Pears

[Panatella]

It's now a while ago that Burn and Malomeo are the only players (with little exeption) who earn pears.

 

My Question:

Are the pears really on random place ?

 

If yes, how the hell it's possible that today Burn found a pear just 1 minute and 28 seconds after the new #day ?

 

And even with pear finders, how can you find a pear between 2 and 20 minutes after the new #day ? Ask ~30 different players to be on the ~30 maps (C1 and C2 maps without counting the inside maps) using a pear finder ? And then ask Burn or Malameo to come to harv ? And this for every new #day ?

 

No...

 

Again, if the pears are really on random place this looks sadly like a bug

[Burn]

http://life-is-eternal.blogspot.se/search/label/Pear

 

Good load of times it was found by me screenshotted there. Yes, it can be accidently stumbled on that quickly. It can also take over an hour of constant harving to find it.

 

Or even worse, spending 2 hours harving a large map only to determine it's in something unreachable, thus 2 hours wasted.

 

'Fraid you actually have no clue what you're talking about here.

[Panatella]

'Fraid you actually have no clue what you're talking about here.

 

I think it's legitime to ask if there is a bug, don't wanted to attack you personnaly. And, after seeing the pictures on your blog, i noticed that the pears was found mostly under 20 minutes after new #day.

 

My initial question was:

Are the pears really on random place ?

 

Because with all maps (also caves) it seems nearly impossible to find pears in such short time (and yes, as i said and your pics showing, the pears are found in a very short time after #day)

 

Again:

I don't want to have explanation on how you do, with who, when, what etc... I simply feel the need to ask in this section if there is a bug with the random place of pears, or not.

[WiFi]

Yes Burn, you have found it quick many times, but when you see it is at a map that youve found it on before, have you found it on the same harvestable and coord? I think that is the "random" part in question. If this is the case, everyone has been given good information on what harvestables have given up the pear before, as long as theyve read your blog.

[Burn]

Eh, the pictures also show that answer too. There's several pics of the same maps there, and none show it being found in the same spot.

 

 

Short answer:

 

Finding it requires extensive knowledge of the maps, something which I took the time to do over the course of the past 4+ years, not just learning closest-to-sto stuff like most do.

 

Finding it requires a plan, making your way through maps with finders in the quickest manner possible. (Which by definition also requires speed hax.)

 

Finding it requires knowing every map that has harvesting possibility.

 

Finding it fast once you've found the map, outside of knowing where all the harvs are, requires nothing but luck unless it's a small map.

 

 

In a case like the one mentioned at the start of this thread, a lot of luck. 8 maps checked with finders, found it in the 2nd harvest... on Grubani Peninsula which has a ton of spread-out harvs. Pure luck. Unlike the last time it appeared on that map, where I checked for almost 20 minutes and someone else got to it first.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Burn

[Miiks]

I'm sure burns are in random pears... I mean pears are in random places. What kind of bug it could be? Radu accidently wrote a code that makes the chance of finding pears higher for burn and malameo? Sounds pretty... interesting. I just don't see point in making up these conspiracies when they're clearly only random theories without any proof. What I've heard, this has been going on quite a while and it seems it's getting more and more ridiculous.

[revi]

Of course it must be a bug.

 

Think of it:

someone knows the maps and spends time and cash to use his experience to search the maps efficiently.

So it's self-evident that there must be a bug when he finds the pears more often than newer players with

less experience that invest less...

</sarcasm> (for the ... challenged)

 

(and I've seen Burn give up on certain maps as well, WS outside comes to mind)

[Raz]

Technically - the pear locations are not truly random - it all depends on how many harvestable objects are on a particular map.

 

I am pretty sure that the map is first chosen (with equal probability) then any of the harvestables on the map are selected to contain the pear.

 

So the chance for each map is the same - so if a map contains few harvestable objects - then each has a greater chance of containing the pear.

 

Before the pear finders - a guildie found 7 in one map - simply because that map only contained 6 harvestable objects

[WiFi]

Exactly as I thought Raz. So the pear can indeed show up at the same spot as it has been at previously.

