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even though they start next to it, and the name, there is still no indication for people that there is a quest, which is what they expect. they just see an NPC talk to it and when they see it's just talk they quickly close the window and figure things out by themselves.

new players expect indications of quests, or pushing a button to accept a quest since that's the case with all other games. random talk is always seperated from quest related speech to make it obvious for people it's a quest, not just talk.

 

dunno about the pop-up and #hints, but recently i found out the char i'm playing hasn't been De-noobed. so lately i've been spending quite some time on channel 1.

i'm wondering though, what do you consider "often" ? most of the time it's a dead channel, when someone asks a question it's the same 1 or 2 people, haven't hear d anything related to quests there. and if they ask they quickly get linked to the wiki... which has quest walk-throughs..

 

So i guess that's the way it's gonna be? instead of easily discovering quests on your own and do the tasks on your own (still difficult) it's better if we just use the wiki?

amazing how we can be against people being a bit more independent even if shown the way a little bit, but at the same time quickly hand out walk-throughs for everything. mind = blown

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what are you talking about? it is still not clear to you most of the game does not like searching for NPC's that give quests?

proof is there, like Groomsh said, few people do look, the others get a walkthrough. newbies and reviewers cant find any and like Radu said the numbers are low and he wants to get them up.

What radu was referring to was the tutorial quest, not the other quests i guess.

AND: If you can't bother to find a quest (what IS a relevant part of the quest itself) and "does not like searching for NPC's that give quests" why would you be willing to do the quest ?

I tell you why, just because of the reward.

 

Quests are not mandatory, if you have the desire to do quests (for the sake of playing the quest not just for reward), then your quest begins when you search for the NPC starting it.

Also, you may want to read the "background" information that is being told by NPCs as it contains the story and why a quest is there and often indications to areas where some other

poor NPC needs your help.

 

PS1: there is a rule saying that quest related help is not allowed on official channels - however if anybody asks about the tutorial quest, (s)he is given advice via PMs

PS2: please do not mix newbie tutorial with other quests ... these are two completely different things.

PS3: if a newbie leaves the game just because he can't see NPC with some sign "I have quest - talk to me!", should we really care ? Don't get me wrong, i too want the player base grow,

but not at all costs.

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what are you talking about? it is still not clear to you most of the game does not like searching for NPC's that give quests?

proof is there, like Groomsh said, few people do look, the others get a walkthrough. newbies and reviewers cant find any and like Radu said the numbers are low and he wants to get them up.

What radu was referring to was the tutorial quest, not the other quests i guess.

AND: If you can't bother to find a quest (what IS a relevant part of the quest itself) and "does not like searching for NPC's that give quests" why would you be willing to do the quest ?

I tell you why, just because of the reward.

I think that's quite an over-simplification. Quests give a reward, yes. It's one reason. But another strong - and IMHO at least as strong reason - is that they give "purpose". A meaning to spending your time with the game by doing something wrt a specific goal - which does not involve (mindlessly klicking and) killing dozens and hundrets of <whatever> to gain XP nor to sit around for hours to harvest for gc and ultimately XP in skill involving mixing.

 

As such, IMHO infamous' argument to make some major (not all!) quests better visible is a valid and good argument. Persuing quests is a rewarding play style - and yet a playstyle totally distinct to the harvest+mix and the killing playstyle. But asking the players to talk to each NPC (again and again) to possibly find out that he has a new quest might not be the best.

Also the visibility would generally enhance the awareness of the quests like "wait, that NPC has a quest...?!. Let's check" while you actually were doing something entirely different.

 

I also think it's not true that such indication of "I have a quest" would incite people mindlessly using a walk-through. If you want to do that, you anyway find the pages which give you NPC, their place and what to do - totally independent of whether you now find see the NPC this way ingame or not.

 

Quests are not mandatory, if you have the desire to do quests (for the sake of playing the quest not just for reward), then your quest begins when you search for the NPC starting it.

