or afk or toss a spell from safe distance.

 

I'm looking for a solution that:

Stops the snitching/bickering/backstabbing

Stops the daily gear inspections and arguments

Lets people go who aren't that good/comfortable with fighting and hang back but want some of the action on their own terms

Lets people go who don't want to invest pp's where they don't want to invest them

Let's people go who don't have the gc to gear up according to the current rules

Doesn't make the usual heavy-hitters resentful they do all the work, put up the pricey gear and ammo, while they watch others afk or make excuses why they aren't risking much.

Fairly distributes a bonus that is work/risk based.

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may I ask what you do in the invance that would prevent you from getting a bonus per hit

160-170 a/d players, who killing mobs, which I could fight and leave just the dragons.

I'd also would suggest remove rule, which don't let us to flee for renew exp if you remove bonus reward.

Because somebody caused it as "Invance is for killing mobs, not for training. You get reward at the end".

 

Btw, try to gather statistic of how many natural exp players got from invances. All players. And how many gc profit do they get.

Try to compare how fun is it for 120s and for 170s. You'll see the difference.

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Never agreed with the general idea of invance but from my point of view this is what is should look like:

  • No exp bonus
  • More boss monsters (stimulate teamwork)
  • More and better rare drops
  • No gate keeper required. Maybe add a NPC the group has to protect? Add a actual gate with xxxx HP that can be attacked by monsters etc?
  • Make it more rare with diffrent monsters spawn. Currently people just camp specific spots (hawks by glacmore flag, chims behind fort? yeti west of fort etc etc)
  • Make some areas PK? We don't want the drama to end now do we? ^^
  • Reduce the waiting time (remove it all for cost**). **Radu remember that talk we had about "shop credits?"
Problem with invance at the moment is, it's to predictable. People have invances down as if there were a guide. Invaces at the moment is just free exp for dummies.

 

Cya nerd

 

Pretty much sums up what i think about the matter +1 Edited by Kricket

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I voted to leave invances as they are.

 

I am not against changing the level ranges or even making them variable. I am usually in the 100-120 range and we sometimes have trouble in that range getting enough players to have an invance anyway.

 

Also, I am agianst changing the bonus to "exp per hit" based because I usually attend as a summoner. Most of the time I am using tank rabbits to help soak damage for the fighters / rangers. Other times I use hawks and LBD stones to help stop a gate rush. I never directly damage any critters unless I get jumpped. I would perfer to receive extra summoning exp for what I do in invances, but at least the final bonus is an insentive to go. Without that bonus I would just stop going.

 

-------------------------------

Ingame name JRats

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I totally agree with SunriseCoder, EL will become even less playable without the exp from invances, there will be no point doing them just for "farming", because for me, there's no fun doing this. I only go to invances to get the exp reward. Also, i only play this game because of invances/instances, and because instances were buried alive due to some bad changes that occured some time ago, i only spend countless hours training just to go for better invances, but without exp reward, there will be nothing else to do in Eternal Lands at all. Without the exp reward from invances, i'll do the same as my whole guild and many other friends have already done: stop playing EL, because i have many other games to have fun with, and EL does provide some fun, but if those changes become true, it will be the end of 8 years of playing and having lots of fun with all those friends and allies. That's my point of view, and i'm saying it to explain what i'm feeling, that's all.

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I would like to see A/D caps fixed, personally. They are designed around full-on fighters only. If your build isn't mostly for combat, A/D level caps are a joke, by the time you can actually kill the critters in question, you are over cap and way too small for the next cap (caps are far too 'wide' too). Combat ability is NOT simply A/D, so using A/D for caps is a bit unfair. I have recently been adjusting my setup and buying gear so I can play in this stuff, but not everyone wants to spend nexus and attributes just to be a perfect fighter so they can fight within A/D caps. Perhaps use a combat-level type formula instead?

 

Z

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What rangers (for who it's mandatory to shoot 300 PK (or 200 with ER perk)) think about idea to remove bonus and make double a/d exp only?
I'm just curious, is there any active invance ranger who want to do that?

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What rangers (for who it's mandatory to shoot 300 PK (or 200 with ER perk)) think about idea to remove bonus and make double a/d exp only?

I'm just curious, is there any active invance ranger who want to do that?

So what would you think of the idea if ranging exp was increased? Instead of yelling at everyone, how about think about the reasoning going on for this thread and offer an idea how to fix the issues.

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My takeaway so far:

 

Unless the remove-bonus-exp votes shoot up, it will remain status quo. It's 50/50 now.

 

It seems to be 50/50 on whether to allow any gear at all, or whether to make item-specific requirement lists. The dividing factor seems to be whether people go to an invance to enjoy themselves or because it's only for the experience and could easily be replaced with eating Brussel Sprouts if it gave the same exp. I guess my question is, which group should determine this?

 

Making a new range of 120-140 seems well-wanted.

 

I also saw a suggestion of making the 40-60 no drop that seemed well-liked.

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I think part of the stickler is the armor issue. How about an Invance token instead of amber. Radu can sell them in the shop, plus drops during an invance. With this, you can wear any type of armor you want, you paid for it. Iron pot and a smile, fine. This will replace his losses on rosto sales.

