Jump to content
Eternal Lands Official Forums
Entropy

New invance rules discussion

Recommended Posts

OK since I seen it more than once, armor for lower level instances, DO NOT set the limit as iron set. That set is completly useless to actually fight in, in some circumstances you're better off without armor then with iron set on you.

 

- Little

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

adjusted from

Minimum Fighter equipment:

40-60 |60-80 |80-100 |100-120 |120-200

Augmented torso |Titanium Chain |Steel plate |Titanium Plate |Bronze or RD

Augmented pants |Iron Cuisses |Steel Cuisses |Titanium Cuisses |Bronze or RD

Leather Boots |Iron Greaves |Steel Greaves |Titanium Greaves |Bronze or RD

 

Steel shield |Steel Shield |Titanium Shield |Titanium Shield |Titanium Shield

Ti short or S2E |Ti serpent |Cutlass or EC |Rapier |Bronze or Rad Rapier

 

What about two handed weapons?

 

Are Iron Cuisses and Greaves ok for 60-80? Alternatives?

 

Ranger equipment:

Keep pk arrow/bolt requirement?

Are xbows ok in all invances?

Minimum armor? (of one lower invance, no restrictions, other choice?)

 

Other roles (Mage, Scout, Summoner):

Any specific requirements?

 

The bigger question is "What is helping?"

 

I find it easier to say somthing about "What is not helping?"

- Sitting (at the gate) when there are still more than a handfull (5?) monsters left.

- Watching other people fight/range without doing anything about mobs that approach.

- Restocking or any other absense for more than a few minutes.

- Harvesting

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the point about helping:

People here are giving examples of different kinds of help people are able to offer in addition to the basic melee, in order to show that there is no reason to stand around and do nothing, not to dictate precisely what one MUST do at all times.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

well yes, but how are you going to confirm accurately if someone is standing around cause of no mana? and why exactly do people have to put themselves in harms way to save someone else they might not like?

last time i checked dis/tele or just dis/walk away works for everyone to get out of nasty situations.

might want to think about the people participating. Outside of invances alliances and enemies are made, some just pk eachother and some grief eachother by broding, bagjumping, serping etc. you really want to force them to risk their rosto's for eachother?

 

basically the whole point of this thread is to determine what everyone must do and must bring to invances. it's been clearly said, everyone should help from start to finish attacking/helping everyone in sight. if not with melee then by summoning, casting spells or ranging.

 

My opinion:

 

Regarding helping:

My definition is you do SOMETHING to help from start to finish of the invance. Melee, ranging, find the rat, summoning to kill, scouting by walking around the fort, gatekeeping. Hanging around doing nothing, doesn't matter where, should not be acceptable, regardless of which position in the range your levels are or if "only the too hard ones are left".

 

real issue should be afkers who go to invances with the intention of going afk from the start or near the end, not people who do help out but just cant in certain situations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can't or won't? And we have spent this thread talking about what ELSE they CAN do to help OTHER than actual melee combat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For 120+ steel set and any great sword feels more than ok, I cant see any problem with that, most ppl wear drag armors anyway,and thermys etc. But i really dont see afkers problem on 120+. Sometimes there group of ppl on gate before end waiting last 1 or 2 drag, no need 50 ppl to kill them. And when team is small, i never seen serious afking on 120-200, all ppl that range knows what to do.

Edited by Littlebig

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's simple really, it's going to come down to a vote: Do you think it's ok for some people to hang around and let others do the hard work, or not?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

this bickering over who does most ruins the invance for people, it does for me, Tyrannis and Viper it seems, bet there might be more.

people should work this issue out among themselves, if they cant spend the extra few Sr/He or arrows thats kinda childish, and if they don't win because of someone else that's not the end of the world.

main reason i dont go to often, i can have most kills on my counters just bosses and still get people ticked off cause i'm out of mana or saving a bag.

 

and its not that simple, hanging around not helping someone you dont like is different from not doing anything, the person standing around watching someone kill something might have tons of kills on counters and still be considered as someone who doesnt help and get booted?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have an idea;

Two levels of invance:

 

Hardcore, where you MUST meet strict minimum gear and participation requirements, ie productive help start to finish, etc, but you get a % higher experience sum at the end.

 

Lackadaisical, where you can come as you want, do as much or as little as you want, and get a % less experience sum at the end.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have an idea;

Two levels of invance:

 

Hardcore, where you MUST meet strict minimum gear and participation requirements, ie productive help start to finish, etc, but you get a % higher experience sum at the end.

