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Pear finder cooldown

Cooldown  

73 members have voted

  1. 1. Cooldown

    • None
      28
    • 30 Seconds
      7
    • 60 secods
      9
    • 90 seconds
      29


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Burn, try to think outside your own box for once and see what might get other people enthused about activities like these? They are one of the best things to do in the game but by discouraging others (again, not me personally but clearly others are), you just push people like that away. It might be good for you... but is it for the game?

 

Oh and feel free to not even value my opinion because I'm an 'explayer' but really I have no particular vendetta with you, i just have a different opinion and a clue.

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Voted "None". I understand Burn. And I'm pretty sure that adding CD on PF won't change anything. You cannot change one's attitude to their laziness.

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Interesting. No names named, but people are putting their foot in the shoe themselves. Does it fit?

 

 

I want those dragon stats down so I can fight them too. I haven't earned it, but I am entitled according to the logic that it should be for everyone.

 

You don't want to level your skill in hunting, but you're entitled to find it anyway. (Or wait, if you don't play, you're not even going to do that if it was sat on your lap on a silver platter.)

 

Thousands of excuses given on almost every subject brought up when the subject means actually having to earn the ability to do something. Happens every time, usually to the detriment of the subject.

 

Go ahead, change it. See how dull and pointless it gets.

 

------------------

 

We really should hear from some of the Big Book mixers, they're the ones who heavily use the Action Point potions, thus the pears since that's the pear's only use.

 

Specifically, the cost perspective. Are we looking at turning these books back into something only bought at the NPC due to ing price?

Edited by Burn

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Provide me some proof that everything in the game has to be available to do to everyone, regardless of their skill, and I'll think "outside my box".

 

I put a *lot* of time, effort, and gc into becoming the hunter I have. (Malameo has done the same. Stivy has done the same. Anyone else who truly wanted to hunt could do the same.)

 

So no, I'm not gonna help promote the agenda of those who think they're entitled to what we spent so much on earning. I'm here to support those of us who have earned it, and oppose the ones who feel they're entitled without earning it.

 

 

BTW, several people have posted understanding that viewpoint despite not being hunters themselves. Thank you for that.

 

 

 

Some of you should perhaps try grape hunting instead. No rush since there's little if anyone doing it, grapes can actually stay around longer if not found so time is less of an issue. And there are certainly a lot less critters than there are harvables. Just go around and start kicking.

 

Not fun? Take the race out of pear hunting and yeah, that's it, you took the fun out of it too.

Edited by Burn

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carrying on a discussion with someone that can't read is senseless. I've provided my opinion to Radu, he can do with it as he pleases.

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I think that if this encourages teamwork, it's still better than a few people finding 90% of the pears.

 

And Elke took the words right out of my mouth:

The average of an ensemble is a very poor indication on the probability of items found below or above the average value. The mathematical function you look for is the median which indicates the 50% quantile, thus 50% probability of values are found below and above by its definition - independent on the actual shape of the distribution of values. Generally, the average of an ensemble is highly biased by a few extrem outliers (or generally the skew), in this case the times a pear is only found after very a long time.

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Teamwork has already tried and failed. And while I don't object to some things being teamwork (instance, invance, bada, neno...) why does *everything* new have to be about it? This game is supposed to be open to all kinds of play.

 

The fail comes when it's determined that by the time they split the cost of the pear, it will be well below their gc/hour.

 

I have no doubt if you change it, a few teams might start for a while. But they'll disappear when they hit that point.

 

 

BTW, Team's just going to push the possibility of finding it faster, cooldown or not, I thought the point was to slow it down and kill the race fun.

 

 

 

 

I track average only for economic purposes, as my tracking was started specifically to determine if I could drop the price from the 70k that was established before I even started, as I noted buyers were few (hell, people who can use it at all or few) and they were hesitant to pay that much for it.

 

In order to reduce it, I had to determine what I was spending on average for every pear find. That's not just the times I find it, but taking into account all the time and finders spent when I don't.

 

Calculating things like the 150 minutes in PV (and the 44 finders to find that map first) only to determine it was unharvable, wasting all that time and gc. Those are part of the cost just as much as what's spent on the time that it's found.