Edited by Aquila

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how about think about the reasoning going on for this thread and offer an idea how to fix the issues.

1. I made offers, they are partially agreed, partially disagreed.

2. I trying to make you look 2-3 steps further, for we don't need such topic in few weeks again for think how to fix our improvement (in best case) or how to get people back to EL (in worst case).

 

About increase ranging exp - well, how much could you increase it? Don't forget, people using PK arrows, not training.

So I think, it should be increased about 10x times at least for make people motivated to invest money in it.

Why 10x times? Easy: Arena on Ordinary Day: for people w/o rationality, it's like 1 exp per gc. If you do it twice (on Robit Tell) - it's 2 exp per gc.

Now about PK arrows. For get same as 2 exp per gc, you need to make it up to 70 exp per shoot (so it's already 7x times) + some motivation vs Arena, where you can get 10k training and go autocliking.

For this exp even I probably could be interested to get 100 PK arrows with me every invance, but I'm not sure yet.

Now the question is are YOU ready for make such boost?

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Btw, why we can't see who voted for what option? I remember, in other voting we can see who votes for what, but here it looks like somebody tries to hide it.

For example, like here: http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=59021 - you can click on View and see who voted

Why?

 

 

There was a forum update and it might have gotten caught in the shuffle or something that needs turned on.

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There's a number of problems that would be nice to solve with a rehab.

 

Release mods from having to be playground monitors

* Remove all gear requirements (armor, weapons)

* Remove all ranging requirements (box, arrow count)

* Remove participation requirements (sit on your butt, no one cares)

 

People just want to have fun

* Remove all above requirements

* Remove gatekeeper - put a gate/grate over the entrance you click on (like in Melinis) to keep the monsters out and the fort safe for re-entering

* Invances are time-limit only (monsters can no longer enter fort)

 

Provide skill-appropriate experience bonus based on active participation

* A/D experience based on participation (not effectiveness), so a multiplier based on the number of times you hit or were hit up to a max of the current bonus.

* Ranging experience based on the number of arrow hits up to some max that is similar to the a/d max.

* Magic experience based on the number of "useful" spells cast (harm, poison, remote heal, heal summon, etc) up to some max that is similar to the a/d max.

 

 

Removing the requirements frees up the mods and allows anyone to participate in a way and investment they are comfortable with.

 

Changing the bonus formula allows those who participate, and use better gear, to gain more experience that those who don't. Using better armor/weapons means you die less (you don't get exp waking back to the invance). Using better bows/arrows means you hit more (you don't get exp for missing). And of course better gear means you have better odds of finishing the invance (no exp if you don't finish).

 

Skill-appropriate experience means more people will want to play because they can get experience in the skill they are interested in, which may NOT be a/d.

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Btw, why we can't see who voted for what option? I remember, in other voting we can see who votes for what, but here it looks like somebody tries to hide it.

For example, like here: http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=59021 - you can click on View and see who voted

Why?

Because the person that made that poll chose the option that all people who placed a vote can see what everyone else voted. I made this poll and I did not choose that option.

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Note: I talk specifically about the 120-200 invance, since I am in that slot. And feel free to skip my personal

ranting :sneaky:

 

Never liked the guaranteed bonus xp coming from invances much. It's like having an extra nice Haidir daily

(comparable to MC - refering to most popular 120-200 invance). I remember days when people cried out loud,

when they missed ONE invance per month -> "WTF, OMG I missed my bonus xp." So for obvious reasons,

I voted 1,4 and 2.

 

[personal ranting]

It made it much more easier for people to climb to the top. Why train for hours on spawn when you just do

practically 2 Haidirs a day and use the gc from invance to finance Haidir passes. Back then yeti spawn in IRIN

was taken for days and people waited in turn to get their slice, nowadays you just go there and it's empty like

many training spawns even on suntzu days.

 

It was one of the main reasons I left earlier -> I was fed up with training endlessly and seeing people effortlessly

cruising by, because the invance tends to always happen in the same hours and not all people are online then.

[/personal ranting]

 

Now I throw in my 2 cents: Leave invance as it is with all its rules and let EL start it automatically at random

(once?/twice?) a RL day rather than having a real person starting it. I am totally aware that many of those invances

won't be beaten/attended at all by the players, since not enough (strong) people are online. But who says that it

HAS to beaten all the time with ease? That way it won't be just another daily Haidir as people expect and it

brings some thrill/risk back. Break the daily routine to which too many players are already used to too much.

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As someone who did a few Invasions and stopped doing them for these days (I will start again after i get my next att or def level and am at a/d 141 then).

 

I do invasions, because of the fun, because there people are a loose team, but still a team some more together others less and because i get the xp in the end.

I do not do them right now because i do not want the XP and without the XP i have the instances, that are for me as fun as the invances, but with stronger teamwork.

 

I will not vote on the invances I voted to keep everything as it is, mainly because i think there should be some changes to it, but non of the suggested.

