Mage/healer 'class'

[Entropy]

I was thinking about making a mage/healer class.

The idea is to make it a class in its own, without top level fighters also becoming top level mages. I still want to maintain the flexibility of the classes we always had, so the only way to do it properly is via a new perk, that as to be very expensive. Something like 20 PPs.

 

With it, the remote heal, harm, heal summons, smite summons and possibly a new spell, like smite invaded, will be much more powerful (2-3 times maybe).

Before I start working at it, is there anyone interested in this?

 

[edit] The harm bonus would work only against pve, not against players.

[OlenTheRed]

Can't wait to see the light show great idea !!!

[vinoveritas]

Considering the pick points value and the balance in this game i think this change can be to powerful.

That said i am not opposed to the idea of a way that enhances some spells a bit.

It's a good idea but i would not use 20 pp to get that skill not even 10.

But how about the idea of a potion or similar thing (like ap pots) very expensive NPC only. It enhances permanent certain spells not all (so there could be different potions to buy). They will give Permement bonus per potion like 2% enhancement of your healing power. an other potion could enhance the range of the spell a little (1 step for 5 potions or so). People have then choice how far they would like to extend the ability in their own way. Instead of potions books would be a good way to do it too. Then they have to give gc as well as time into getting their char to the place they would want it, and it would be not a fast change.

Just a few ideas on how i would get on this as the general idea is good, but i would not use it.

Edited October 8, 2012 by vinoveritas

[OldSchool]

Good idea for invances/invasions/instances. Maybe ppl will do more teamwork as for now. 1 Thing is missing here (At least I think so) - Its spell what let healers heal more players than just 1, like Heal Summoned for summons. ANd those 20 PP's aint that much, just remove some PP from will/reason.

And - as far as I know, there aint any type of RPG game what let you be good fighter and pr0 mage at same time, think about it

[Lycron]

Sounds like a good idea, can't wait to see it.

[WolfWitch]

I love this idea - it would inspire more teamwork between the fighters and non fighters, something that IMHO has been missing in EL for a long time. At the moment I see a lot of "US vs THEM" debates between the different groups of players and this would address that in a game spirited way. And I agree it needs to be expensive if you want to keep the play styles as separate as possible.

 

Having said that Vino's idea of a potion similar to AP is a good idea too, however I am not sure about reducing the PP's needed, maybe a combination of both ideas could work well. With hydro available for most of the "fighters" nexus' that would just make it easier for a power leveller (and no I am not bitching about power levellers in general - just making a point) to be both a good all round fighter and a good healer. Maybe a way to address that would be to make the perk dependant on other perks taken - so if you have say 2 of the "fighter perks" you cannot access the "healer perk", I know this will lead to a huge debate between some players as to what constitutes a fighters perk and what does not, but just looking at ways to keep the "classes" separate.

 

My 2 Euro cents xxx

[Elke]

I was thinking about making a mage/healer class.

The idea is to make it a class in its own, without top level fighters also becoming top level mages. I still want to maintain the flexibility of the classes we always had, so the only way to do it properly is via a new perk, that as to be very expensive. Something like 20 PPs.

 

With it, the remote heal, harm, heal summons, smite summons and possibly a new spell, like smite invaded, will be much more powerful (2-3 times maybe).

Before I start working at it, is there anyone interested in this?

 

[edit] The harm bonus would work only against pve, not against players.

I like the general idea to allow further differenciation as currently any dedicated fighter can be a mage just as good as anyone else really.

 

I find 20 PP a lot, thus the exact PP payment would need to be well balanced, the bonus need be quite a bit. As you say to double or tripple the effectiveness of heal and harm and maybe some special spells, that sounds about a fair trade to me. On the other hand I do believe that it indeed also should have some effect on the PvP side - why should it suddenly be totally worthless there? A fighter attacking a high-level mage should have to suffer some sever consequences unless s/he takes special precautions as extreme magic imunity.

 

But maybe there's also the option to add several mage-related perks, similar to like there are a lot of fighting-related and at least two ranging-related ones. Maybe like "hidden knowledge" and "arcane adept" and "arcane master" to gain access to extra spells and extra power and extra strong power respectively (arcane master only available when arcane adept is also taken) with about 6PP, 5PP and 10PP each - maybe allowing access to one spell only to the arcane masters.