Also, I never suggested or agreed in my earlier post that Burn or Mala was expoliting a bug, but rather I suggested that the "randomness" isnt so random if perhaps a pear is at the same harvestable as it was a previous time. {Which totally makes sense... Even if every single harvestable in game could contain a pear you'd eventually have to have a repeat.]

[Raz]

Exactly as I thought Raz. So the pear can indeed show up at the same spot as it has been at previously.

Also, I never suggested or agreed in my earlier post that Burn or Mala was expoliting a bug, but rather I suggested that the "randomness" isnt so random if perhaps a pear is at the same harvestable as it was a previous time. {Which totally makes sense... Even if every single harvestable in game could contain a pear you'd eventually have to have a repeat.]

Of course it can reappear in the same spot - there are a finite number of harvestables,

 

But each harvestable on a map has the same chance as all the others on the map. It is not a case of of last time was a rose in the north - so it will be this time.

 

Both the choice of map is random and so is the choice of harvestable object on each map.

 

For the choice of pear location to be truly random - it would be a case of making a list of all objects across all maps and selecting one at random. The fact that the map is chosen then the object makes causes a bias.

 

The only advantage that Burn / Malameo etc have is that they have (I presume) planned a route to pop into each map - fire off a finder and move on. They also may have previously searched a map for all the odd logs and other often missed harvestables. That is the only advantage finding gives you.

[Burn]

These threads really should be limited to people who have even the remotest clue of what they're talking about. This is just getting damn pathetic.

 

 

Here's some verifiable proof:

 

- 133 pear finds so far by me, not a single one in the same spot, ever.

 

- Found on over 80% of all possible harvestable maps.

 

- Majority of them screenshotted to show verifiable proof (including another post added today to the link above with a motherload more of the most recent finds, including the one complained about it in the first post).

 

- I have a 61% find rate. That is, when I actually hunt (not asleep or at a party or just unavailable) I find it 61% of the time. The other 39% by default disproves all the nonsense posted above by people with no clue.

 

- The AVERAGE TIME for the pear to be found (of times I've tried, including time it took someone else to find it those times) is 26 minutes. Which means, yes, it could be found in a couple minutes, but there's also other times where it's taken an hour or more to make that the average time.

 

 

 

 

Now, back up this pure and utter bulls**t that you have-no-clues keep spewing or for the love of all that is holy, quit this jealous drivel because you simply lack the skill to try yourself. (Having heard this nonsense over and over, day after day, for months on end by every lazy person who can't be bothered to actually dare try to hunt themselves, I have lost all will or care to respond in any way that would be considered nice. You lack skill, that's not a bug.)

 

 

 

 

BTW, getting back to the subject at hand... this is the BUGS forum, not a "I think" or discussion forum.

 

Provide proof of a bug, or the thread is closed. Thus far the only verifiable proof of anything has come from me, and it shows all the uninformed claims here to be false, therefore there is no bug.

Edited October 5, 2012 by Burn

[Burn]

Actually, I'll report the real bug, and the real reason there's whining at all.

 

 

The blue spam shows who found the pear.

 

Grapes get no blue spam at all (I know, game design limitation). Treasures get found without announcing who found them. Pears should be the same.

 

Today's pear has been found!

 

is what I suggest it be changed to. Without knowing who found it, people can quit their incessant whining about me, or malameo, or (of late) stivy.

[SenZon]

Yes, actually. I really DO think that these are not so random after all.

 

BUUUUT I also agree with burn. Remove the message BUUUTTT

 

 

Also make pear finder say hot close or not here. Having it say on what map makes it tooooooo easy.

 

 

 

So to fix all the bitching and moaning:

 

 

Remove the global message "Xxxx found a pear!" and make Pear finders act like treasure finders.

[malameo]

lol.