  • I think once entered you should not be able (edit:) reenter the map if you left at all, if you click on houses or structures except the ones inside the fort, you should be teleported back inside the fort. Give the fort an Exit, and tele to portal as exit, for people who want out.(end Edit)
  • At the statue of the Fort there should be a Storage NPC for restocking.
  • If you die you should spawn in the middle of the fort (regardless if person has rosto or not) and get a time penality, that does not allow you to move for a X second periode. (lets say 30). That should make the risk of loosing a bag if you do not have a rosto still possible, but lessen the I died and instance is over penality.
  • If you stay outside the fort for more then 30 seconds without any action tele person into Fort.
  • After a y periode of time a person inside the fort (not counting the walls) a person should be teleported out of the invance.
  • All GC monsters would drop should be collected by the server and in the end distributed equally to all player. special drops, scales, bones, etc should still drop in bags. (alternative monsters should not drop anything in invances we have the XP bonus after all).
I think these suggestions would lessen the work of the moderators in invances, make it necessary for people to be more active in it, and so help it to be more fun Edited by vinoveritas

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I wish at first there was a discussion about this without a poll. So far i voted to leave it as it is but i actually voted against the alternative, not against making some changes. Later this poll might be use to show that we don't want to make any changes to the invance and that might not be so true.

 

Seems to me that many ppl forget about the rangers that now will get nothing by participating(and they are not few). And those who think everybody gets good gc out of it are so so wrong. Rangers spend more gc on arrows 90% of the time. And don't forget the rostos lost. Last time an icy took a bite on me made over 100 dmg.

 

Also some don't know that not everybody can jump in the middle of yetties, naspas and giants and fight. It's not about taking chances, it's pure suicide. So until some strong players clean the map a bit others have nothing to do(except maybe range, but why would you spend arrows without getting anything?). You also make it pointless for summoners, magicians and anyone that wants to help in some other way than engage in fight.

 

And it seems to me that some people forget you have invasions and instances to farm and get drops. Invance was about getting some experience in a more fun way compared with spending hours on a spawn.

 

So i am voting to not exclude myself out of it. I would like to vote something that makes it more fun and more profitable for me also, like some lower lvl monsters that i can deal with(not hawks) and better drops, but there is no option like that.

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I'm on hiatus from invances or anything that I can't easily control myself with due to hand issues that affect my reflexes.

But from my experiences, and with the intent to restart them later, voting to keep as-is on the asked options for several of the mentioned reasons, particularly:

 

- Change would likely scare off the rangers. I fought until only dragons and higher were left, then ranged. The ranging part was little experience and little gc gain if any. That final exp was pretty much the only benefit of going at all. Excitement and fun factor only goes so far when it's costing gc, and I did brick out at least once per invance more often than not.

 

- The 120-140 a/d-ers are pretty much screwed with the proposed changes and honestly, as one of those I can't see myself returning to invances if these changes were made.

 

 

 

Suggestions I'd go with (and ones I've thought of):

 

- Split to 120-140 and 140+, for reasons already given

 

- Possibility to code in minimum gear requirements, and NPC won't let you in without wearing that? (I can see difficulty in this, but once done it's done.) Wouldn't remove mod need completely, but would make it easier on mods as if someone's wearing too low gear they had to intentionally change once already in, removing the "I didn't know" option. Mod confirms they switched to lower gear, not much talk needed, have a set fast rule for what happens in that situation.

 

Personally don't like the min gear reqs on a more general level, though enforced them when needed since it was official rules. (But then I never liked the thought of anything that's there solely for rosto killing. I'd personally wear good gear without the rule for it simply because I wouldn't be able to do crap without it.)

 

Come to think of it, this option wouldn't affect the brick issue, since they'd still have to have the gear in inventory and still possibly drop it.

 

 

- Agree with Raistlin about the whole "handing exp to people on a silver platter" scenario, both in how it's affected game play in general with training, and in how it tends to be limited to certain time frames, both due to requests and whether or not one of the small handful of people that can start invances are online.

 

A reduction in how often it's done, and setting it up to automatically start in a more random manner rather than on the whim of the players is something I always thought was better. If there's not enough to do it, oh well, next group then. But it would make things more fair and possible for those in the "outside of norm" times, and those who want that bonus experience and participate will have to drop what they're doing (20 minutes to do that and get ready) rather than be ready in advance and ask for silver-platter-handing experience.

How many are in an invance chat doesn't necessarily mean how many can invance due to afk-ers, but the randomizing could be weighted based on enough people in a specific chat in some way. Those hoping to see an invance would help weight the chance of getting one by going into the appropriate channel, though not guaranteeing one.

Edited by Burn

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I wish at first there was a discussion about this without a poll. So far i voted to leave it as it is but i actually voted against the alternative, not against making some changes. Later this poll might be use to show that we don't want to make any changes to the invance and that might not be so true.

The poll was to address a very specific issue regarding invances that wasn't meant to include every possible thing a person might want changed about invances. I'm well aware that there are other things that people have opinions about. Regarding those, some radu does not want to change and some we'll discuss. This poll does not exclude consideration of other issues but those are separate.

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