 

And after all that, a bit more for, well, hey, I did find a rare item.

 

The more data I gather, the more I drop the price, so more will be willing to buy. There really is a gc-pain limit on that.

 

I don't operate on "how fast" I find it. I don't care if it's 2 minutes or 2 hours, I start the "race" knowing I may have to spend that much time doing it. People keep putting too much stock in the time. I can use 1 finder and still spend an hour hunting depending on the map. I can spend 70+ finders and find it in less time. There's more factors here than time.

 

The data was designed for the economic perspective of hunting at all, and bringing the price down to make the pears more marketable to the few who actually can use it.

 

Slowly bringing it down so as not to cause another drastic price freakout like what happened with the grapes on recent server updates.

 

But anyway, that was the purpose of collecting the data, bettering it for the community by finding a more tolerable price that would make them valued rather than gather dust.

 

 

 

 

 

I still say these suggestions are trying to fix player mentality through distributing the wealth of those who earned it.

 

 

I officially make a challenge to hold off doing anything, and just 3 people accept the pear challenge: every time you're on, hunt. You're gonna keep losing, both gc and time. It's gonna cost you a fortune. When there's no hunt in progress, pick a map, and start marking it for all those hard-to-see harvs hidden under trees or in cave walls. That's gonna cost you time you could be doing something earning gc or levels. But do it anyway.

 

And keep practicing the hunt. Stay speed haxed 24/7 so you'll learn to handle your food and not lose the hax while distracted doing other things.

 

These are the things I did. Mala likely did. Stivy likely did.

 

We spent small fortunes in both time and energy on doing things the way they are.

 

 

Come on, just 3 people have the guts to go through that. You're challenged.

 

Anyone? *chirp*

 

Nope, player mentality is the problem, that would cost too much. Rare items shouldn't be that expensive... oh, wait.

 

 

 

The gc and time/effort we put in to being hunters is being Obama'd with this, distributed to those who can do it just as we did, but won't.

 

 

No matter, it'll die off as half the people who don't hunt responding now still won't, and those that do will get bored. The race is the truly fun part to it. No race, no fun, no do.

 

 

Speaking of things that got pushed to "only team" things, I keep running past neno and bada and noone seems to be playing with them. I can't say they're never played with, but it does seem to be the exception rather than the norm. Perhaps this case might actually remain fun and continue to be worth doing if for once something is kept geared for the solo players, though teams *can* do it (for eventual loss). Which is also keeping in the spirit of being a game that people can play in many ways, not just "a team thing or grind".

 

More like Lenny hunting, which I've done solo in the past and others have done as a team. Team only stuff outside of invance/instance doesn't seem to get used that much.

 

If people were really wanting to team this, they'd be doing it now. After all, more people working together should be able to take on soloists like me and mala, right?

 

----------------------------

 

We who do this solo, who broke the standard player mentality and took the non-leveling gc-killing time to earn our "status" as professional hunters, are already saying we're having fun doing it.

 

And we would truly appreciate if all that time, effort and gc weren't completely wasted by essentially killing any fun in the hunt for the sake of those not willing to put in the same time, effort, and gc that we did.

 

Please don't redistribute our earned skills for the sake of the "I want it all, I want it now, I am entitled" player mentality.

Edited by Burn

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Well, I am sure we can try it and see what happens, no? Most people seem to agree that a cooldown is needed. I can always remove it if it doesn't work the way I intended it.

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Wow?!

I know obviously that 'some' people would prefer that a cool down was not made on pearfinders (the huge price helping), i have tried looking fr pears on numerous occasions adding a cooldown will just level the playing field a little.

It should be a race, and people will look for it more regardless of what 'some' people are saying. there are things in EL that need cooldowns. Pearfinders are one of them.

 

Edit for poor English & Grammar.

Edited by Rokk

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The race was the real fun in this. The non-hunters here don't get that.

 

This'll kill the race, as the running around trying to find the map was the most fun part. That "woohoo" moment when you're furiously running around, and suddenly "the pear is in this map".

