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Orick

When you were a nub

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Hey all, there has been a lot of random chat about ideas on trying to get more NEW people interested in the game... So my question to you is what sparked the interest of EL for you? And what things do you think could be different to help new players get involved and stay involved in the game? PLEASE DO NOT MAKE THIS ABOUT HOW OTHERS IDEAS WON'T WORK, please just let people know what you think

 

 

Update:

 

1. So far the biggest thing people have commented on is how new players are treated, this is something that as a member of the game we can all fix on our own

 

2. More events or things for the new players is also something that can be done in guild settings, another thing that we control as a member rather then the game maker

 

 

Edited by Orick

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To answer my own question...

 

When I started the only other games I had played were Warcraft 1&2 (not online) and Starcraft 1 (also not online)... What I liked about this game was the people interaction and the fact that there was more to the game then just building army's and fighting... I remember how exciting it was to mix essence that allowed me to make other items and how I had to explore and go different places to gather items to mix and at the same time I could also fight and do magic and there were a lot of new aspects to me that I have never played before... One thing I have noticed it the change of time is now there is very little reason to do anything other the train for fights, all if the prices of Essenes, armor, weps and just about anything made it where back then it was worth it to get the lvls and make the stuff yourself where now everything can be bought from the NPCs faster and easyer then can be mixed... I think that a change of NPC price might help lower lvl players stay interested in the game, also I have been a fan of the mini events for a long time now (and I'm %100 not joking about that) but maybe it would be less frustrating for low end players if they were able to do afk harvesting again to help them build up supply while allowing them to not have to focus so much on %100 paying attention to the screen. Now I'm not saying get rid of mini events but maybe have mini evens start at lvl 30 of harvesting or something like that, maybe add in there that your food lvl has to be above 0...

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I found EL in late 2007 on happypenguin.org

 

I think more active people at the beam will help new players stay. It was one of the reasons I stayed till 2008. More frequent newbie contests will help as well.

 

Some political correctness like calling new players "new players" instead of newb or nub makes them feel more welcome too.

Edited by hussam

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i think if we can get a ipad/tablet client, we will get a large influx of players.

domino is doing great work so far getting us current players a basic andriod client.

 

the reason i stayed with EL is the skill system and community.

i hate restrictions like armor lvls and not a big fan of classes.

 

the community is great here and thats why i stay.

 

i think IP storage should be open to all so alot of players are in IP and new players can get instant help and see alot of people playing.

Edited by Stronze

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When i was a newb *rocks in rocking chair*.....

The way i found EL was actually through the Blender site. It was listed as a game that had used blender to do the modeling. EL was my first MMO, I mostly played FPS games and such (still do) but since i have tried many other MMO's but keep coming back to EL due to it's open class system and the community. I hate in other games having to create diff. characters to do different things.

 

That said one of the things that kind of interested me in EL when i clicked that link on blender was the idea that people were working together to create a game, and that it wasn't done by some big company but individuals. Now i know this isn't how everyone comes at this game but i really think expanding the art and engine department to better let those interested what needs doing. Make a project page with things like: we would like to redo the castle wall models or we need more monster models made, or we need people to review x code to see if we can make it better. I realize this could open the flood gates on random and low quality stuff being submitted, but with positive critiquing and someone managing it good quality content gets added to the game faster and keeps the game fresh and new ever expanding. The world grows the more people will buzz about it "hey i made this come check it out in the game i play". EL somewhat feel stagnate atm as for awhile a rush of new content was coming online and players were trying to keep up with the changes and now it's slowed.

 

I realize some of this is done already mostly on the programming side but i think a large group of artists are out in cyber world looking for stuff like this to do and it benefits both the current player base and draws new people in with the new content.

 

Subpoints:

1. I know the graphics engine is getting a major overhaul atm so that might be part of the reason why some content is slow in coming out atm. And i know that as a community we voted awhile back to go through and update the current models and continents rather then expand other things.

2. you say but Elf_Ninja you can always make stuff and submit it and it could be put in game go ahead! Yes i could but i have crazy amounts of ideas, but i also don't want to spend time changing my crazy el creature sketches like: Imp Chieftain and Mage into models if they aren't wanted or needed. I would rather know what is needed and start there.

