New invance rules discussion

[Entris]

There is alot of talk about not getting a share of the drops so why not just make the invance creatures no drops and just base it on EXP gain instead?

There won't be any profit and there won't be a few getting all the goodies but Everyone will get the EXP reward at the end of the invance if it is cleared.

 

Helping would mean that everyone in there does what ever they can to meet the end goal which is clearing all the creatures in one way or another.

Ranger can range summoners can summon mages can cast remote heal or harm creatures while other players are fighting it. Stay active in any way you can to help fight the creatures.

 

When it comes to armors, well, some ppl can kill high lvl things wearing just leather gear and some ppl needs high lvl gear to handle them so it is very hard to decide as of what someone should wear.

 

If the player can kill the creatures wearing low armor and a weapon and does it in a satisfying way (as in hitting them and killing them and not "train" on them) that should be ok because they are doing what they are supose to do.

At the same time they should dress to their abilities considering All the creatures in the invance - if you can handle MCWs easily while wearing leather gear it is fine but if you can't fight a Giant in the same gear you need to wear armors that will help you tackle the giants too.

If you are not able to fight dragons but can handle giants that is one thing you can help with the dragons by ranging them or by the other options mentioned in this thread but you have to be active.

Edited September 16, 2012 by Entris

[Cyrano]

I liked Piper's suggestion of more xp, perhaps the invance should give double xp (though the time limit might need to be shorter) for all combat related skills (attack, defence, ranging, magic & summoning) but no xp for any other skills. Completely ditch the bonus xp at the end, then it wouldn't really matter whether folk went afk or went to storage for a rest or they wouldn't be getting any xp's for their non participation. Rangers, mages & summoners would get xp in the skill they are using which may make them less unhappy about the cost of taking part.

 

My thought is (though I may be completely wrong) that this would require less rules, less restrictive equipment lists, less moderation & hopefully there would be less reasons for arguments or tantrums.

 

I don' think there should be any rules regarding jumping bags (whether DB or drops) or not sharing out the drops, even though I disagree with this kind of behaviour. I think these should be dealt with by the individuals involved, either in game or in the disputes section of the forum in the same way as for any other time this happens.

Edited September 16, 2012 by Cyrano

[Faxie]

By making invances no drop, rangers still are the biggest sponsors of the invance so I don't think it will solve anything in that department.

 

Invances are supposed to be fun, and the reward is a very nice extra. Just keep the rules like they are now: no afk-ing and try to help. It just means more fun for the people that want to participate.

[WiFi]

I vote for no changes.

Edited September 16, 2012 by WiFi

[Rabbitman]

I played a game a few years ago where who got drops was similar to EL. What they did for raids was keep a leaderboatd of who got what. From what I have seen in 100-120 and heard from 120+, some would be shocked at how much gc the invance generates.

 

How about if you are the one who the sever decides gets the bag, that gc is added to a counter for you that invance. Anyone in the invance can see the leaderboard by typing #le. This will add transparency between fighters and rangers. People could then decide if specific tanks were being fair or not.

 

Edit: Note you would still get the gc drops, but everyone would know how much you gathered.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Rabbitman

[Infamous]

if the last 15 mobs are blue dragon, Mb's etc players who do help shouldn't complain, they get drops from them and good ones. while people who dont want or cant help dont get a share. seems fair.

...

 

rangers rarely get shares on dragons

 

+1. It's really crappy that some people are trying to indicate that the way drops are divided now is fine. It's not. For some people to always lose GC while giving tons of damage (rangers) and for others to always walk away with profit because they were the one engaged in the fight and that's how the game gives the drop (tanks) is a pretty crappy situation that only the people who are walking away with profit wouldn't want to change. I'm not trying to start a 'this class is more important and needed than this other class' war here BUT there is a problem with some people always getting profit and some people always taking loss when everyone helps out for the win in the end.

 

if you don't get a share don't help then, simple

it's really crappy that some people can't solve their own problems. no share, no help. see how quick they'll share to get your help.

or do you go to work for free? complain to the government you aren't getting your share? no it's simple, you talk to people to get something, or if you don't get anything you look for something else.

[Nova]

why the hell should i have to ask to be compensated for my help? if you see someone ranging for you, share with them. nice and simple too. especially at the end of the invance when it's just 6 or 7 drags nice and spaced out and you aren't running from a ton of other mobs. hell, leave it on the ground for them to step on and grab a share. i can see not having time, or not remembering who helped you out in the heat of battle with tons of stuff around, but at the end there is plenty of time to see who's shooting arrows for you.

[Infamous]

why the hell should you be compensated if you cant be bothered asking? sure it's nice and simple for people to share just like that, but alas people are greedy and you can do something about it by not ranging then.

 

I don't get why not getting a share is such a big deal anyway, if the rules change that still won't require people to share drops with you.

atleast you get easy exp without buying an arena ticket, and a chance for a drop if someone is nice enough to share.