It doesn't... for the reason above. Or maybe the NPCs which you talked to last in your quest (or those which you were sent to explicitly by name in an open quest) could get an indication - again as reminder to like "hey, you have a quest, you could continue". I can find out in my quest log. But it's lengthy and I need to checkout each of the open ones which I came accross.

 

Also, you may want to read the "background" information that is being told by NPCs as it contains the story and why a quest is there and often indications to areas where some other poor NPC needs your help.

Of course, you want those. And there's no saying that people who get told "hey, quest!" would skip this or find that boring more often than people on average do with the current system. Actually less so, I'd assume. Currently you can mindlessly click through NPCs and see whether it triggers a quest entry... which encourages not reading.

Edited by Elke

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I am new to EL I only be playing for maybe 3ish months.

When I started the tutorial quest I gave up in middle when asking me to read books no real reason why I should do this I wanted to fight stuff only, so I went off looking for weapons and armour and things to use them on, I also wanted to make questings, so I asked on @1 where all quests was and was promptly flamed for being a nub os whatever, which is a stupid of course I am new player or I wouldn't be asking, eventualy a very helpful mod pointed me in direction of choris where I thought I would find out where to make quests, but it not only tells you were to find it also tells you how to do thems, dissapointing for me to see this as I just wanted to know where thay are is all, making easier to know would have made no need for me to go too cheet page

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I wouldn't like seeing the quest NPC's marked as such at all. But I agree that finding some can be difficult (esp. with the number of NPCs that is around now).

 

So, might it be possible to insert some hints in other NPC texts to indicate that somewhere there's an NPC needing help (for a quest...)? There might even be

a few red herrings, i.e. hints that do not lead to a quest ( :whistle: ).

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what are you talking about? it is still not clear to you most of the game does not like searching for NPC's that give quests?

proof is there, like Groomsh said, few people do look, the others get a walkthrough. newbies and reviewers cant find any and like Radu said the numbers are low and he wants to get them up.

What radu was referring to was the tutorial quest, not the other quests i guess.

AND: If you can't bother to find a quest (what IS a relevant part of the quest itself) and "does not like searching for NPC's that give quests" why would you be willing to do the quest ?

I tell you why, just because of the reward.

I think that's quite an over-simplification. Quests give a reward, yes. It's one reason. But another strong - and IMHO at least as strong reason - is that they give "purpose". A meaning to spending your time with the game by doing something wrt a specific goal - which does not involve (mindlessly klicking and) killing dozens and hundrets of <whatever> to gain XP nor to sit around for hours to harvest for gc and ultimately XP in skill involving mixing.

 

As such, IMHO infamous' argument to make some major (not all!) quests better visible is a valid and good argument. Persuing quests is a rewarding play style - and yet a playstyle totally distinct to the harvest+mix and the killing playstyle. But asking the players to talk to each NPC (again and again) to possibly find out that he has a new quest might not be the best.

Also the visibility would generally enhance the awareness of the quests like "wait, that NPC has a quest...?!. Let's check" while you actually were doing something entirely different.

 

I also think it's not true that such indication of "I have a quest" would incite people mindlessly using a walk-through. If you want to do that, you anyway find the pages which give you NPC, their place and what to do - totally independent of whether you now find see the NPC this way ingame or not.

 

Quests are not mandatory, if you have the desire to do quests (for the sake of playing the quest not just for reward), then your quest begins when you search for the NPC starting it.

It doesn't... for the reason above. Or maybe the NPCs which you talked to last in your quest (or those which you were sent to explicitly by name in an open quest) could get an indication - again as reminder to like "hey, you have a quest, you could continue". I can find out in my quest log. But it's lengthy and I need to checkout each of the open ones which I came accross.

 

Also, you may want to read the "background" information that is being told by NPCs as it contains the story and why a quest is there and often indications to areas where some other poor NPC needs your help.

Of course, you want those. And there's no saying that people who get told "hey, quest!" would skip this or find that boring more often than people on average do with the current system. Actually less so, I'd assume. Currently you can mindlessly click through NPCs and see whether it triggers a quest entry... which encourages not reading.

