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Orick

Changes made to all instances

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Hey all, there have been some changes made to the pr0 instance, c the thread for those changes, a few of us in the lower lvl instances have noticed before that once you are half way threw the range they become quite ease to finish...

 

Here us an idea that Rabbitman had about changes to all instances in general

 

So I just had a bunch of work put on me to do over the weekend on top of wedding planning stuff that I already have to do, so I can't spend a lot of time on this post. Also, I may not be able to respond to any questions/fame/additional comments until next week.

 

Myself and a few others believe that the 120-140 instance is too easy for the a/d levels required. We have a group of friends who were going daily or more when we were ~120 a/d and having a blast doing it. However, once we reached ~125 a/d the instance became rediculously easy for us. For fun, we started tanking waves without holam or col, going with less people, etc. Recently, I've been enjoying the challenge of being the only fighter/ranger in the instance, with some friends muling a resource bag around for me.

 

With this in mind, we started to discuss how the instance could be made more fun, and encourage us to go with larger teams. I created a program which asks for the number of players in the instance and randomly calculates the number of each mob in each wave, how much gc they dropped, and the number of rares dropped (if made invasion style --see below). The program can be found here:

 

 

 

 

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/63237596/instance.rar

 

 

 

 

The specifics ideas we came up with are here:

 

1. Remove need for enters, make it so you WANT to go with more people for better loot

a. Require specific number of hours to get in for the whole team.

e.g. Make it so 5*160 = 800 hours are needed for the whole team. So if you go in with

4, you need 200 hours each, if 3 270 ea, if 2, 400 etc.

b. More mobs if more people there

c. Make mobs have rare drop chance like in invasions (so there is a real benefit to having

more mobs & more people)

d. Lower the dependence on rare drops from bosses for profit (higher minimum boss mob gc drop)

e. If there is a cutoff of # of people (3 atm) make it so you don’t tele out, but no mobs will

spawn unless there are enough people. If someone lags out and comes back the

mobs will then spawn again.

2. Make each wave more random.

a. More than 1 type of mob.

b. Ranging mobs and melee mobs in same wave.

c. Some brick feeders like wt/bears and profitables like nasps/acs

3. Add teleport pads periodically...walking 15 min muling sucks

4. Make bula unpinabble

 

 

Questions, comments, flames?

 

Rabbitman

 

Here is a few ideas I have come up with as well...

 

Make it very expensive to reduce time, so there is no excessive farming.

 

Take away reducing time all together but make it so you only have to wait 3 ingame days for another chance to go...

 

And

 

What are all the changes made?

 

Instances were made to be done after a waiting time so the waiting time reduction cost should not be a part of your calculation...

 

As far as a 7 man team not making profit... They didn't make profit before the update why do you think they would make one after?

 

I do agree that a 7 man team not making a profit in the first place and in the update is rediculis... I think the min enter should be changed to 1 and the least able to continue changed to 1 then change the drop rate to be flexible to the amount of active members in the instance... Make it so people who don't fight 80% of the creatures don't count for the drop rate... Maybe drop that % for pr0 instance sense most players solo fight ACs and nasps but then group fight the rest... Also I think each wave needs creatures added to they that are normally trained by people in those lvls... Aka add about 50 total of feros/ft/yeti to each of all 5 waves of the 100120...

 

Now lets all talk about how we think changes could be made to help stop farming, make the game fun for as many people, and bring fairness to instances

 

PLEASE DON'T JUST POST HOW CHANGES ARE NOT FAIR TO PEOPLE... IT'S A GAME AND IT WILL CHANGE...

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Orick, I would like to say as a person who has instanced often in 6080 and now instances often in 80100, that they are rarely farmed and work perfectly well. Last night went on 6 man instance to 80100 and got 17kgc share - not bad, considering last laba drop was lame and one of the instancers was a suicidal dipshit.