Edited by Maxine

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Needs to be done imho to attract more players:

 

1. Marketing, some advertising

2. Hide bots from outsides , some maps look like shit and scary with all these bots

3. Do not allow character market

4. Make quests easier for new people, not all have the patience to explore maps, with low perception to find an npc

5. Give more free things to newbies but items that cannot be sold and that would be erased from their inventory after 1 month time

6. If someone logs daily (up to lvl oa 50) gets something fr33 from npc (like exp bonus for a skill or low price item but a chance to get something good)

7. make dialogues with npc appear at console not only a window and if u have already spoken with npc hide the already told dialogue

8. Less guilds

9. Reduce item prices from shop

 

These are IMHO things that need to be changed

Edited by Sithis

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Needs to be done imho to attract more players:

 

1. Marketing, some advertising

2. Hide bots from outsides , some maps look like shit and scary with all these bots

3. Do not allow character market

4. Make quests easier for new people, not all have the patience to explore maps, with low perception to find an npc

5. Give more free things to newbies but items that cannot be sold and that would be erased from their inventory after 1 month time

6. If someone logs daily (up to lvl oa 50) gets something fr33 from npc (like exp bonus for a skill or low price item but a chance to get something good)

7. make dialogues with npc appear at console not only a window and if u have already spoken with npc hide the already told dialogue

8. Less guilds

9. Reduce item prices from shop

 

These are IMHO things that need to be changed

 

ad 2) From outside? What purpose does that serve?

ad 3) Definitely yes

ad 4) I've the 2nd lowest perception possible. Finding stuff or NPCs is not an issue. Quests in general are not too difficult. Just, there could be more :-) Also like small discoveries like a few gc, a BR or SR or similar in chests, drawers, ... that would be fun and give more incentive to try stuff.

ad 5) Not sure that's needed. But there's little going on which targets newbies. 120+ invances and instances... The situation improved and improves with the new newbie quests.

ad 6) maybe

ad 7) why? what's the purpose? what if I want to re-visit the dialogue?

ad 8) why?

ad 9) That would make any mixing skill even less attractive. It rather needs prices on NPCs such that the NPCs would make a profit or at least no big loss if they bought the ingredients from other NPCs for the stuff they sell. That would allow for a more robust economy.

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What kept me ingame at the beginning might have actually been my sucky computer and internet connection that I wasn't really able to play anything else... Well I also liked the classles system and easygoing feeling in the game too. Also the interaction between people was amazing, it was never boring because there was always some drama going on :P Nowadays there isn't even much PK so it's more like watching some boring drama show, where everything is fine and everyone are friends.

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Miiks, there is no PK because 1) everyone is busy leveling up to stay in competition 2) people would rather complain pk is dead than actually pk.

 

Needs to be done imho to attract more players:

 

1. Marketing, some advertising

8. Less guilds

9. Reduce item prices from shop

 

These are IMHO things that need to be changed

1) I always advertise for EL. but most people expect the graphics to be a bit better or similar to other games they play.

8) less guild? yes definitely. the requirements for creating a guild need to be increased. not every new-ish or semi experienced player should be able to create a guild. I would rather see more experienced guilds training new players even creating "junior guilds" for them.

9) NPC prices should remain static. Decreasing them might cause drama and increasing them is harmful to the economy because it causes more inflation. We already have cheap armor sold from NPC like iron chains.

Edited by hussam

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Miiks, there is no PK because 1) everyone is busy leveling up to stay in competition 2) people would rather complain pk is dead than actually pk.

 

I could write an essay about problems in PK, but since this thread isn't made for PK suggestions, I won't do that.

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I agree with Miiks, but I have to add that the rewards (leather armor and an iron sword) I got from the tutorial NPC kept me going, too.

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The thing that helped me the most when i started this game was NOT knowing the vastness of the game and options. I had a simple goal... not getting killed by rabbits, surviving the first gargoyles, learn to cast some spells. Today i see newbies, o correction: New players walking around after their 7th day.... saying they are collecting gc for a nmt and dragon armor. Or worse are working to get H-Bars for their nexusses. IMHO peoples should not be bothered with nmt's dragon armor or H-bar nexuses the first few month (years). So i guess the point i am trying to make is:

 

Compliment a new player on his achievements like: getting a iron greaves as his most precious item. In stead of telling him it's shit and needs rd greaves at least!

 

A thing i notice on other games is that they minimize interaction between high levels and low levels by giving them different maps to be in. This can give a starting player the idea he's advanced while still a beginner... and when moved up be the beginner again. And when peoples are actually looking up interaction between high and low they are more aware of the difference.