 

Atleast it would lower the amount of people using a walkthrough, yes some people still would, but the ones that want to quest by their own would no longer be tempted looking for such walkthrough just to find the start (and automaticly be looking at all the steps), atleast when given a quest you know what to do next. where to start looking for NPC's?

when you are handed a task you know where to start, NPC gives you clues/hints what to do next which encourages you to go look, not knowing which NPC to look for or if it has a quest at all is discouraging. why bother with that?

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Theoretical question: In a game where the quest NPC’s have a marker above their head, does one bother to talk to the other NPC’s around, or does one go straight from question mark to exclamation mark? ...

 

The Quests in this game I personally have always particularly liked because of their multiple challenges, including finding them, unlike other games upon release only minimal information is given ( for a reason ). The story lines, hints, links and red herrings, clues and humor used in the dialog of most of the NPC’s is something worth discovering. Together they explain quite a bit of the background and history of EL.

 

By adding markers on top of only the relevant quest NPC’s ( even Tutorial only ) will be like taking the existence out from those ( also very important ) other story NPC’s in game.

 

Just my thoughts.

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I have a few suggestions for the Tutorial quest. I've known many players who don't bother to even complete the Tutorial quest (I don't understand why not - the experience reward is outstanding). But I do think the Tutorial quest could be improved.

 

New players start out with extremely low health, they don't know about minor healing pots, and they don't have any healing ability. New players are sent to harvest sulfur almost immediately where they can subsequently die to one hit from good ole MN (the healing sigils and Biology book is much later in Tutorial). New players don't know that they should save up right away to purchase augmented armor to reduce radiation damage, or that Mira in WS sells minor healing and mana pots.

 

I suggest that text about finding Mira be added to the Tutorial chat along with a small potion experience reward for purchasing potions from Mira. The little potion quest offered on IP (trying not to reveal too much info here) cannot even be started/completed until many other quests are done, including one for crafting.

 

I suggest that a new item, a hard helm, be added as a reward. Hard helm would have 3 emu (like leather helm), +2 radiation protection, and be "bound" to the character. By "bound", I mean the item could not be sold nor transferred to another character.

 

If hard helm isn't a viable suggestion, then please give the new player a pair of augmented leather pants after completing the 100 sulfur. Make the new player "eye" the pants to see the difference in armor effects. If the new player decides to harvest sulfur to meet the earn the 1kgc, they will have a better understanding of how to protect themselves.

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Theoretical question: In a game where the quest NPC’s have a marker above their head, does one bother to talk to the other NPC’s around, or does one go straight from question mark to exclamation mark? ...

 

The Quests in this game I personally have always particularly liked because of their multiple challenges, including finding them, unlike other games upon release only minimal information is given ( for a reason ). The story lines, hints, links and red herrings, clues and humor used in the dialog of most of the NPC’s is something worth discovering. Together they explain quite a bit of the background and history of EL.

 

By adding markers on top of only the relevant quest NPC’s ( even Tutorial only ) will be like taking the existence out from those ( also very important ) other story NPC’s in game.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

When you go from point A to B using a walkthrough the other story npc's are already non-existant.

 

And amaara, good suggestion. although Tutorial NPC does offer a free full heal if you talk to him, it's still good to know for newbies where to find those potions.

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I don't think it would do too much harm to the game if maybe the tutorial & daily quest NPC's had markers or different coloured names to indicate what they're there for. Perhaps also the store & tavern keepers could provide extra information about people & places of interest to guide new players towards some (but not all) of the quests & some useful locations.

Edited by Cyrano

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The Quests * ( * daily, tutorial, stories ) ( and their solutions ) have since the beginning in this game kept secretly in game, on official site and here on the forums, its not something to be discussed and I want to thank the moderators for doing a great job over all these years.

 

Of course there have been websites, such as El Wiki or CEL providing very useful information, but also never information is given about the Quests * itself. The information given on EL- Wiki Forums is only available after a member has been approved.