Edited October 8, 2012 by Elke

[Electricity]

This is such a cool idea, I would come back to play the game if this were implanted.

 

I think the addition of such a class would give some lower level players (80-120 a/d) an important role in pvp, too, which is something that I've always advocated for but never really happened. It was always the one 140s players who would dominate.

 

I think Magic Immunity should be re designed, or, perhaps a spell should be designed to counter it. Maybe a dis spell of sorts, thats only available to the mage?

 

Cant wait to see if this goes through

Edited October 8, 2012 by Electricity

[teotwawki]

I would love to see a practicable mage career for PvE mainly. Not really possible now, not enough offensive power (!) for top-level mobs (drags and probably also the higher, only tested up to drags). Also not possible because instances and invances require only A/D to get into (why? can't a ranger range or a mage spell? ).

 

It makes me very sad that you can't do without melee as it stands now... it's a pity, no more subtlety in class or build choice, the only option is get first toughness or first reaction maxed. Even a mage that can only heal (meaningfully) would be attractive to me, as long as he's allowed in the higher instances without being a fighter first... Don't mean that you should have power without training and spending pps, but I think you should have the option of a build with token pps in phys/coord (for a bit of emu) and no melee ablities. A build that can go all the way eventually, I mean, hunting dragons and getting into the higher instances, otherwise there's no point to it.

 

And please don't make it GC-only like the AP potions, too easy for old players to get it and too hard for middle-aged ones. If it's really a separate career, should be PP based (a lot of PPs, so that a top fighter can't have this too; and powerful enough to make it worth it giving up the melee for good).

 

Just my two cents, sorry if I offended anyone, certainly didn't mean to!

[Raz]

I really think it will be an interesting (and radical) departuire for EL.

 

Maybe instead of 20pp - make it such that once youhave the perk - your p/c only count at 1/2 value during fights. IE if maxed @ 48/48 - you would fight melee like 24/24. You would still retain the EMU and other benefits of 48/48.

 

Currently there is nothing to stop one of the top players buying 20 more pp and taking the perk as well - ie mage does not preclude being a top tank. It would also allow players to take the perk without having to mess about removing attributes.

[teotwawki]

Wow, great idea... i would add to it that rather than halving p/c, halve the reaction/dexterity directly... I'm all for it (and make the perk worth it!)

[Elke]

Another sensible addition to the mage career would be a perk which reduces mana costs for spells to half or 2/3 - possibly a perk which has one or two of the mage perks as precondition.

 

And wrt invances and instances: their requirements then would need an amendment which takes the magic trait into account, thus that entry can be gained also by a proper combination of magic perks and magic skill level.

Edited October 8, 2012 by Elke

[yethq]

LOve it radu, and I would actually train my alt I am not playing now, a little noob alt, to do this.

 

I played ,mage in all my other rpgs so watch out if it is implemented

 

I would pay the pps too..

[KoDdy]

agree w/ idea , but would make it also via some pots or something like that + would add also some DECENT bonus against players

[circe]

Love the idea

[bob88]

While I like the idea of giving mages/healers more power, I think that non-fighters are being punished again. To be a fighter you dont have to spend 20 pps to be a part of the class you just spend your points as normal. Mages already have to invest in a lot of rationality making them about worthless in combat. Now the mage needs to come up with another 20 points to be more effective in an invance/instance while still being worthless in pk. I do believe that 20 points is a bit excessive. Current mages will have three options if they want to enter this new class, 1) remove points from rationality, 2) reset, and 3) save up the points. In the first two options the mage is entering as a less effective mage because of the reduced rationality.

 

As has been said by others the top fighters/gc makers can just continue buying points and enter into mage class making this separation of classes not happen. I do like Raz's idea of halving the phys/coord for taking mage class in order to discourage fighters from buying there way into the mage class. I also like the idea that mana costs should be reduced but I would make it part of the class instead of making it something extra to get with even more pp's.

