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Invance Helping and Gear Poll

Invance Gear and Helping Requirements Poll  

120 members have voted

  1. 1. Helping: Do you think it is ok for invancers to hang around doing nothing (for any reason) even though there are multiple ways to still help and others are still fighting?

    • Yes.
      44
    • No.
      76
  2. 2. Gear: Do you agree with minimum gear requirements for each range? See post body for specific requirements for each range.

    • Yes.
      59
    • No.
      61


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Voted yes on first question. Same argument as DonC but I also feel people should be allowed to contribute in what way is fun for them. For example, allow pure mages who can knock down giants very quickly.

 

Edit:

yes on second question too. I think 120+ should require at least a titanium set or steel set + a great sword. Titanium serpent is not enough in my opinion. You can kill yeti/trice/LOrc with a great sword but for nasp and above, you absolutely need weapons that do more than physical damage (radio or thermal).

Edited by hussam

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Voted yes on first question. Same argument as DonC but I also feel people should be allowed to contribute in what way is fun for them. For example, allow pure mages who can knock down giants very quickly.

We're not saying HOW, only that they should, and not just hang around doing nothing. Those were just suggestions that keep popping up as examples.

 

No on second question. I think 120+ should require at least a titanium set or steel set + a great sword. Titanium serpent is not enough in my opinion. You can kill yeti/trice/LOrc with a great sword but for nasp and above, you absolutely need weapons that do more than physical damage (radio or thermal).
Then you should have voted yes here. You DO want minimum requirements. The specifics will probably be tweaked, as I stated.

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Thanks for the answers to my questions.

 

I voted no on the first question, I don't think it's ok to stand about & do nothing. I do agree with what some other people have said, that it would be good to have offensive spells & pure mages included on the helpful list. It would also be nice to have a clear definition of scouting activities so it doesn't become a source of arguments or an excuse for wandering about aimlessly.

 

I voted yes on the second question, on the basis that there shoud be a basic equipment requirement for participation, perhaps with some clear definitions for mage/ranger/summoner equipment requirements. I don't think equipment requirements should be much higher than suggested here, because this may exclude some players from participating and also stops people making free choices about their own equipment (people who make silly choices are obviously going to lose rostos & equipment, but at 100+ I think that should be up to them).

Edited by Cyrano

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I go to the 100-120 invance as a ranger and I think there should be more clarification on minimum requirements for rangers. Do I need to have a weapon with me at all? Sometimes I dont take one and if I do I take a titanium long, which usually never gets equipped. Should there be different requirements for equipment when ranging on the wall and ranging in the field? Such as, crossbow is ok on the wall but in the field recurve or elven bow. Is the crossbow even allowed and if so is it just for lower lvls or for all lvls? Crossbow may be slow but it is accurate. NV in the field is not advisable but on the wall it helps.

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Voted yes and yes.

 

I do not support the idea of being a lazy ass leech, but it feels a bit pointless for me to grab my short bow and pretend to make any difference w/o AP when we only have those monsters left my a/d is useless against. Actually it's more likely I'd accidentally unpin a lil cute bld and cause someone else's death. :unsure: Ofc I want to be as useful as possible and I believe most do, but if we start nitpicking here, it will just cause some unnecessary stress. Imo. I dunno, maybe this is a bigger problem in lower invances, but I haven't noticed alarming amounts of free riding in 120-200.

 

And when it comes to gear, I think some minimum requirements are in place. Though, in my experience, in the long run it's cheaper to wear good armor anyway. :P

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i dont agree with minimum requirements.

 

every character build is different, therefor there is no real reason for minimum requirements, at ~60 A/D i could take fluff with augs, so theoretically anything for my char above augs is unnecisary.

 

a ranger uses bows, a mage spells etc etc minimum requirements bog down what is/used to be a fun extra in EL

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Update:

I modified the 40-60 combat minimum gear to an augs set.

I modified the 60-80 and higher group to include summoners with mage robes and a CoM.

 

Do not take this to mean that is all that could change. As posts are read and discussed, other things could change as well. Your on-topic comments are being looked at and considered.

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Voted no on equipment restrictions due to ti long for 40-60 and the cost being too high for 60-80.

 

Voted yes on the other question because the wording sounded loaded/biased/manipulative. Mainly "for any reason" should not be there in my oppinion. Some people have good reasons for not being busy at a particular moment.

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question, with the waiting for mana/cooldowns accepted, how are you going to distinct between people who actually wait for those things, and people just standing around? and another bothersome thing, if i come across someone fighting, and think "well screw that guy, i hate his guts" for w/e reason.. would you be allowed to or would you be forced to help the person?

