New Buffer Spells

[FrozenSolid]

So I know the "New Spells" thing has been addressed several times. But I would like to throw out this idea of Buffing Spells. Most of the spells we have, have been in the game for ever. Most of which are built around the outdated EL idea of mostly being solo. But with the addition of the invasions/instance/invance EL is changing becoming a more "team" based" game. And as such I think it would be great if the spells kept up with that chainging idea.

 

All of these spells can ONLY be cast on a team mate or other individual...these are not for buffing yourself. "Team aspect" not one man army lol.

 

These first 3 for a tank primarily but any one really

 

Aluwen's Life: Restores 150 Health over a period of 60 seconds

Aluwen's Spirit: Restores 150 Mana over a period of 60 seconds

Guardian Angel: +15 Material +15 Ethreal Points for 120 seconds (also a ranger with a NV on could benefit)

 

These next 2 for a ranger

 

Guided Arrow: +1 Accuracy for every 15 Mage Levels lasts for 120 seconds

Cursed Arrow: 2% Chance to do 150 damage (like the scyth) lasts 120 seconds

 

Next 3 for Damage Dealer/Fighter

 

Mortos Fury: +1 Damage for every 15 Mage levels lasts for 120 seconds

Speed Hax: Dont think i need to explain this one

Rage: Increase attack speed

 

 

This is think will fix a few problems EL is facing.

 

1. That there hasnt been new magic in forever. The highest required level is 50? I believe for Invisibility. So other then increasing the effectiveness of your MD/Restore/Harm leveling magic is useless. I myself leveled to 49 back in 2007 because i had a reason (no fail restore) it is now 2013 and I am level 57 sooo 8 levels in 6 years...you get my point. This will bring the life back to training magic, and be nice for the people who actually grinded magic ne ways. Just with these spells alone you could make requirements all the way to 100 or so.

 

2. Bring interesting new aspect into game that with these emerges a new build/class that is not only accepted but wanted and sought after for an instance. And allows for people who dont necissarily like to fight still have some joy in an instance in a different way.

 

3. Since the fighter has slowly been getting phased out since really after 120 or really any instance for that matter all you need is a tank and some rangers... considering most people build there chars around fighting especially us (oldies) since there was no ranging or ne thing like that. With the addiition of the buffs it can give the fighter more of a purpose.

 

4. Allows for possibly more essences since i know you 100+ alchemists are ready to kill yourselfs from the pain of trying to level off of HEs since bars cant be made in the same kinda bulk essies can. Or if nothing else giving more purpose to the ones we already have.

 

And obviously they can all be changed accordingly to make the realistic. Just a thought I wanted to share. If you have any criticisms (preferably constructive criticism) let me know what you think. Also if you have any other buff ideas toss them down id love to hear them. Thanks for checkin this out

 

~FrozenSolid

Edited April 10, 2013 by FrozenSolid

[Raistlin]

I really like those spell suggestions, perhaps some tweaking needed.

[Elke]

I quite like the idea of team-play spells along the lines you suggest. The current remote heal is feable compared to the power of the restore spell (why can't I heal others similarily effective as myself?). Thus while it definitely helps, it's underpowered in this comparison.

 

I'm not too sure about putting up the *level* requirements for casting all these new spells too high. It's nice, if people can cast it even at lower levels. But I definitely would want to add a decent level dependence so that levelling for the purpose to become a mage the group wants to have is something one wants to do :-). E.g. there need not be a high entry level for the +accuracy spell - its effectiveness is defined by magic level anyway. But sure enough there are some spells which might want to see a higher level - like the cursed arrows, which btw. is a nice idea.

 

Suggestions for further spells:

* Remote shield (also in the form of heat / cold / radiation shields). They also could have a lower required magic level, but like +1 protection / 20 mag levels or so.

* Blind enemy. This would be a very high-level spell which would work like a disengagement ring usage on the enemies it attacks. It could be a(nother) use for an Enriched Energy Essence.