 

All the path determining, speed hax use, and so on you were impressed with us doing once a while back when talking about those will be gone with that slow cooldown. No use for them with all that waiting time.

 

 

 

But, I can see when I've lost. I kinda with the first post knew this was going to happen anyway, but had to fight to try and keep what had become a very fun distraction from grinding from being mangled.

 

 

Thanks for taking the time to read and understand all the effort we've wasted at least becoming skilled at this. I'll hold on to the hope of the last sentence, that it gets changed back when people realize it's quite dull without the race fun aspect, and those thinking they're gonna get rich off pears learn a cold hard truth that they won't.

 

Who knows, maybe so dull it'll encourage more people to waste the time and gc we did so they can participate in the changed-back fun hunt race style.

Edited by Burn

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As Burn said. If someone of the complaining ones tried to move his *** he could beat them. If you really want to make it more "team game" you don't have to put CD. Avallah and I were able to find a few times a pear. It's not so hard to buy some (let's say only 5 - its ~1kgc) PF and walk through few nearby maps with new day. Maybe you'll be the lucky one who find first the map?

 

The factor that determines Pear or Treasure Hunts is one's desire/will.

 

My next few cents.

----------

Lup.

Edited by learg

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I understand why you are defending your territory, I'm sure others do too, but just tell me.. where's the 'skill' in using the map editor to mark each and every harvestable on your maps?

 

edit: on second thought, I guess it's the same skill you used to bypass most of the PK part in II before we got it nerfed for ya

Edited by Dilly

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I don't think Burn used map editor. And in my opinion it won't help much.

 

#Add

The SKILL is not only marking the harvestables but all what you need to do to find the pear.

Edited by learg

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The buggy map editor crashes after a max of about 5 minutes use here. Not sure where you got that being used from. You don't need the editor to walk around maps marking harvs. In fact that walking around is part of the learning, effective paths between harvs to ensure not missing any.

 

And there being a 250 mark limit built in to the client code, marking all of them is actually impossible on many maps, especially when you add to that any NPCs, spawn spots, and so on to mark. Thus you make different marks that indicate what's in an area instead.

Edited by Burn

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i voted for 60 seconds, which i think would give anyone intent on pear hunting more of a level playing field. i know burn and a few others only have the advantage of map/harvestable knowledge and having honed their technique, and this imo is totally fair. however, if others care to hunt, the 60 sec cooldown will give everyone a better chance to find the right map by sheer luck of choosing to check it early in their search. once a player finds the map, there is still the matter of locating the harvestable, which the skilled and knowledgeable searcher still has the best chance of doing. in this way, those who have honed their hunting skill still benefit from the time they've spent doing so.

 

I see most people have voted for 90 seconds, but i think that's a bit too long and i can see most everyone getting annoyed with that and at some point suggesting it be shortened to 60 :omg:

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The average of an ensemble is a very poor indication on the probability of items found below or above the average value. The mathematical function you look for is the median which indicates the 50% quantile, thus 50% probability of values are found below and above by its definition - independent on the actual shape of the distribution of values. Generally, the average of an ensemble is highly biased by a few extrem outliers (or generally the skew), in this case the times a pear is only found after very a long time.

 

Side note: only for a Gaussian distribution the median equals the average. On grounds that negative times cannot occur, a rather a Poisson distribution would be appropriate.

 

I love this elf :)

 

 

As to the subject of the poll: I am not going to vote, since I never hunted for a pear in my EL-life, and cannot judge what the most appropriate cooldown is. I am not sure a cooldown would change the basic mechanism: it slows down everyone equally, so assuming there is an optimal order for visiting the maps, and the harvestables inside each map, the winning strategy is always the same. The cooldown would simply occasionally reward those that do not follow the optimal strategy, and just harvest at random. The occasional find maybe can get them interested in the pear hunt, maybe not. Worth a try probably, and easily reverted if it doesn't work.

 

More in general, it would be a better world the one in which the best player at a given game, takes pride in driving more people to play that game, and in creating a more vibrant community, rather than in winning every single match and, in the end, being the only one to play.

Edited by Usl

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I've done some pear finding myself and understand what Burn means about the race part of it, but really it's just being found too fast.