 

doubt it's possible to distinct between people actually waiting for mana/cd and people just not wanting to help, if there was.. there would be no reason for this topic since you'd be able to see who did what, and could settle such issues w/o all this.

so how will you prove who did what? or is it going on suspicions and fingerpointing again?

Edited by Infamous

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Out of curiosity, what happens when rule #1 goes into effect and a player states, "I can't fight...I don't have he's and/or sr's" soon after the invance starts (within the first 10-15 minutes of beginning) and no mention by such player of going to restock?

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Out of curiosity, what happens when rule #1 goes into effect and a player states, "I can't fight...I don't have he's and/or sr's" soon after the invance starts (within the first 10-15 minutes of beginning) and no mention by such player of going to restock?

 

I believe this is already forbidden by current rules, you cannot take the reward if you dont make a contribution. This poll is aims to clarify the terms "help" and "good gear".

 

 

Voted no/yes.

I dont think everybody should be expected to help with the very last mobs, let them show their noobness by sitting at the gate. Forcing people to help till the end means 40+ people surrounding the last mob in the 120+, that is total chaos. Yes, technically they can help but in practice that is going to get rangers killed and make fighting the last dragons a nuisance. This said, I do believe 'help' needs a better definition, one that includes summoning (JRats is awesome), mages, scouts as well as rangers and fighters, just not everybody all the time. More like:

You have to help in whichever way you can till all remaining mobs are found and have sufficient people to fight them.

Of course here the word sufficient is ill-defined, but if the people fighting the last monsters dont ask for help, that means there are sufficient number of people.

 

However, I do think everybody should make a real contribution earlier to 'winning', which imo you cannot do in noob gear. I think that the minimum requirements should increase per invance, and make a distinction between pure fighters and people that do other things, by giving multiple options per category (e.g. CoM or CoL or RDHoLM or NV are all ok in 120+). Maybe a way to implement this would be by giving a minimum gc value, allowing people with low human nexus a more creative option. As an alternative you could require a "minimum usage" of SRs or other supplies, like the rangers. However, the latter is very difficult to check.

Edited by Maxine
changed my vote to no/yes based on discussions in later posts.

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I voted Yes both.

Im in 120+ range

 

Yes its ok for doing nothing while ppl are still killing stuff. When there are only dragons left, i dont see any point in make ppl need to help. I had experienced a lot of ppl death wile they try to engage the icies at the end of instances and then we need to wait those guys to come back.

Summoning stuff will only make ppl die at those mobs because the ice will turn to weak ppl if someone that is tanking.

Rangers always help if they have arrows left, if not going to restock at instance final mobs will only make us wait them to come back.

Remote healing is realy unecessary, there are always people strong enought to kill thos icies alone.

 

So yes, its ok to do nothing when there are only hard stuff left.

Altough ppl still can help on scouting/locating them, but walking around imo is consider do nothing

 

Regarding gear, i realy dont care about wich armor they are using, since its for their own protection and if he dies its not my problem, but the weapon/arrow should have requirements yes, cause we need to kill the mobs

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Regarding gear, i realy dont care about wich armor they are using, since its for their own protection and if he dies its not my problem, but the weapon/arrow should have requirements yes, cause we need to kill the mobs

 

+1 the minimum requirements should be to the weapon they are using only, otherwise it will become really arbitrary and boring!

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I believe the minimum sword for 40-60 should be S2E or titanium short as minimum, so newbies have the chance to enter with cheap equipment they can afford to lose, if they want.

 

Requirement for *fighters* from 80-100 and up should be at least full steel or full titanium in general, unless you have a special "profession" like ranger.

 

That being said, i don't think it should be too strict. One might have a broken greaves and still be able to fight with it for a round.

 

...and...

 

Changed my gear vote to no due to the titanium long requirement for the 40-60 invance.

 

Sounds bossy, the way you're putting it. Better just state your opinion - you are not alone with it !

Edited by aredhel

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I voted yes to the first question and no to the second question, but that doesnt mean I think it should be a free for all with no rules.

About the first question, there are people who avoid invances altogether due to all the rules involved. If we dropped some rules we will gain invancers and it will put us all at ease. Hanging around is done for many reasons. Sometimes we need to afk. Sometimes the mobs left are too tough. For the most part there is not many who afk purposely, and people kill mobs that they are able to kill. Of course we still need rules about being afk and "hanging around". If people afk it should be outside the fort and always on the instance map somewhere, and not out at MM sto.