 

Of course there are also walkthroughs etc. on guild forums / websites, with information given depending by the attitude / playing style of the guild master / guild rules which is available for guild members only. I also had a secret cellar section hidden on ours with riddles that might have helped some guildies on their way.

 

Of course there have been other websites too in the past, being anti game / provocative, call it what you like, providing sometimes useful ( and sometimes deliberately wrong ) information.

 

However never ( as far as I know ) has their been a website, ( the one you are referring too ), which so openly gathered all classified and reveals everything and all in the complete Full Monty for everyone and all to see, one click, reducing the Quests * in a, as you evidently prefer, a simple walk from A to B ( or question mark / explanation mark ).

 

Why do you think there are no maps in game ( unless gained via an (again) unofficial way ) for the caves and mines, except DP cave? Why do you think there is no NPC selling official maps of them in game? Sometimes things are made because they are ment to be.

 

My thoughts and idea’s ( and intentions ) about doing a Quest might differ from yours, I apologize. This particular website, in my own personal opinion, even though the intentions of the maker may have been good and honorable, it is – again in my opinion – a direct kick in the face of Radu, the development team ( writers, programmers etc ) and especially EL as a GAME itself, pardon my language. If this is your definition of what a Quest, and doing one in a game is all about, I think you might need to do a re-think.

 

N.

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I have a few suggestions for the Tutorial quest. I've known many players who don't bother to even complete the Tutorial quest (I don't understand why not - the experience reward is outstanding). But I do think the Tutorial quest could be improved.

 

New players start out with extremely low health, they don't know about minor healing pots, and they don't have any healing ability. New players are sent to harvest sulfur almost immediately where they can subsequently die to one hit from good ole MN (the healing sigils and Biology book is much later in Tutorial). New players don't know that they should save up right away to purchase augmented armor to reduce radiation damage, or that Mira in WS sells minor healing and mana pots.

 

I suggest that text about finding Mira be added to the Tutorial chat along with a small potion experience reward for purchasing potions from Mira. The little potion quest offered on IP (trying not to reveal too much info here) cannot even be started/completed until many other quests are done, including one for crafting.

 

I suggest that a new item, a hard helm, be added as a reward. Hard helm would have 3 emu (like leather helm), +2 radiation protection, and be "bound" to the character. By "bound", I mean the item could not be sold nor transferred to another character.

 

If hard helm isn't a viable suggestion, then please give the new player a pair of augmented leather pants after completing the 100 sulfur. Make the new player "eye" the pants to see the difference in armor effects. If the new player decides to harvest sulfur to meet the earn the 1kgc, they will have a better understanding of how to protect themselves.

 

once upon a time there was a 'contest' where players were asked to flesh out a tutorial quest. and the people who actually play the game and remember trying to start it with the old crappy tutorial put together a lot of what you just mentioned. but alas, that 'contest' never came to a conclusion and a no so entirely different tutorial quest popped up. http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=52793entry530050

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My thoughts and idea’s ( and intentions ) about doing a Quest might differ from yours, I apologize. This particular website, in my own personal opinion, even though the intentions of the maker may have been good and honorable, it is – again in my opinion – a direct kick in the face of Radu, the development team ( writers, programmers etc ) and especially EL as a GAME itself, pardon my language. If this is your definition of what a Quest, and doing one in a game is all about, I think you might need to do a re-think.

 

N.

 

Nope that's not my idea of a quest, but that's the way quests are done because players are forced to follow this site.

with the new quest added yesterday, i now know where it starts, what it needs and the reward given, all without even spending a second looking for it.

alot of people were interested in the info aswell. simply because they don't want to search through 39 outside maps and the 40+ inside ones too.

with some sort of indication people would go out on their own cause they'd notice a quest right away when walking. starting the quest on their own and finish it that way too.