 

I voted for a 30s cooldown. This is enough to keep someone from checking 10 maps in under a minute, but still keep it from taking too long to check all maps. 30s cooldown would make it take a maximum of about 40 minutes to check all maps, which is still pretty reasonable.

 

On the "teamwork not being profitable enough" - I call complete BS. LNX has found it a couple times working together and I think everyone was pretty happy with the results. You divide up the costs and efforts, and divide the eventual profit. Assuming efficient teamwork that divides the work equally, the time/risk/reward ratio is exactly the same, just divided by the number of people. And really, with more people working together, the risk part goes down since the chance to find increases.

 

I'm sorry if certain people in this game are complete misanthropists and can't stand to do anything with other people, but this is an MMORPG, so teamwork is supposed to be encouraged.

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Voted 60 seconds, 30 still seems a tad short.

 

In regard to my (lack of recent) pear hunting experience:

I have not been involved in these discussions for my own benefit. I stopped pear hunting when it became aparent that pears were no longer used for globals. I have switched to grapes instead, which pretty much require the same kind of map knowledge. I also occasionally use hax pots to speed up my Joker finding, just putting these techniques to a different use than pears.

Edited by Maxine

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More in general, it would be a better world the one in which the best player at a given game, takes pride in driving more people to play that game, and in creating a more vibrant community, rather than in winning every single match and, in the end, being the only one to play.

 

This has to be the most sensible thing I have read in this thread. EVERYONE regardless of who they are or how they play, is entitled to an opinion here - if Ent had wanted a select group only to respond he would have created a closed poll or stated as such when he posted, so please ALL of you keep in mind that just because an opinion is different from yours, it does not make it any less valid. They are all after all, opinions!

 

That said, no I have not hunted the pear, and it is certainly not because I lack the map knowledge, gcs, or motivation - those of you that know me know I can spend hours hunting for hyper bag contests, hidden invasions, best harvest-able locations etc. I do not hunt it because I don't want too, would a cool down change that? Most likely not, I have less time to play these days and can think of better ways to spend my time. However I have voted for a cool down, for the simple reason that I think it would be the best thing for the game and fairer all around for those that do want to hunt.

 

Now *mommy head on* can we all please learn to respect each others opinions and state those opinions in a way that does not appear to be a direct attack on anyone else. All this conflict over a bloody pixilated pear is mind boggling! I get that it is important to a lot of you, and I get that a lot of people have fun with it, but this is a game at the end of the day, and when a game gets you so heated up that you stamp your feet and bang your keyboard - its time to step away for a while! *mommy head off*

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If you truly want fair, pay me, mala, and Stivy back for the incredible amount of time and gc we wasted to become good at something only to have it randomly taken away without warning, with thoughts that this was actually a non-skill skill worth learning and having fun with. That's the part that's the true pisser.

 

That and the fact that what used to be the only real "race" in the game, something that currently is unique in the game, is having the fun sucked out of it that in the end makes it nothing more than a variation of Joker hunting.

 

Of course those who never hunted are voting for cooldowns and suggesting other nonsense on top of it, they haven't paid the extreme price we did for something we thought was going to stay around to be worth paying, despite how expensive it was.

 

 

 

More in general, it would be a better world the one in which the best player at a given game, takes pride in driving more people to play that game, and in creating a more vibrant community, rather than in winning every single match and, in the end, being the only one to play.

 

I believe I'm being singled out here yet again despite not being the "best player", nor ever claiming to be, just on equal footing with a few others who also were willing to put in the effort to be good at it. I was actually happy to see Stivy had dared take up the challenge as well, even so late, as it added to the race aspect of the hunt.

 

I wrote a complete tutorial on pear hunting, in heavy detail, which gave away every single "secret" or "trick" to finding it as I do. I encouraged those I saw making attempts to get into the hunt via pm, giving them tips when they'd ask and making sure they knew about my tutorial as anyone following it could easily be just as "good" at hunting as me if they put the effort into it, I left nothing out.

 

I have never been afraid of competition in this, and was actually trying to push people to try it.