About the second question, I think people should bring whatever gear they choose to. People will bring rostos if they have decent gear, and the people who bring cheaper gear will likely drop db's. If we really have to have requirements, we should get a pop up from Ilie in BH telling us that we are not geared properly, automatically keeping us from being able to enter.

If these changes happen, invances could fail. If invances start failing, people will have to start doing things differently to start winning them again.

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for 100-120 and 120-200 should be steel (which is in theory better than titanium) and as for mages we really don't need mage robe set, it helps with nothing for mages, just adds more mana.

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I don't see how there can be the same gear requirement for all players. Yesterday, a certain player wore a full fur set in 120-200 and I know for certain he killed a ton of stuff which definitely helped win the invance.

 

And what was even better, he made it so lower players like me could follow him around and attack everything he attacked because he was automatic tank with lower armor. I was able to attack anything he did with no fear. In my opinion, this should be allowed and encouraged for better teamwork at every invance.

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minimum equipment requirement will have many people wearing the bear minimum equipment required possibly causing invance failures, if 100-120 inv minimum is full steel with a rad long, why wear BD's and dragon blade, people wouldnt risk it

is a good idea, but is just a bit silly. maybe a better solution would be to have an #abuse function for people taking the P#@* that includes AFK'ers if your in augs and killing all the little things then go semi afk leaving all the bigger mobs is helping, if some one is sat with a harv cape at back of fort unarmed is an obvious bad thing.

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I voted no, and yes.

 

My no vote to the first question is only assuming "even though there are multiple ways to still help". For the end of the 120+ invance, there is no way for a lot of the lower level people to help. They would just get in the way and cause problems if they either can't tank dragons, or can't be useful shooting them (full AP and decent range level). However, as long as other mobs are still left people should be fighting them instead of standing around doing nothing.

 

Regarding min equip - I would say min steel instead of tit for 120+. I normally go in BD torso/cuisses and ID greaves, but if I didn't have drag, I would prefer going in steel vs tit because of the higher armor value. Tit is only better for the heat/cold protect and no -2 acc penalty, and no -1 def. As rokk mentioned, very high level people can help a lot by tanking without armor, allowing others to join the fights. There should be some sort of exception to allow for that too.

 

I'd say tit short, steel shield, and augs for 40-60. I went with that equip with my alt several times and think I was pretty helpful doing so.

 

 

Edited by Quesar

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@Munk: I said we'd look at tweaking per level, and to please post if you have a reason the gear listed for your level isn't right, which you did. If many feel like you do for 4060, we'll relook at that.

OK. Thank you! :)

I took back my "no" on second question because plate mail was reduced to augs. - So thank you for looking at it!

 

Although I could not make myself to vote "yes" there so far because my impression is that the strict rules in 4060 may hinder players to get to know 4060 and invances in general. - So for 4060 I would agree with

These rules are very helpful as guildelines only.

And I have nothing against steel plate mail as a recommendation - because it surely will help! (If you are able to keep it).

 

I would like to state that the biggest problems in the beginning invances is not AFKing... !

Biggest problem in 4060/6080 is team building and bagjumping! - Bagjumping of course - because it tears a team apart. If bagjumping continues even - invances may stop for some weeks! That is the real problem in the beginning invances. - And all restrictions (well meant) just make it harder to build up a team. - That's why I did not vote "yes" on the second question.

 

Ofc - other big issue in 4060 at most is that players didnt optimize their stats for it.

In my own case I just can say that I learned it only while doing 4060. It is possible that I would have left the invance-thing aside at all without being able to come in cheap armor - and try it out… I think I found out in that invances what has to be made better with my armour and stats - and so I stayed a bit longer to fix these things. I died a lot in the first invances… I leveled up to 6080 only after I became at least an able hitter. It was fixed - because I got to know that invances can be fun. And for that I needed to try them.

 

So - I would like to propose two possibilities.

One is - Well. Make recommendations. Say "If you want to win … wear:" (ofc everyone want to win! :icon13: - so one would like to try to wear these things…)

Different possibility - ok - if you really need minimums - just make exceptions. - I would propose something like "5x with less gear than minimum" (per player – not per char).

 

I believe the minimum sword for 40-60 should be S2E or titanium short as minimum, so newbies have the chance to enter with cheap equipment they can afford to lose, if they want.

I would like to add that -pan- is an able weapon for beginners with human nexus 2 but great crits. I remember doing my first Fluff in a group fight with pan - and I think I made the last stroke there. In your first invances its great - and I would like to promote it.

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