 

hell with the bunch of bonus exp added for completing it what else can you ask for? complain enough and they might just remove invance.

[Nova]

You shouldn't have to ask if you were obviously there and helping. If you don't want to be bothered keeping track of who is helping you then just leave a bag on the ground for the rangers to deal with among themselves. Maybe it's not the rules that need to change, maybe it's the programming. 'Nice enough to share' is a crap way to look at being fair and honest. I can ask for it not to be 'OK' for some people to walk away with a ton of gc while others lose it. You're not going to convince me you are right, I'm not going to convince you I am right, we should prob stop or take it up in forum PM.

[littlebro2]

The way it is right now, I am happy to shoot a bunch of pk's to help take down the MB's and drags cause I hope they drop big and I can get some gc back to cover my expenses and maybe make a little extra. And I am happy to spend he/sr and pots for melee and the rest of the invance because its fun. If I don't get my expenses covered because the drops are not good, that's ok. At least there is a *chance* to get some.

 

If you take drops away completely, that will take away part of the reason why I go.

 

Crazy idea, maybe make an NPC inside the invance that hands out some free he/sr/pk that can be used for the invance...and if its not too complicated to implement, anything doesn't get used, gets removed from inventory at end of invance.

 

"Iscalrith city wants to help in anyway it can, so it hands out some free supplies to those who've come to fight..."

 

just an idea.

[Schmurk]

if you don't get a share don't help then, simple

it's really crappy that some people can't solve their own problems. no share, no help. see how quick they'll share to get your help.

So you are telling that rangers should not help if they don't get a share? Well, this thread is to try to find what helping is. This kind of comment is not helping at all for sure.

[Faxie]

I think he ment: don't help that person, but someone that will share.

 

 

atleast you get easy exp without buying an arena ticket

 

If rangers would get a range reward instead of a/d, you'd be right infamous but with just the a/d exp you are mistaken. To be an effective ranger in in invance (same goes for invasion/instance), you'd have to stand as close as you can to the critter. The closer one stands, the less exp per arrow he/she will have at 35gc per arrow. Trust me, if you want exp, you'd better of going to arena even on normal day. I will give you an example.

1 trip to the arena will cost me:

Entrance: 3500

Arrows: 20000 (2k trainers)

Total cost: 23500

Cost per arrow: 23500/2000 = 11,75

Exp per arrow (for me): 12

 

But you said this on channel once: Noone forces you to range. And you are 100% right there. It is still a choice of the ranger to range or to go melee.

 

I am repeating myself here but I will say it again: I share my drops to an equal share for myself and the participating rangers/summoners, and for some reason I always have ranger/summoner support.

Edited September 17, 2012 by DonC

[revi]

Perhaps it is totally irrelevant to the current discussion, but did you guys ever wonder why it's so difficult sometimes to get people to join in?

I for one do not go in invance (or instance) due to all the bickering and back-biting that goes on (and this thread is a prime exemple)

[Elke]

While this evolved somewhat into a general invance discussion: what about making it more attractive to non-melee fighters by differing the type of XP which people will receive depending on what they did within the invance:

 

a) primarily a/d XP: they receive a final reward in a/d XP

b ) primarily ranging XP: they receive a final reward in ranging XP

c) primarily magic XP: they receive a final reward in magic XP

 

From my POV it'd make it more attractive to people using the magic or ranging skills and would also allow a bit nicer character differenciation :-) - it's anyway MUCH easier and faster to get a/d XP than any other single type of XP (which I personally find a bit sad). It's also logical to get the XP in what you actually trained on that particular occasion.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Elke

[Schmurk]

I think he ment: don't help that person, but someone that will share.

Yes but if only dragons are left at the end, and if the people who are tanking the dragons don't share, what should a ranger do?

Because if he doesn't help, he could be accused of not helping the team...

 

But ok, then I'll propose the following:

Keep the rules as it is, including the fact that rangers are authorized to shoot only 200 PKs when they have ER perk. But in this case, they should not risk any kick if once they have shot all their arrows they don't help fighting mobs anymore. They can always do some other things like scouting though.

 

I propose this because I think some people don't understand that rangers in the 120+ invance shoot much more than 200 arrows and they are a great help to finish the invance as fast as possible. If rangers were shooting less arrows, the invance would take much more time. And if the invance take too much time, it's not interesting anymore in term of xp and gcs. It'd then be much more interesting to go train on a spawn because in the same time, you'll get as much xp, probably more gcs and you'll take much less risks. But from my point of view, it's not a big problem though if the invances take more time because it's still great fun.

 

EDIT: I forgot to say that indeed, this would probably encourage people to share the drops a bit more if they want to finish the invance ASAP...

Edited September 17, 2012 by Schmurk

[Aislinn]

Ok locking this thread and going to make the poll.

The poll is only going to cover gear and help.

Nothing requiring coding is the point of this discussion or the poll.

(Although don't be surprised if the big drops are removed if the drop bickering continues.)