 

The only difference is this: Where I did it by trying to encourage people to overcome the difficulty aspect of learning to find this rare item, a difficulty I endured myself, things like this are being done to instead try and make it easier to find a rare item.

 

Since when did we start doing that, trying to make rare things easier? People want rare things, they're just not willing to pay the price to get them. Lenny has been regularly updated to make him more and more difficult. Invances are getting adjusted to make them more difficult. Joker's not hunted that much, but even there the spawn points for him have been changed a couple times to counteract when he becomes found too often.

 

But here... and only here, we're taking the give it away, make it easier and duller route.

 

Bada and Neno are getting very little use it seems. They're costly. Is our next step making them easier too? After all, not everyone can do them.

 

Don't try to claim I just wanted it to myself though. I encouraged competition. I just expected the competition to have to do the same thing I did, not hand them things on silver platters.

 

I never cared if I found it or not in the end, I enjoyed the fun of the race. You've never once heard me complain when I didn't find it, or someone did before me. Finding it was just the bonus, the reward for happening to get lucky and winning the race.

 

The same reason I enjoy the invisible rat hunts, which unfortunately can't happen often because the value of what they drop is already sinking to no value for many of the items. Economy kill. Sad they have to be rare since they're fun to do.

 

 

 

-----------------------

 

 

The decision to remove the actual fun part that required any skill has already been determined, at this point all you're doing is dragging it on.

 

The non-hunters have voted, and chosen to remove our skill from the game, something we actually enjoyed the fast pace of., and paid extensively for in both gc and time.

So I have nothing more to say on the matter.

 

Not taking the coming baiting in 3... 2... 1...

Edited by Burn

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If you truly want fair, pay me, mala, and Stivy back for the incredible amount of time and gc we wasted to become good at something only to have it randomly taken away without warning, with thoughts that this was actually a non-skill skill worth learning and having fun with. That's the part that's the true pisser.

Stop the crying. The huge number of pears you've already found is payment enough.

 

Of course those who never hunted are voting for cooldowns and suggesting other nonsense on top of it, they haven't paid the extreme price we did for something we thought was going to stay around to be worth paying, despite how expensive it was.

You keep making claims that it's nothing but non-pear hunters "against you". Hey, guess what? I've hunted pears and I voted for cooldown. Stop making false claims about whether or not people have hunted. You don't know that, and can't accurately state it.

 

 

More in general, it would be a better world the one in which the best player at a given game, takes pride in driving more people to play that game, and in creating a more vibrant community, rather than in winning every single match and, in the end, being the only one to play.

 

I believe I'm being singled out here yet again despite not being the "best player", nor ever claiming to be, just on equal footing with a few others who also were willing to put in the effort to be good at it.

And gee, why do you think you are being singled out? Is it perhaps because of your king of the world attitude? Maybe it's because of the way you treat people?

 

The non-hunters have voted, and chosen to remove our skill from the game

Once again a statement you can't back up.

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Just a few data i collected with mercator since 2012-09-03 when i started recording people who find Pears.

Bullone 1

burn 62

_DEATH_ 1

KrazyKiller 1

malameo 43

quesar 2

stivy 12

122 Pears in total.

I do not claim to have recorded all findings otherwise it should be 144 , some pears did not get found at all on some pears mercator just might not have recorded it. but it shows one thing. in the last month the pear got be found by about 7 different people. and very that Burn alone found more then half of them.

 

It shows who have the skill in those hunts, and it shows the need. to level the playing field a little. A cooldown may just do that. My bet is that the top 3 of the hunters will still get most of the pears. but i think its not to anyone’s disadvantages if others have a little higher chance on getting lucky to.

 

At least those people taking part will learn the maps better. One thing burn say its the most important thing to know. Thats why i voted for a cooldown.

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I voted none.

 

The reason I did this is because I fully agree with the arguments brought up by Burn and Malameo. They worked very hard for a skill we can all learn.

 

I, for myself, gave up pear hunting because I donᷰt have inorg 6.

 

The argument of more teamwork doesnᷰt hold any water for me. If you want to search it as a team, you can allready. You can get a couple of guildies/friends and let everyone check a map. When the map is found, all start harving.

 

 

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