* enchant weapon (with cold/heat/magic damage). For extra damage of the weapon the bearer uses. also in the form of +1 / 20 mag levels or so.

[Orick]

I like the idea as long as the new spells required at least 90 to cast and worked there way up to 120.. Giving only the best mages those abilities

[revi]

Nice idea, perhaps the healing spells are a bit too strong (given that you can cast a spell every second)

 

Requiring lvl 90 might be a bit extreme:

magic levels work differently from other levels, in that you need the required level before you can even cast the spell.

At that point you will have a large percentage of failures, and as a result, a series of failures is not rare. Not what you

want in a combat situation.. So you'd need at least 10-15 lvls over required to be useful in combat, or lvl 100-105

minimum with Orick's suggestion. That is getting you very close or into the top 10 for magic...

[Orick]

Yeah, I was thinking that after I posted... Maybe add 5 lvls to each of my original numbers and make them the no fail lvl for those spells

[Domino]

Hi, i also find this a good idea.

 

Here are some remarks for what has been stated so far:

 

150 health over 60 seconds is little compared to restoration that gives even more health instant. But, of course, mana consumption is important. Can is stack? If it can stack than you get something quite powerful, if not than is just something little more and good to have in a tough fight.

A spell that restores mana changes a lot. So far SR cooldown is limiting the number of spells you can cast in a short time. You can also manadrain, but this seems a lot more powerful. I think it would actually make mana potions useless. Ofc, the number of ingredients it uses and the cost of the ingredients will also have an impact. 150 mana over 60 seconds gives you 10 mana over 4 seconds, while the cooldown for the SR(20 mana) is 17 seconds.

For speed hax you only need one potion than can stack. The only problem here is that the potion is a little expensive. I guess a spell with the same effect would only make sense if it would be cheaper, but use more slots in the inventory? Or something like this, to make the decision depending on the case.

 

Personally i would prefer lower level requirements, but increase the spell effect with the level. Some spells work like that, some don't. But a lot of people(including myself) stop training magic after a certain level. A must to have spell, that depends on your magic level(and independent from the attributes?) will make more sense to train magic as much as possible.

 

And just another suggestion on my own: to have a training area for magic, like the one for archery. Just with a less cooldown for potions, or something like that. If we are about to have a mage class and new spells that require high magic levels than training all day only mana drain in pk areas is not going to be much fun:D

 

Sorry if i made any mistakes and i was not right with something. Personally i only use magic for restoration. I can cast any spell but, for different reasons, i rarely do anything else than restoration.

[revi]

Don't forget these spells work on someone else than the caster (in principle), so that means that (if he has enough mana) he can cast the spell every second on another fighter.

Now get a few mages working together: they could heal a lot with just the two spells for mana and healing (perhaps even produce mana...).

[Domino]

Don't forget these spells work on someone else than the caster (in principle)

Sorry, i missed that part. You are right and this changes some aspects. Still raises for me one big question: should it stack?

[Infect]

I love this completely, but I would like to suggest one thing only. (PVE only for all offensive spells i.e. all of the spells -tank spells listed)

[Grort]

Maybe decrease the amount of mana given in Aluwens Blessing, maybe make that 75-100, or make the weight/number of ings large to counter balance the large benefit, but apart from that, I quite like (although I always understood buffer spells to be like our shield/MI/Cold Protection spells, but w/e ) Would be interesting if mages could have spells to make them genuinely useful in instances by spellcasting.

 

And I agree with InfectioN, possibly make it so it only works in non-PK maps, since mages are already quite powerful in that area.

Edited April 10, 2013 by Grort

[Orick]

Don't forget these spells work on someone else than the caster (in principle)

Sorry, i missed that part. You are right and this changes some aspects. Still raises for me one big question: should it stack?

 

No!!! Or limited

[FrozenSolid]

Lots of great stuff here guys. Couple things I wanna address. I do NOT believe these spells should stack even coming from different mages.

 

Also Infection raises a good point of keeping them out of PK maps, but maybe hard for coding purposes. Or maybe have a less of an effect?