 

I have also been told that 80100 is extremely risky and difficult to farm with scales. If there are problems with the higher range instances, fix those, but don't impose them on the lower lvl ones, where we often go with 5-6 man teams if we can :D ty

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Let's make everything really hard so only those with specialized builds will be able to participate.

 

In all seriousness the bar keeps being raised. Not just in instances, but with other things. Look how many times Lenny has been enhanced, Radu's daily invasions, etc. I know the topic isn't about invasions, but I will include it here because the same principle applies.

 

Right now I think the instances and Radu's capped invasions are a challenge for those who have a mixed build. By mixed build I mean having non-hydro nexus, non-fighting perks, and few if any neg perks. It makes sense that those who focus on fighting by taking neg perks to maximize their attributes will have an easier time than those who don't. Those people made a conscious decision to trade some of the negative effects of the perks for better performance in other areas. That doesn't mean the system is broken. Just because one skilled player is able to solo an instance doesn't mean it's too easy for everyone else.

 

That being said, I like a lot of RMs suggestions and think the instances and invances for that matter, should be more dynamic based on the number and possibly even skill level of the players who are entering.

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Orick - You have covered almost everything i could possibly think off. :)

 

 

Let's make everything really hard so only those with specialized builds will be able to participate.

 

In all seriousness the bar keeps being raised. Not just in instances, but with other things.

...

 

That being said, I like a lot of RMs suggestions and think the instances and invances for that matter, should be more dynamic based on the number and possibly even skill level of the players who are entering.

 

The Bar does keep getting raised, generally to apply to the higher levels, and then since the higher levels have the bar increased, people think lower levels bar should be raised, and that ends up with people like me, who allready have armour/weapons that are way above average of range, having difficulty. Players want more challenge, mods/admin/dev's give them it, then as they press for more challenge, with increasingly wider effects, players who have been content with things as they were are knocked down, and neglected. IMO, its this increased expectation from people of all levels, reducing what lower levels can do for entertainment, increasingly, and letting people who spent ludicrous amounts of time on EL as being the only ones allowed entertainment. (OK, this is only vaguely connected, but i think it should be thought of when doing anything that applies to the ranges around my level, e.g. 4060/6080)

 

And Invances shouldn't be effected by this. They're fine as they are, i've done 4060/6080/80100s and all are fine. Again, if its you guys over 100 complaining of it being farmed, half of the complainers are culprits in doing so.

 

...

Last night went on 6 man instance to 80100 and got 17kgc share - not bad, considering last laba drop was lame and one of the instancers was a suicidal dipshit.

lol, but aside from that...

I have also been told that 80100 is extremely risky and difficult to farm with scales. If there are problems with the higher range instances, fix those, but don't impose them on the lower lvl ones, where we often go with 5-6 man teams if we can :D ty

 

Lower Levels can hardly get instances (6080 im speaking of generally) because of lack of players, increasing challenge would mean killing of instances for us alltogether.

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Imo 60-80 and 80-100 instances are well balanced as is. Only change I would recommend for those 2 is adding a minimum gc drop to the dilis/labs.

 

100-120 isn't bad either, but I think it could use a little changes. First, the number of ac/trice should be switched imo, since the AXA are much harder. Second, I think the lorcs should be changed out for either frost trolls or maybe 4 of the easier penguins (japitas iirc). Lastly, maybe 1-3 rd instead of just 1.

 

This is staying within the confines of 1 mob type per wave; if we could branch it out a bit more I think 100-120 would be a good place to have some multiple critter type waves.

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Imo 60-80 and 80-100 instances are well balanced as is. Only change I would recommend for those 2 is adding a minimum gc drop to the dilis/labs.

 

100-120 isn't bad either, but I think it could use a little changes. First, the number of ac/trice should be switched imo, since the AXA are much harder. Second, I think the lorcs should be changed out for either frost trolls or maybe 4 of the easier penguins (japitas iirc). Lastly, maybe 1-3 rd instead of just 1.