 

I think most here are depending on human interaction in this game to keep their game going. And it just aint fun to hear your 'noob' and to get rid of that have atleast 1 year of HARD work ahead of you when you begin. That first year you should get positive acceptance too.

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Came home from school, saw my dad running away from Bob the Gob in Portland xD

So I asked if I could play, and made a character, before started to run about Whitestone and Isla Prima killing/being killed be anything I saw. Was good fun.

 

Generally walking around, saying 'hi' and sparking up random conversation with people in local, and just generally help given by people when i started off.

 

That's how I started, and why I kept going. Then I left for a couple years for a reason I forgot :rolleyes:

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I just joined EL via my dad (in fact i only chose my name, not even my race or look) and ended up just roaming IP and WS. My favourite memory was fighting a deer naked with a bone when at level 8 while on a/d pots with 3 medium (or high levels from my point of view) player watching me eventually kill the deer only on minor heal pots, with 7 hp to go. Thats what kept me, along with the community (mostly the now practically extinct MaGE guild, mostly Love42). I also stayed, just wanting to hit manu level to make fur clothes when they were new :)

 

But anyway, newbies are quitting for a S***load of reasons, which i have outlined below.

 

From the newbies (those i met on 4060 channel and on IP) i have a few reasons why people quit:

People who quit in first hour to day:

  • not knowing controls or not being properly engaged with other players or action in the opening minutes. The initial experience is "boring". So why not make an opening that engaging, like RuneScape.
  • At the start, their only experience of community is channel 1, not like when most of us started, where people were at beam.Why not give benifits to those who spend some time at beam, helping, advising, chatting and healing newbies?

And those from 4060:

  • Scams/Lures/etc. Last year i saw a whole guild/family quit due to this and many more. Why not up the non scam limit to level 60, due to haidirs etc, newbies level too quickly for the 20 cap to be at all effective. Or why not just ban scamming altogether, and go the way of all other successful MMOs.
  • Lack of content for lower levels. We have invance at level 40, which is continually less frequent, and before that, nothing to engage the lower levels interest. Why not add a lower level Exclusive, challenge, which draws on several different players of under 40/50/60 level cap.
  • Over Powered Invasions for our caps. Admittedly, all part radus NC invasion for under 40s was well done. But apart from the first Selain Invasion and Maxines Invasions, i haven't really seen a well balanced Invasion that rich people or special builds can complete in the <60 range. Why not ask what ranges are capable of? Maxine did that and it was one of the best invasions are caps got? Making alts in range is all well and good, but you have knowledge and skill which the real newbies don't.
  • A Feeling that the game is based around the top caps and character buyers. I have met a few people who wonder why lower levels dont seem to be considered as important as top cappers. And i know this will annoy people, but its the truth. There are some Mods who try very hard to keep things balanced, and to encourage newbies. Why not give newbies as varied and entertaining selection of pass times as high levels?
  • Being degraded by high levels. If we don't the tactics for tanking, ranging or any such tactics and try to help people, we get ridiculed for it, and then we see the community in a bad light. TREAT NEWBIES NICELY! Some do, but more need to allow for innocent lack of knowledge.
  • PK. We're not allowed to enter PK effectively, unless we get to know the high levels or go do it in a guildmap. Too many people have the opinion newbies should stay out of PK, and anybody who wants to try PK is screwed over, and probably not going to do it when they hit a high level. Why not implement a way where newbs cant be attacked by people 2x time their level. Its ridiculous, and screws you who complain about having 'No PK'. You killed it.
  • Rules. They dont agree with some rules, primarily multi play, and i have no idea of a fix :P
  • Earning GC. At low levels its an endless slog of harvestin and/or mixing for them to earn the gc to buy half decent kit. How will that attract new players? Make and easy way for newbies to initially make GC, but make it inadequate for higher levels.
  • Adult Language. We have alot of people using tonnes of swears, casual racism, sexism, homophobia and religious insults. You kill off the entire attraction for parents sharing the game with their children, and people offended by the language. Ban those who do any racism, etc. and establish a "curse" channel for being the only area for cursing.
  • Feeling that the admins only really concerned in keeping high levels. Yeah, this tends to come in when there is no action after a high level scammed a newbie for something thats alot for the newbie, but nothing to the scammer. Also happens with the other reasons. If you fix most of the other issues outlined, then this will disolve. Sorry if it hurts the mods feeling, since it isnt actually your fault, its just what they tend to complain about when no action is taken.
  • Game feel unbalanced. good weapons are cheaper than bad weapons, NPC prices dont stay in line with ings prices.... It generally gives some people the feeling of a half baked cake, especially alongside quite alot of other MMOs. Why not balance the game, or at least the really obvious stuff.