 

Orick mentioned some levels but 100-120 is kinda high...theres probably like 20 people up there. But i think the huge gap between 50-100 could be filled with these. And it still keeps it realistic. Believe 80's 90's and 100's are hard enough to get to for magic. Maybe someday more people will be higher in magic and we can rethink the 100-120 but as game stands now. I think 50-100 is good.

 

Also I know i said this in my opening, but i have no intention of these spells being able to cast on your self. Only a teammate from a designated mage.. And I believe the cooldowns for these particurlar spells should be higher then the 2 seconds

 

My last thought id like to add is another spell i thought of after doing a 120-140 instance in that stupid long map. Is like a teleport to buddy spell.

 

So for example Mage is at the Bula and his team was killed and sent back to start...instead of the dead team mate walking all the way back to bula...which is probably dead at this point...the mage can Tele him to them. This spell i realize could be taken advantage of...but could be countered with expensive reagents + high cool down...just another thought tell me what ya think

 

Thanks again guys keep it coming!

[Grort]

You need +28 magic lvls to make a spell failsafe, ya? So lvl 50-72 is a good place to put them, meaning failsafe is somewhere near lvl 100. Lvl 100-120 magic for casting would mean you need 128-148 to be failsafe.... err, no

[Mythos]

One amazing suggestion, Frozen!

+100

[nathanstenzel]

I feel the need to speak up for the newbs here. If you are going to have buff spells, why not let the newbs use them too. Sure the spells might not be as powerful in their hands, but a newb going to 40-60 invance with a mage build could try to help the fighters out this way. Maybe the spells could have much lower level requirements with the usual chance of failure till X (I forget the number) levels above the required level and then become more useful as the mage raises rationality and magic level. For instance, a 40-60 mage might be able to heal everyone in the area +1 life at a time for 60 times in 2 minutes. That would certainly not be very useful for the higher level fighters unless they are resting at the moment, but it would be a big boon to those lower level fighters.

 

I think all of the buff spells should be an area of effect similar to the heal summons spell, but perhaps expanding with magic level and life/mana that is restored would be by X per tick for X total ticks. It may be too difficult to program tracking how many points were restored by any particular point in time.

[Grort]

the usual chance of failure till X (I forget the number)

You need +28 magic lvls to make a spell failsafe, ya?

 

And i think one of the main reasons off this topic is that after level 50 magic, you have no new spells, which stops you having that good feeling of finally being bale to cast something new and different (noone else feel that way? Oh, just me )

[FrozenSolid]

I feel the need to speak up for the newbs here. If you are going to have buff spells, why not let the newbs use them too. Sure the spells might not be as powerful in their hands, but a newb going to 40-60 invance with a mage build could try to help the fighters out this way. Maybe the spells could have much lower level

 

What do you need buffs to kill panthers and skeletons ? and if this is how you feel we should be able to make dragon armor at early Manu levels as well so noobs can make them selves awesome armor to help them in 40-60 invance

 

And i think one of the main reasons off this topic is that after level 50 magic, you have no new spells, which stops you having that good feeling of finally being bale to cast something new and different (noone else feel that way? Oh, just me )

 

and this!

Edited April 25, 2013 by FrozenSolid

[Elke]

I feel the need to speak up for the newbs here. If you are going to have buff spells, why not let the newbs use them too. Sure the spells might not be as powerful in their hands, but a newb going to 40-60 invance with a mage build could try to help the fighters out this way. Maybe the spells could have much lower level

 

What do you need buffs to kill panthers and skeletons ? and if this is how you feel we should be able to make dragon armor at early Manu levels as well so noobs can make them selves awesome armor to help them in 40-60 invance

 

Good example. But the other way: You CAN make dragon armour at level 1. You simply will fail very often, thus it will be inefficient. For the same reasons the spells should work at low levels - but fail often.

Another example on those lines are that you can always harvest everything regardless of your level - it simply will take ages. Thus the spell cooldown could depend on the level difference for instance as well.