 

As for the kicks in the faces, it seems they prefer it that way, intentionally forcing people to do it the opposite way of what they want so the creators end up dissapointed. which is entirely preventable if you just work with people instead of against them.

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"There are many quests, ranging from "Kill 10 rats" to "Kill 20 rats". Oh, and we also have quests where you must look for clues, carefully read NPC stories, and use your brain."

 

guess where i found this quote ;)

 

ok, for me, i 'hate' to read tons of text special since english is my 2nd language and some is written between the lines....

one thing that realy would help to have more fun is a translation....

even with a dict. its not allways possible to figure the exact meaning :confused:

 

if a NPC is marked or not, that wouldn't help me much...so these special sites with a quest wakthrough are sometimes

the only way to figure out the next step for me...then i get this 'ahhhhh, that he means' ;)

 

and to be honest, after doing lots of reading in RL job, well...its not that fun to read a lot about a father that has a son which has a friend that has a friend which has a father that has a wife and she wants a flower or a potion or both or just gc ?...

 

ok j/k , only my thoughts :)

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Haven't thought about non native english speakers, but yeah i can imagine it's very difficult to find out quests like that.

either way, most people just aren't interested in the story, or they can't follow it, so why not put the story there and at the end just list the objectives.

 

example: Father has a son which is married to a witch put a spell on him now the mother of the long lost cousin has connections with wizards from the magic school who require special ingredients for a potion to get rid of the spell which you might wanna ask the library guy about where to find them.

 

then list the objectives: Objective: Talk to NPC guy in the library about ingredients.

 

maybe without giving exact map names, so people still have to think which maps have a library and check.

those who are interested in story etc can read it, those who don't can just see the objectives and follow them.

that with Quest NPC marks ^^

no reason to force people to do quests like you want them to do it, will end up in ppl doing the exact opposite anyway through guides.

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I'd like to see dynamic quests so guides won't work. And again, if people aren't interested in quests without a walkthrough, they aren't obligated to do them.

 

Not counting the newbie tutorial in discussing "quests". In my opinion, that is a different thing entirely.

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There would still be guides.

Unless you have an infinite amount of different possibilities, which would be impressive to say the least. Not that dynamic quests are bad, oh contrare.

 

And again, you are excluding a large number of possible players by limiting their options and forcing them into your preferred play style. If you don't want to see the game grow and expand then this is fine. If not it is quite bonkers; you are only hurting the game and it's future.

 

Free mmorpgs have come a long way over the past 8 years, comparatively EL has not; for obvious and understandable reasons. However if you truly want to attract a growing amount new players you will have to adapt.

 

Please let us know which it is. It will prevent lots of future time wasted on suggestions either way :)

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So you are saying the only way for EL to grow and expand is to dumb it down for the lowest common denominator?

And you are also saying this is desirable to attract and retain the lowest common denominators while ignoring anyone with half a brain because the only worthy end goal is a huge game full of idiots who don't care enough to be here to actually read anything about it?

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In essence yes, although not in such insulting terms to potential customers. Also the generalisation is pretty terrible; there are plenty of morons playing wow but there are also many more intelligent people playing it than play this.

 

You have to choose between what you are going for now or that if you really want to grow. The current system has been in place for years and growth has completely stagnated.

 

I'm not saying a choice is wrong, just that I've been operating on the assumption that you want to grow. If you would rather not and stick with what you currently go for then just put a sticky in the suggestion forum so we all know where we stand. It will avoid lots of future pointless debate.

 

Also I didn't say or infer the things you point out. There's no need to come running at me with a kitchen knife just because we've been using different recipes.

Gosh.

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No kitchen knife. But no politically correct nonsense either :P

 

And why compare to WoW? WoW is a corporation, with countless employees, with the sole goal of making money. Apples to oranges.

 

I didn't make the quests. And as I pointed out earlier, this marker topic (among others) came up when we all hotly debated that "first impressionist's" video and it was rejected.