These are all issues ive seen people quit for. quite alot are easily ammedable, either by players or by developers. I know some of you will say people haven't quit on these reasons, but you'll be wrong. Easily scamming is the biggest reason for people quitting, and thats tied with the lack of anything interesting to do as a newbie.

 

I also recognise that their are people in the community who go out of the way to help those, and do some of the fixes i outlined, . and i am happy with those who help make the area more newbie friendly. But the part of the community that is less kind generally thrashes most of their efforts. The attitude of "well thats a lesson that you learned, your experience will make you wiser in the future" doesnt help them get over it.

 

Just hold us newbs in the same regards you would hold the high levels.

 

Zathras - cutting of high levels and low levels doesnt always work. Basically, you should just encourage them, and tell them not to worry about high level stuff untill they're high levels. Its often funner having the low levels stuff, and gradually working up through the grades. I actually slightly regret getting RD armour at such a low level...their isnt anything really to aim for anymore. I was much happier when i had iron plate, mirror cape, CoL, MoL and SoP. That was my favourite stuff, and was the most entertaining way i played in my entire EL experience.

 

All the proppsed additions roja done for next client update look to make EL alot nicer looking, might get new players, if we have more supourt via gameplay.

 

Also EL should advertise more. Why not buy ad space in linux mags? Try and slip ads into Niche mags that might have a reader base that would fit in with the player base? So far i haven't really see any ads for EL anywhere. Can't expect an awful lot to come across us accidently, you need to actively pursue players.

Edited by JoeButler

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Scams/Lures/etc. Last year i saw a whole guild/family quit due to this and many more. Why not up the non scam limit to level 60, due to haidirs etc, newbies level too quickly for the 20 cap to be at all effective. Or why not just ban scamming altogether, and go the way of all other successful MMOs.

 

I am not sure what other MMOs do, but banning scamming is totally retarded. We are not kindergarten teachers.

 

Lack of content for lower levels. We have invance at level 40, which is continually less frequent, and before that, nothing to engage the lower levels interest. Why not add a lower level Exclusive, challenge, which draws on several different players of under 40/50/60 level cap.

 

So if people at those levels don't even take advantage of the invance, why do more things for them? So I waste my time for something that will be unused? Besides, there are tons of quests that can be done at those levels. And the daily quests take the level into account.

 

Over Powered Invasions for our caps. Admittedly, all part radus NC invasion for under 40s was well done. But apart from the first Selain Invasion and Maxines Invasions, i haven't really seen a well balanced Invasion that rich people or special builds can complete in the <60 range. Why not ask what ranges are capable of? Maxine did that and it was one of the best invasions are caps got? Making alts in range is all well and good, but you have knowledge and skill which the real newbies don't.

 

Did they ever ask for an invasion, and had a team, and I didn't do it?

 

A Feeling that the game is based around the top caps and character buyers. I have met a few people who wonder why lower levels dont seem to be considered as important as top cappers. And i know this will annoy people, but its the truth. There are some Mods who try very hard to keep things balanced, and to encourage newbies. Why not give newbies as varied and entertaining selection of pass times as high levels?

 

I don't get it. What entertainment do pros have access to that newbies don't? The only thing I can think of is instances, which most likely newbies won't do anyway (same a with them not doing invances).

 

Being degraded by high levels. If we don't the tactics for tanking, ranging or any such tactics and try to help people, we get ridiculed for it, and then we see the community in a bad light. TREAT NEWBIES NICELY! Some do, but more need to allow for innocent lack of knowledge.

 

When the fuck would a pro need a newbie to tank something?

 

PK. We're not allowed to enter PK effectively, unless we get to know the high levels or go do it in a guildmap. Too many people have the opinion newbies should stay out of PK, and anybody who wants to try PK is screwed over, and probably not going to do it when they hit a high level. Why not implement a way where newbs cant be attacked by people 2x time their level. Its ridiculous, and screws you who complain about having 'No PK'. You killed it.

 

There are plenty of capped, non drop arenas, so I don't understand your concern..

 

Earning GC. At low levels its an endless slog of harvestin and/or mixing for them to earn the gc to buy half decent kit. How will that attract new players? Make and easy way for newbies to initially make GC, but make it inadequate for higher levels.

 

Daily quests give a decent amount of gc even at newbie levels. Newbies nowadays have it much better than before.