Edited October 8, 2012 by bob88

[learg]

I like WW's:

Maybe a way to address that would be to make the perk dependant on other perks taken - so if you have say 2 of the "fighter perks" you cannot access the "healer perk", I know this will lead to a huge debate between some players as to what constitutes a fighters perk and what does not, but just looking at ways to keep the "classes" separate.

and also Elke's and Raz's suggestions. Make not 1 perk worth 20 pp but divide it on few perks.

Players should have been given a chance to build "balanced" class too. E.g. You can take 1 melee perk and 1 mage perk with no or minor restrictions. And if the person gets more mage perks more melee negs are added and you cannot take more fighter perks.

 

I hope you'll understand what I tried to tell you.

 

#Add:

As restrictions/negs I see:

*decreased basic/cross attributes (was posted before),

*negative bonuses for acc/dodge,

*person with this perk/-s could not use armors better than requiring human 5

----

Lupus

Edited October 8, 2012 by learg

[Entris]

I think this is a great idea and would probably take the perk depending on the end resault of it ofc.

 

Instead of adding lots of negative things to it such as reduced P/C other stats or removing the possibility to wear all the armors you have the nexus to wear it would be better (imo) to add the suggestion that WW had about making the perk only available to those that doesn't have specific perks more common with those that are "pure" fighters.

Edited October 8, 2012 by Entris

[Entropy]

Ok, I am glad that people like the idea. I just came up with it yesterday, so I didn't think about all the implications.

 

For example, as Oldschool said: "ANd those 20 PP's aint that much, just remove some PP from will/reason." This is a valid complaint.

 

Regarding the PvE thing, the idea is so that a low level character that is a pro mage should not be able to one hit someone who has been playing for years. Doubling or triple the damage for PvE would most likely ruin PK, as mages could kill anyone.

 

I like Raz's idea too: "Maybe instead of 20pp - make it such that once youhave the perk - your p/c only count at 1/2 value during fights. IE if maxed @ 48/48 - you would fight melee like 24/24. You would still retain the EMU and other benefits of 48/48.". This would totally prevent people that have all their attributes maxed out and are top fighters to spend more money and also become pr0 mages.

 

Entris: "Instead of adding lots of negative things to it such as reduced P/C other stats or removing the possibility to wear all the armors you have the nexus to wear it would be better (imo) to add the suggestion that WW had about making the perk only available to those that doesn't have specific perks more common with those that are "pure" fighters."

 

The problem with this is that many pro fighters don't have a lot of fighter related perks. Also, some quests give fighter related perks, so it would be unfair not to allow mages to do those quests.

 

 

I think the best idea for a mage class is to impose some fighting penalties. Something like less damage, less defense, less criticals, not as much bonuses from armor, etc. And as advantages, I can see: More magic damage, more healing, and possibly the power to break through an opponent's MI at some action points cost. Say, 50% change to break through MI, cost 30 APs regardless of the success rate.

[breTRYano]

i think simply making it costs pp's would be a bad idea as it would have no effect on the top lvl players. 20 pps is nothing but another irl paycheck.

 

i think you should make it so you can change specs (and make that "duel spec" cost pps if u want) so that you can't do mage/melee, or cleric/melee at same time and make changing specs costs 50 ap or something. that way when someone wants to go train there attack/defense it is not completely hindered by being a "mage" or "cleric".

Edited October 8, 2012 by breTRYano

[scarr]

nice very nice original idea!!

[Rokk]

Sounds like an amazing idea, I think adding a mage/healer type subclass opens the door for more possibilities of other subclasses, 20PP is prolly a little low imo, look forward to seeing loads of mages roaming EL

[Infamous]

even though not original

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=56541

 

it's still a nice idea, maybe more new ideas can come up from suggestions section.

even though the initial suggestion might not be good, i bet some good ones can come out of it by brainstorming/changing things in the original idea.

[Entropy]

No idea is original

Yeah, I think my initial idea would not work because someone might actually become both fighter/pro mage. It would have to do with penalties to fighting. I don't like gear restriction though, but I do want some gear to be more useful to mages than fighters.

[Rokk]

it has been suggested before about mage class' one of the suggestions i liked was that if a mage class was created to remove the ability of the char to have human nexus, and create some mage type st00fs that use the magic nexus instead preventing people from became to pr0 pk and magecombo