 

Lackadaisical, where you can come as you want, do as much or as little as you want, and get a % less experience sum at the end.

Now that would be funny to code. How should the server know, what is the best gear a player can/does wear and if a player is helping to finish the invance or not?

 

An idea which comes up in my mind right now is: You get higher XP while fighting, ranging, dropping bombs and so on, and when the invance is done, everybody gets the same share of the xp, which is less than it is today.

 

So you can give the ppl, who are really fighting stuff, more xp than those who just come to watch.

 

Piper

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have an idea;

Two levels of invance:

 

Hardcore, where you MUST meet strict minimum gear and participation requirements, ie productive help start to finish, etc, but you get a % higher experience sum at the end.

 

Lackadaisical, where you can come as you want, do as much or as little as you want, and get a % less experience sum at the end.

Now that would be funny to code. How should the server know, what is the best gear a player can/does wear and if a player is helping to finish the invance or not?

 

Well I wasn't thinking that complicated. You choose which you want to go in. If you choose the hardcore invance, it's easy enough to see if you aren't meeting the requirements and you get booted out. Zero tolerance. No arguments. You're either dressed appropriately or you aren't. You either are working or you aren't. People aren't complaining about valuable contributers taking a minute break to renew their mana. It's not rocket science here. It's only "complicated" when people are making excuses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

pipers idea is interesting, double or maybe triple a/d exp from monsters so people will want to fight everything till the last monster.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

pipers idea is interesting, double or maybe triple a/d exp from monsters so people will want to fight everything till the last monster.

You can increase the a/d experience as much as you want, people with a low a/d won't go melee strong mobs like dragons more than now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can't or won't? And we have spent this thread talking about what ELSE they CAN do to help OTHER than actual melee combat.

Can't. I don't range so there is little I can do other than fight up to giants and look for monsters. When there are ~12 monsters left all of which are icey, MB and blue dragon, I'm basically useless. However I do kill a LOT of giants and nasps at the beginning so I do help.

 

What I suggest is autospawn ~20 more lower level monsters (mchim, achim and giants) at random spots in the map every time a icey/blue/MB is killed to keep everyone busy till the end.

 

Yes, there are legitimate cases where people go in with the intention of afking but for some, there is just nothing left to do other than wander around when there are only 10 or 12 monsters left hoping there is still something they can kill.

 

Besides, the people who kill the MB/blue/icey are the ones who get the drop. Why complain about others who can't help with those monsters?

Edited by hussam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can't or won't? And we have spent this thread talking about what ELSE they CAN do to help OTHER than actual melee combat.

Can't. I don't range so there is little I can do other than fight up to giants and look for monsters. When there are ~12 monsters left all of which are icey, MB and blue dragon, I'm basically useless. However I do kill a LOT of giants and nasps at the beginning so I do help.

 

What I suggest is autospawn ~20 more lower level monsters (mchim, achim and giants) at random spots in the map every time a icey/blue/MB is killed to keep everyone busy till the end.

 

Yes, there are legitimate cases where people go in with the intention of afking but for some, there is just nothing left to do other than wander around when there are only 10 or 12 monsters left hoping there is still something they can kill.

 

Besides, the people who kill the MB/blue/icey are the ones who get the drop. Why complain about others who can't help with those monsters?

 

 

Love this idea! And I agree with the comment too!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can't or won't? And we have spent this thread talking about what ELSE they CAN do to help OTHER than actual melee combat.

Can't. I don't range so there is little I can do other than fight up to giants and look for monsters. When there are ~12 monsters left all of which are icey, MB and blue dragon, I'm basically useless. However I do kill a LOT of giants and nasps at the beginning so I do help.

 

What I suggest is autospawn ~20 more lower level monsters (mchim, achim and giants) at random spots in the map every time a icey/blue/MB is killed to keep everyone busy till the end.

 

Yes, there are legitimate cases where people go in with the intention of afking but for some, there is just nothing left to do other than wander around when there are only 10 or 12 monsters left hoping there is still something they can kill.

 

Besides, the people who kill the MB/blue/icey are the ones who get the drop. Why complain about others who can't help with those monsters?

 

How can you consider your self useless?