 

Adult Language. We have alot of people using tonnes of swears, casual racism, sexism, homophobia and religious insults. You kill off the entire attraction for parents sharing the game with their children, and people offended by the language. Ban those who do any racism, etc. and establish a "curse" channel for being the only area for cursing.

 

Well, it sucks to be them. EL was never designed for children. Teenagers and older should be familiar with the curses, and there is a word filter that can be activated. As for casual racism, there are rules against it, and I dare you to show me constant occurrences of that. As for sexism, I have no idea what you are talking about, I don't remember ever seeing it.

 

Feeling that the admins only really concerned in keeping high levels. Yeah, this tends to come in when there is no action after a high level scammed a newbie for something thats alot for the newbie, but nothing to the scammer. Also happens with the other reasons. If you fix most of the other issues outlined, then this will disolve. Sorry if it hurts the mods feeling, since it isnt actually your fault, its just what they tend to complain about when no action is taken.

 

Are you on crack? If there are no rules for scamming, what would you expect the mods to do?

 

Also EL should advertise more. Why not buy ad space in linux mags? Try and slip ads into Niche mags that might have a reader base that would fit in with the player base? So far i haven't really see any ads for EL anywhere. Can't expect an awful lot to come across us accidently, you need to actively pursue players.

 

Why don't you put your money where your mouth is, buy more stuff from the store so that we can advertise more? And I am glad that you know how and where we advertise, and assume that I am an incompetent idiot who doesn't "actively pursue players".

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IMHO the fighting system is outdated if you compare it to other available MMORPGs.

 

So:

 

1. Total change to offensive magic, at least against monsters. Now a battle mage class doesn’t exists, at least it doesn’t pay up.

2. Total change to ranging costs vs monster killing. Only RD pays up, this must be changed.

3. Total change to melee fighting vs monsters, this one is boring … so boring that I felt asleep more than once while on spawn.

4. More daily (or even week, month) quests with exp reward (for example kill 1000 Feros, no matter where and how long, but exp reward will be great).

5. Marketing!

 

 

Points 1,2,3 are the reason why recently I only harv-afk in the game.

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I think that a lot of the problems that have been posted can be fixed by the community and not just by radu... YES some can't change by us but there are a few things here that will help me and others get more new players involved in the game

Edited by Orick

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I found EL in late 2007 on happypenguin.org

Poor happypenguin.org and the game tome are gone. :'(

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http://www.linuxformat.com/archives?issue=76 may have been how I found the game. That or LinuxJournal.

 

It seems there were a number of magazines back in 2005 with articles about Eternal Lands.

 

I notice Radu posted on a Raspberry Pi site about wanting to get the game there. I think that is a good move. SDL 2.0 comes out next month, so making EL SDL 2.0 based will let us get onto such systems easier. Raspberry Pi is a popular geek toy right now too.

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Anyway I remember there was some "old" player sitting at IP while I was a nawb and he was having some chat with me. It wasn't even really real advice to game, rather just general chit chat. It somehow made me a great impact that someone was actually talking to such a starter as me.I'm really sorry I don't remember who it was, he was still playing while I was playing more actively myself as a "more pro". Maybe someone from {FD} guild or something. Anyway he looked like a pro with his full iron set etc. :P

 

Personally I think we should communicate more with new players, even if you just talk to them, they feel like they're welcome in the game. It's not that easy to get into some mass game like WoW etc. In EL you are really able to feel you're welcome here if the more experienced players actually welcomed them.

Edited by Miiks

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To radu, and points are replied to in order (limit on number of quotes i can use :))