 

This is staying within the confines of 1 mob type per wave; if we could branch it out a bit more I think 100-120 would be a good place to have some multiple critter type waves.

 

Make the instances more intresting and different for ones above 100-120, i think, is a good idea.

And about the 6080/80100, thats what i was saying :P

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Imo 60-80 and 80-100 instances are well balanced as is. Only change I would recommend for those 2 is adding a minimum gc drop to the dilis/labs.

 

100-120 isn't bad either, but I think it could use a little changes. First, the number of ac/trice should be switched imo, since the AXA are much harder. Second, I think the lorcs should be changed out for either frost trolls or maybe 4 of the easier penguins (japitas iirc). Lastly, maybe 1-3 rd instead of just 1.

 

This is staying within the confines of 1 mob type per wave; if we could branch it out a bit more I think 100-120 would be a good place to have some multiple critter type waves.

+1

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Sounds good so far :D

If we can maintain the ability for people nearer bottom of range still being able to help in instances (with 88 attack I was adopted by a team) then everything should be fine if people can get in 100120 at 110~a/d

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Here is another way to make it so people can't solo them... Make 2 paths to fallow for the lower lvl creatures that is a long enough that it can't be backtracked... That might just be a whole new instance idea tho

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Here is another way to make it so people can't solo them... Make 2 paths to fallow for the lower lvl creatures that is a long enough that it can't be backtracked... That might just be a whole new instance idea tho

 

Don't like that idea :wacko: splitting the team isn't a solution. And to make it long enough that you cannot back track would require a exceptionally long distance, and be frustrating to walk along. And then people will still get around it with speedhax and horses

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Here is another way to make it so people can't solo them... Make 2 paths to fallow for the lower lvl creatures that is a long enough that it can't be backtracked... That might just be a whole new instance idea tho

 

Don't like that idea :wacko: splitting the team isn't a solution. And to make it long enough that you cannot back track would require a exceptionally long distance, and be frustrating to walk along. And then people will still get around it with speedhax and horses

 

True

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In all seriousness the bar keeps being raised. Not just in instances, but with other things.

that's a logical consequence of increasing knowledge of the game, magic/ranging power and gear available for average player

 

changes that should be done imo (from what i understand to be the current state):

 

60-80 - i don't know much about it but i hear it's fine except minimum drops should be more than 0

 

80-100 - left it long ago, also minimum drops should be more than 0

 

100-120 - acw/trice numbers switched (acw harder than trice, so should be less of them)

 

120-140

- nasps should be replaced with new similar creature (for simple solution let's call it "mare nasparliu" and say it looks exactly the same) that has more defense levels (120-130) - so that 120 a/d player can't kill it 1v1 with sword+arrow on without problems

- bulangiu unpinnable

- cocarals are a bit easy at this point, we used to kill them at 110 a/d you know... perhaps they should be replaced with "mare cocaral" (:P) that has a bit more armor/toughness and 10 more a/d

 

120-200

- instead of putting little blues there, there should be new creature that has a chance to summon them (like giant->bears) which would go around the code difficulty in making waves multiple-typed. let's call it "feros shaman" - 25% chance to summon WT, 20% chance to summon little blue, 5% chance to summon big blue. "feros shaman" should be similar to giant in stats/hp, but IMMUNE to ranging/magic/engi. if it would work, well balanced amount of those could replace dragon wave in 120-140

- nasp wave could also benefit from the hopefully newly added "mare nasparliu"

- the rest was OK, dragon wave would be ice/black as it was, if you had chance to get a blue dragon or even a few in the first wave

- i heard there's a chance to get MB instead of bulas now.. should be milf and nexus removal chance switched from bula to milf (give bulas extra 10k gc and milf should get the nexus chance, perhaps a bit more than bula has now)

 

i don't bring up the drops of wave monsters, that's of secondary importance, but i do believe low instance bosses should have higher than 0 minimum gc, bula should have more average gc instead of nexus chance, and milf should have nexus chance

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