 

Did you know that with 120's a/d I tanked blue dragons while rangers pawnt them? Grab a sop, some GHP from lenny, a few emps a mirror cape, take a deep breath and pay attention. You may surprise yourself how useful you can be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, my 2 pence worth on this subject.

 

How about....you get no xp (other than that you normally get by hitting mobs) for merely attending the invance....it could be based on number of hits (either melee or ranged) that you give out. Same for the drops...remove all 'rare' drops and make it GC only then that GC could be pooled by the server and dished out into peoples Sto by the server based on how many sucesssful 'hits' you make.

 

People summoning/remote healing....this could be scored as a 'hit'

 

That way people involved in actually contributing get the greater reward

 

OK, so looking for the rat isnt included here but you cant please everyone...if people want to look for the rat then that is up to them

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can't or won't? And we have spent this thread talking about what ELSE they CAN do to help OTHER than actual melee combat.

Can't. I don't range so there is little I can do other than fight up to giants and look for monsters. When there are ~12 monsters left all of which are icey, MB and blue dragon, I'm basically useless. However I do kill a LOT of giants and nasps at the beginning so I do help.

 

What I suggest is autospawn ~20 more lower level monsters (mchim, achim and giants) at random spots in the map every time a icey/blue/MB is killed to keep everyone busy till the end.

 

Yes, there are legitimate cases where people go in with the intention of afking but for some, there is just nothing left to do other than wander around when there are only 10 or 12 monsters left hoping there is still something they can kill.

 

Besides, the people who kill the MB/blue/icey are the ones who get the drop. Why complain about others who can't help with those monsters?

 

How can you consider your self useless?

 

Did you know that with 120's a/d I tanked blue dragons while rangers pawnt them? Grab a sop, some GHP from lenny, a few emps a mirror cape, take a deep breath and pay attention. You may surprise yourself how useful you can be.

I've already tried that before with steel plate of healing and MoL too. it doesn't work. But that's not the point. Anyway, this is not about me personally.

Edited by hussam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can't or won't? And we have spent this thread talking about what ELSE they CAN do to help OTHER than actual melee combat.

Can't. I don't range so there is little I can do other than fight up to giants and look for monsters. When there are ~12 monsters left all of which are icey, MB and blue dragon, I'm basically useless. However I do kill a LOT of giants and nasps at the beginning so I do help.

 

What I suggest is autospawn ~20 more lower level monsters (mchim, achim and giants) at random spots in the map every time a icey/blue/MB is killed to keep everyone busy till the end.

 

Yes, there are legitimate cases where people go in with the intention of afking but for some, there is just nothing left to do other than wander around when there are only 10 or 12 monsters left hoping there is still something they can kill.

 

Besides, the people who kill the MB/blue/icey are the ones who get the drop. Why complain about others who can't help with those monsters?

 

How can you consider your self useless?

 

Did you know that with 120's a/d I tanked blue dragons while rangers pawnt them? Grab a sop, some GHP from lenny, a few emps a mirror cape, take a deep breath and pay attention. You may surprise yourself how useful you can be.

I've already tried that before with steel plate of healing and MoL too. it doesn't work. But that's not the point. Anyway, this is not about me personally.

 

Oh, I didn't mean to point a finger at you. I just mean in general, The last 15mins of the invance always had most players sitting by the gate scratching their balls. The point is You can be useful, and you can be more useful then you think, certainly anything is more useful than sitting at the gate counting down the clock and the number of mobs til you get your easy 500k xp

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if the last 15 mobs are blue dragon, Mb's etc players who do help shouldn't complain, they get drops from them and good ones. while people who dont want or cant help dont get a share. seems fair.

besides theres only 8 open spots to engage a monster, better to leave those spots to the people high enough to actually hit such things.

 

btw schmurk, with increased a/d i'd probably attack dragons if i was in that invance range, even though i won't dodge it with enough people on it i might be able to hit it and get good att exp. might get a couple dodges too cause of Eva perk ^^

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if the last 15 mobs are blue dragon, Mb's etc players who do help shouldn't complain, they get drops from them and good ones. while people who dont want or cant help dont get a share. seems fair.

...

 

rangers rarely get shares on dragons

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if the last 15 mobs are blue dragon, Mb's etc players who do help shouldn't complain, they get drops from them and good ones. while people who dont want or cant help dont get a share. seems fair.

...