[Grort]

I feel the need to speak up for the newbs here. If you are going to have buff spells, why not let the newbs use them too. Sure the spells might not be as powerful in their hands, but a newb going to 40-60 invance with a mage build could try to help the fighters out this way. Maybe the spells could have much lower level

 

What do you need buffs to kill panthers and skeletons ? and if this is how you feel we should be able to make dragon armor at early Manu levels as well so noobs can make them selves awesome armor to help them in 40-60 invance

 

Good example. But the other way: You CAN make dragon armour at level 1. You simply will fail very often, thus it will be inefficient. For the same reasons the spells should work at low levels - but fail often.

Another example on those lines are that you can always harvest everything regardless of your level - it simply will take ages. Thus the spell cooldown could depend on the level difference for instance as well.

 

The problem is spells become failsafe after 28 levels: put buffers at a low level, people with decent magic can do it failsafe with ease. I still think if new spells should be introduced, the level they should be required to be cast should be 55-72, as spells above lvl 50 would be nice, and maximum of level 72 required, because otherwise you need more than level 100 to be failsafe - an area that is fairly unpopulated afaik (prove me wrong!). Cooldown depending on instance tier.... why? The spell system works fine as it is, just requires more spells xD

[Elke]

The problem is spells become failsafe after 28 levels: put buffers at a low level, people with decent magic can do it failsafe with ease. I still think if new spells should be introduced, the level they should be required to be cast should be 55-72, as spells above lvl 50 would be nice, and maximum of level 72 required, because otherwise you need more than level 100 to be failsafe - an area that is fairly unpopulated afaik (prove me wrong!). Cooldown depending on instance tier.... why? The spell system works fine as it is, just requires more spells xD

 

That's how it is *now* But 28 levels above recommended need not make it failsafe. Alchemy doesn't work that way either. Why should magic?

[revi]

Alchemy also doesn't prevent you making an item when you are below recommended.

For magic, the levels aren't 'recommended', they are required minimum levels, i.e.

you cannot cast a spell with a minimum level over your magic level.

 

Having a no-fail level seems like a nice balance with a required level.

[JoeButler]

I like the ideas, and would just like to add to what stenzel said. It would be nice to buff to kill the feros,fluffy's and tigers, considering that not many can take them, due to either armour, build or prowess at fighting. Minor versions maybe, so that we can actually install a feeling of team play back into 4060 and a little less urgently, 6080. (dont tell me to teach them teamplay, if i have no tools to do so.)

 

OTher then that, i agree totally with OP.

[massimoC]

Magic is a system different form alchemy. Unless we propose to rework it all (unlikely to happen) the magic levels will continue to work the old way: hard constraint to cast, and failsafe when you are 20 levels higher than the required; ordinary failure does not use up mana and essences. Except that, there are spells which fail against the enemy defenses (and in that case you lose the essies).

 

I am in favor of buffer spells to promote teamplay; IMHO this should also promote a proper mage class someway, otherwise pure a/d builds (tons of restores) will still have the lead, and no significant teambuild will result (a couple of fighter could easily buffer up all the team).

 

There should be some limitations like

• preventing the caster from being buffered, and maybe even causing a penalty to the caster (e.g. an a/d penalty ? self poisoning?)
  
• requiring high magic level to cast (thus promoting mage build which have magic > a/d)
  
• providing high magic xp but requiring a lot of mana (so encouraging the use of mage dresses and Crown of Mana)
  

I have no better ideas (and did not read the full thread, but I agree the power of buffer spells needs carefully set boundaries)

I think we should look for constraints that carve a role for mages in the battles, without the need of a strict class system (e.g. many non-extreme tanks can easily be fighters and vice versa, but once you gear and fill you inv for one role you try not to switch it; if you have to dress as a mage and bring a stock of SRS with you, maybe you will shoot some arrows but you will not that easily switch to a full plate to tank or fight).

[RipTide]

You're pointing right back to here:

 

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=57557&hl=mage