 

1. regarding time to find the pear:

- my record time to check all c1 maps i do (31) before going to c2 is 8 minutes 11 seconds. it's just a bit of planning and speed hax

- maps like naralik or gp really don't have many harvestables... let's assume it's 200 for gp, that means if you check 10 flowers you already have 5% chance to find the pear.. it's statistics that some pears are found <2 minutes. when i find a pear 2:20 or even 0:40 into the #day people ask 'why so slow'

 

2. there is NO joker-like 'pear positions', it's random. and it causes losses. that's the only bug related to pears: you can't harvest some of the stuff (and pear can be assigned to those)

- there's tons of gold in votd you can't reach

- there's flowers on the same map as hurquin cave in a house where you can't harvest

- there's ore in zirakinbar that you can't harvest

- there's sulfur in MM cave so far from where you can stand that you can't reach it

- that's not a problem for me, but there's sometimes ore under your feet, you can stand wherever you like, the floor/ground covers it from your eyes

 

3. why do WE find them, and not you? the pears work they way they do, and we are good at finding them. DEAL WITH IT. i can't kill casty, should i yell to change it so i can? or change it so others can't? for months i had trouble finding a joker, because before i finish looking over 1 map someone finds him and he moves, and i would have to start over. i'm sure newb manufacturers have trouble joining the ranks because someone higher has better fail rate and no one comes to them with ings to mix, so they don't get free exp. why don't you think and ask before causing unnecessary trouble.

[Burn]

You can't claim it's too easy if you haven't found one yourself.

 

That in itself is proof you actually have no clue what you're talking about. It means your opinion is as informed as mine would be on pk.

 

 

Once again, last reminder that this is a bug forum. Bugs require proof, not "I thinks", something not a single jealous complainer has yet to provide. By definition, if you haven't hunted and continuously "easily found it", you have no proof that it's too easy to find. On a bug forum, proof is obligatory.

Edited October 6, 2012 by Burn

[Schmurk]

@Burn: I think you're taking all of this too personally. This thread has never been intended to be against you or malameo AFAIK.

Both of you have put a lot of efforts in finding pears so it's fair that you find them more than others do.

 

However a lot of people think that it's strange that pears are found so fast. IIRC, the last time I saw you find it in less than 2 minutes, even radu said "wtf?" on channel 6.

So it's normal that people are wondering how you can find them so fast. But I have to agree that it was maybe not a good idea to put this in the bug section.

[Burn]

No, I'm not taking taking it "too personally". It's been a day after day after day for months barrage of incredibly lazy people spewing crap like this, now it's gotten to such insanely pathetic levels that these lazy people who've never tried themselves are spewing their BS here claiming it's a bug.

 

That the lazy mouth-runners have no skill in the hunt is not a bug.

 

As I said, after months of this crap, I'm not responding nice anymore to lazy unskilled wonders who have to waste everyone's time spewing their jealousy of others who can do something that they can't, or won't.

 

It's been going on for months, not just when this thread was started. Channel 6, PMs, whiners on (that troll forum), and more. And yes, it started then as a way to personally attack me, so no I'm not taking it "too personally". This is a continuation of it, though now there's more just generally unskilled jealous people generally whining that they can't find it... when they don't even look.

 

The only opinions that actually matter here are mine, mala's, and as well Josefine and Stivy... the only people I've known to actually participate anytime recently. (If there's more, they haven't been visibly searching.)

 

Anyone else wanting their opinion to matter should get off their lazy backsides and get some experience to back up their unfounded opinions.

 

 

Note that these negative unfounded opinions are coming from people who don't hunt the pears, nor do they even have use of them. Think about their true ulterior motives for vehemently posting their completely knowledge-less opinions on something that doesn't affect them in the slightest bit. It's not about the pears for some, it is personal. It is about the pears for others, but only in a jealous "I don't have that kind of skill" or "I'm too lazy so I'll just spout off at the mouth" manner. There is no PROOF to back up any of the nonsensical BS being spewed by these people who've never even tried.

 

 

So again, I say, yes there's a bug, in that the name of the person who finds it is in the blue spam. That needs to be removed, because it alone makes certain people whine too much.

Edited October 6, 2012 by Burn

[Dilly]

nvm, please delete

Edited October 6, 2012 by Dilly

[Nova]

how can people get better at finding pears if the same people find them over and over and over again, and fast? people are not going to keep going around trying to learn all the harvables and map out a good route if there is no more pear to find. i'd like to suggest a pear cooldown time if some people are going to be so obsessive about finding them.