  1. Scamming loses players, and other MMOs obviously you think that it doesnt lose enough players to be worth the effort to enforce.
  2. The low level quest are rather dull, and not always in places that they'll travel to. The low level armour breaking questor srpings to mind.
  3. We never asked for invasion from you, since all the ones you did where OP in our opinion. If we know we cant take invasion, why bother.
  4. Nenoricit, lenny, pear hunting, treasure hunting, badaran, instancing. Yeah teams are all and well, but you dont actually do much. i was aiming more at something similiar to pear hunting/neno that low levels could have a go at, as entertainment in its own right, or as part of a learning curve.
  5. you seemed to have missed my point. You expect us to tank in our invasions, i try to, but not many know. Similiar, if we try to help out by shooting mob in invasion a pr0 is tanking, and dont know about forced flee, we're ridiculed. Wow, that'll leave a great impression on them.
  6. pr0 in BD armour, FA, OS and Rdholam vs newbie in augs. yeah, that REALLY fair.
  7. yes, its vaguely easier to gain gc, but you need to expend ten fold for all the new additions, or to be worth the tile you stand on.
  8. Well, you have children players, often from parents playing. And they're more likely to stick with the game they grew up playing than the one they try on whim when their in the range you want. As for casual racism, ive seen it go passed ignored or dismissed with a half hearted, dont do that. It shouldn't be tolerated in the slightest.
  9. Did you notice i said there was nothing you could do? oh, yes, i did. I posted this since i just thought of adding most of th reasons for quitters. As for being on crack, i have never experimented or taken illegal substances, unlike yourself.
  10. I didnt say you were imcompetent nor an idiot, nor have i ever said that. I didnt agree with you in some matters, and i put out some ideas.Godsake, its not like i went "EL is S***" without any explanation. As for spending more on EL, not everybody is rich/nolifer.

And i think some other people have posted some of my ideas, obviously not all, free standing and lacked such a reaction.

Edited by JoeButler

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If you want me to read and reply to what you said, please edit your post and use the quote tag so I can see what you responded to.

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When I was a newb this game was great. I started sometime in 2005-2006, and the game offered me endless possibilities, as well as a great community which always bothered to answer my questions. I spent countless hours on this game, I've read radu's blogs to see how this game used to be when it just started, I've made many friends here, as well as have countless adventures.

 

PK is what kept this game competitive. The NDD weekends were great, I remember training all week to get a level or two before the weekend, or stock up on essences and whatnot so I'll have enough. For me EL got bad when KF was made ND full time. It seemed like a great idea at start, I mean, having the map No Drop at all time and not just on weekends would've been in everyones favor, but it was quite the opposite. Since the map was ND at all time, weekends didn't bring me anything more than the same dullness that was during the week.

 

Why don't new players come? Its easy. Nobody is going to play something where the cap is unreachable, or to catch up to other players you need years of active playtime. It was good till a few years ago, since the playing field was even, nobody had over 130~ a/d. But now, a 100 a/d player has no chance against the mighty 160-170s ones. Also, the amount of new stuff that came into this game is quite overwhelming, even for a semi-active player. Ranging, AP pots, wards, mines, 200 hp harms, etc. are reasons why I don't play anymore so actively. The cost for PK is way too high, it was alright when you just needed a few pots and some essences, and the high end armor (titanium) cost like 200k max. But now its plain ridiculous.

 

Radu struggled all by himself to make this beautiful game. I've read his blog and all I can say is that I'm amazed by the time and effort he and Roja have put into this game. I can only have respect and graditude for such hard working people, and I'd like to thank them for this wonderful adventure they have unlocked for me. Like I said on other topics and ingame, I would gladly return to play (and bring quite a few friends along with me) if we had a new server, starting from scratch, with an older EL version, lets say 1.0.0, and work our way up from there. Who knows, maybe this time it'll turn even better. Or, I'm always open to see radu make a new game, too bad you quit the development of Barren Moon, I'm sure it'd have been something as amazing as EL.

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To radu, and points are replied to in order (limit on number of quotes i can use :)

 

Scamming loses players, and other MMOs obviously you think that it doesnt lose enough players to be worth the effort to enforce.

 

It also keeps pretty many players in game. I think one of the greatest things in EL is that it doesn't nanny players. In other games it's fucking annoying that you have to be "nice and polite" etc. Personally I love the possibility to be a criminal that everyone hates, even I don't use that possibilty myself, at least for now. If you get scammed, it's mostly your own stupidity. There's no point in forbidding in game scamming, since it's pretty essential part of the game.

 

What comes to RL money scamming, I don't accept that myself, but it's the risk people take when using black market. I got scammed myself when selling my ex-char I can't blame anyone else than myself from it.

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For a newbie its not stupidity, its those knowledgeable players taken advantage of those who are new. As for keeping many players... one scammer has killed a few guilds, one of which was a whole family who quit, several of my friends quit because of him and a few others i used to invance with. This was in the last few months, one guy. And all these points, i've seen people quit because of them, so dont kid yourself otherwise. All the old players have become oblivious of the issues of new players, no matter if they have alts in the lower levels or not. You have knowledge, they dont, you can avoid being screwed, they cant.

 

Radu - i have a limit on quotes i can use, as i said at top of post, and that was the error i got when quoting your post. Its in order, each point being a quote, in the order you posted it.

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