 

rangers rarely get shares on dragons

 

+1. It's really crappy that some people are trying to indicate that the way drops are divided now is fine. It's not. For some people to always lose GC while giving tons of damage (rangers) and for others to always walk away with profit because they were the one engaged in the fight and that's how the game gives the drop (tanks) is a pretty crappy situation that only the people who are walking away with profit wouldn't want to change. I'm not trying to start a 'this class is more important and needed than this other class' war here BUT there is a problem with some people always getting profit and some people always taking loss when everyone helps out for the win in the end.

Edited by Nova

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A bunch of the complaints may have to do with someone losing their rosto and wanting to blame someone else for it.

 

I am a chicken in invances. I don't really feel like losing rosto. I do anyways though, so Radu at least should be happy. Make the map no drop and Radu will be unhappy, but players will be happy. Reduce the risk to rosto and Radu will be unhappy but players will be happy.

 

Try to tell me that the main reason for a minimum gear requirement is not to ensure that people carry a rostogal stone that they can lose to make Radu happy. I already know better gear Might help you fight things better.....but if you suck too bad, the only help is a bigger target than you.

 

When I don't feel comfortable fighting something, I probably won't unless I know there is a bigger target than me near the monsters. If there are a bunch of monsters in one area, it gets more stressful and you don't wanna go in that area or you flee early because something nasty is coming. I have experienced this on 60-80, 80-100, 100-120 and I am sure it applies to the rest too.

 

If you either spread out the monster spawns a bit or break the spawning up into a few waves, people will have less reason to be chicken.

 

About gc drops, if you make it so that for each life point you or your summons (oh wait...the server does not know the connection between players and their summons) take away from monsters or each life point that you give to those engaged in hand to hand combat or for each point of mana you take from a monster or each point of damage you take from a monster, there is a point given with 10 points assigned for each combatant, you have a chance of getting goodies, there should not be much dispute there. You can add up the points, use a random number generator to make a number way above (probably over 10 times) the amount of points that could be assigned, do modulus math (for 243 total points and random number of 87655 you get 175, add 1. 176.) and you look through the people that have points for the monster. If the number (176) lands on them, they get the drops put into their inventory or dropped under their feet. Killing a monster would not have you advance a step. Of course, setting this up would probably take a little bit of time. The cool thing about this is that mages and healers (summoners get screwed due to server limitations) and archers and tanks and those that actually do damage and those that don't even hit, but try to help anyways all get considered for possible drops regardless of how close they are to the monster that died. The drops could even go directly into storage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Perhaps make it that people must spend a certain amount of time in the invance, or they get no exp - e.g. at least 50%? Rules about not AFKing in the invance obviously still apply.

 

There seem to be players constantly restocking - either they don't have enough EMU to make a decent contribution to the invance, or they are constantly dead. One could argue that both constitute not helping.

 

On the restocking note, there's what I'd term "inappropriate restocking" - I get the feeling there are certain players who will "restock" after only a minute or two of fighting, which would suggest they are in fact doing... not a fat lot.

 

I would suggest 50% attendance in an invance, appropriate preparation for the invance (teleport methods in case of death or restock) should mean that players can achieve this, and if not, they are not ready to invance.

 

So, what constitutes "help"?

 

* Rangers slinging at least their minimum contribution of arrows.

* Summoning.

* Healing players, harming monsters with magic.

* Any hand-to-hand combat with monsters.

* A player to stand at the gate.

 

I'm quite sure I have not covered all points, so tried to think of a more loose definition of help - "that which benefits the team". Clearly excessive restocking etc do not come under this. I occassionally see players standing round in a moment of "There. I killed it.", which is a normal reaction, but I think people have to bear in mind that time is of the essence.

 

Even "that which benefits the team" is not a good enough definition, though. There needs to be a clearly defined armour/weaponry requirement for fighters, not just a minimum ranging requirement (300 arrows, AP for certain invance, level 20+). It is unfair to expect rangers to blow 10k+ on arrows, while fighters bring a few essences/SRs and get almost exactly the same reward (I know someone will pick me up and mention deaths/breakages).

 

I would be all for getting rid of drops, to be honest. Particularly in 40-60, there was a certain player (I shall name no names ;) ) who hoovered the floor of every bone, piece of meat and bloodstained panther fur that there was to be had. I'm sure this player had a great time in invances, but it's plain to see his/her actions were purely self-interested and not "that which benefits the team".

Edited by puntise

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×