[Burn]

how can people get better at finding pears if the same people find them over and over and over again, and fast?

 

Ask Stivy.

[Nova]

One person.

[malameo]

lmao.

yes, please add 24h cooldown. me, burn and stivy take shifts on morning/evening/whatever #days and leave 1 day for newbs

have you tried, Nova?

[Nova]

lol yes. i get fairly bored fairly fast. i'm also just not really playing el anymore so don't think that comment was born out of frustration that I can't find my own pears, it's not. It was simply an idea to remedy something that some people see as a problem. There are a lot of insults being thrown around and everyone needs to just grow up and try to solve problems like adults.

Edited October 6, 2012 by Nova

[ChrisC]

No, I'm not taking taking it "too personally".

 

So again, I say, yes there's a bug, in that the name of the person who finds it is in the blue spam. That needs to be removed, because it alone makes certain people whine too much.

 

Seems you don't like being an EL celebrity :/

[Burn]

how can people get better at finding pears if the same people find them over and over and over again, and fast?

 

 

Here's your proof, btw, of the real bug, that people's names get shown in the blue spam. If it wasn't known that there were certain people doing it, that wouldn't be used as the lazy excuse to not try.

 

Just picking that one saying of it, I've heard this nonsense a dozen times.

 

 

 

 

And okay, ask me... Once Upon a Time malameo was the one who almost always found the pears. I hadn't started trying.

 

Then I decided to give it a shot. It was probably TWO WEEKS before I found my first one, and that primarily out of the luck that it was an off hour and I didn't see anyone else looking.

 

During those two weeks, malameo continued to find pears long before I'd even find the map. But practice made perfect (*I honed my skill*) and those weeks of practice led me to finding better ways to checking the maps.

 

Now, 4+ years of actually taking the time to look around at the maps had already given me a good knowledge of the maps, though not exactly where every harvestable was, I had a good idea of where to look.

 

I took time out of my daily grind and power-leveling to mark maps, look around, get very familiar with the harvestables on each. So once my map-finding skills were better honed, I could more quickly start checking all the harvestables on the map.

 

Even still, in the end there's nothing but luck. Mala, Stivy, and I all searching IP once at the same time for the pear, I find it out of sheer luck. 20+ minutes digging around Grubani (along with mala and Stivy) and mala stumbled on it first.

 

2+ hours searching all of Palon Vertas (4 of us that time) only to determine it was in one of the dozen unreachable items.

 

Yeah, that's easy. </sarcasm> And yeah, that's the part (the collective) you don't grasp, because you're coming in here with your completely unknowledged opinions trying to state them as fact.

 

 

Yeah, I'm a damn good hunter. Because I actually took the time to learn patterns, hone skills, study the maps. Every single thing I did to work my way up to being one of the top pear finders is just as doable by anyone else in the game. (Well, with proper inorganic nexus, all harvest knowledge, and harv 95 or more is highly recommended though the pear is rarely seen in dung/amber).

 

 

This is why I call the whiners lazy. What do you do to become a better fighter? Train, practice pk, whatever. What do you do to become a better pear hunter? Study the maps, learn good patterns, learn to control speed hax... yes, you have to actually practice. And yes, all that practice time comes with essentially no leveling whatsoever. The trade-off.

 

 

 

 

And I said "Ask Stivy" because he's the only one of late I've seen who hasn't been just sitting around lazily whining, and actually trying. And finding pears before me/mala sometimes already. He may have a different story than mine, but he's proof that anyone can still start hunting and with trial and error eventually become a good hunter. If he continues as he has, you'll likely see his name as often as me and mala, because he's actually trying. And even the failed attempts, like I just said of mine, add to his experience which will improve his hunting skills.

 

But therein lies the problem, the "bug"... the whiners are too lazy to try.

 

And again, I say, that's player fault, not a bug.

 

Seems you don't like being an EL celebrity :/

 

No, people are using it as an excuse to not even try. And that's all it is, an excuse.

Edited October 6, 2012 by Burn