 

And I don't see why it's all or nothing in your book. Things can change, improve, grow...without dumbing it down or giving up key intentions for the game. You could ask 100 people what they think the best path for EL is and you would get 100 different answers. At the end of the day radu is going to decide what he wants to have attached to his name and that's his right.

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And I don't see why it's all or nothing in your book. Things can change, improve, grow...without dumbing it down or giving up key intentions for the game.

 

refer to the link i gave earlier - http://www.google.com/trends/?q=eternal+lands&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0

 

things kept changing in all those years and do you see a growth in popularity?

Quests are a nice change from logging in and harvesting/train or mix most of the day which are all a grindfest, but really not worth going out and search for without having a guide ready.

they would be even more fun if you get the start handed on a silver platter so you can figure out the rest on your own.

 

and i think you got dumbing it down wrong, the dumb thing is expecting people searching 100+ maps for a few quests with some rewards.

i dont know about you but most people rather waste time doing something productive or be busy with something worthwhile

just looking for the NPC where a quest starts yields no reward, and to top it off after you finally found it you have to do another task to finally get something worthwhile for your time.

 

As for comparing to WoW.. why not? both are an MMORPG, sure wow is a corporation, but they do have tons of players, and it's not just all the money/employees they have that gets people playing. it's the ideas they put in game that keep people happy, playing and paying.

thinking about it you are right, that is apples and oranges, in EL it's what makes the development team happy, players are dumb and only the dev team knows whats best.

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Don't even try to assume what I think. And not all players see it like you do. So on both counts you are incorrect.

 

And Blizzard set out to make money and built a game to bring in that money.

Radu set out to make a game as he thought a game should be, based on what he didn't like in other games. It just happened to make money somewhere along the way.

 

Also, from a player perspective, I always felt that accidentally stumbling upon a quest was a reward in itself; an unexpected pleasant surprise.

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Don't even try to assume what I think. And not all players see it like you do. So on both counts you are incorrect.

 

And Blizzard set out to make money and built a game to bring in that money.

Radu set out to make a game as he thought a game should be, based on what he didn't like in other games. It just happened to make money somewhere along the way.

 

Also, from a player perspective, I always felt that accidentally stumbling upon a quest was a reward in itself; an unexpected pleasant surprise.

 

yes, I am the one incorrect lol. even after all of the proof people gave and newbies/non native english peoples opinion about quests why they don't like them.

idk, maybe you aren't playing the same game? must've gotten about 10-20 PM's yesterday asking me where the new quest starts, what the reward is and what is needed. but yes, i am incorrect and all these people who were asking for the info on channel 6 and PM we're in fact interested in looking through all the maps to find it themselves.

 

Blizzard does set out to make money, but guess what? if you read you'd see people buy their game and pay for it monthly cause they do please the people paying for their stuff.

EL does not want people paying for server upkeep? or so that the developer can spend more time improving the game?

either way I don't understand what money has to do with it, both try to make a game and it's the ideas they put in that attracts players, not how much money they spend on it.

 

anyway i suppose the topic i done, it's obviously not being done. Suggestions will have to wait until server funds run low.

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No kitchen knife. But no politically correct nonsense either :P

 

And why compare to WoW? WoW is a corporation, with countless employees, with the sole goal of making money. Apples to oranges.

 

I didn't make the quests. And as I pointed out earlier, this marker topic (among others) came up when we all hotly debated that "first impressionist's" video and it was rejected.

 

And I don't see why it's all or nothing in your book. Things can change, improve, grow...without dumbing it down or giving up key intentions for the game. You could ask 100 people what they think the best path for EL is and you would get 100 different answers. At the end of the day radu is going to decide what he wants to have attached to his name and that's his right.

 

Lots of the WoW developers take pride in their work and are gamers first, employees second. Obviously they are there to make money but that had nothing to do with the point I was making; opening your game up to a different set of people does not mean that others cannot still play and enjoy it.

 

I highlighted a part of your post that I find particularly hilarious given what we have suggested and the numerous compromises that have been brought up, all of which you have dismissed out of hand with the same old argument.

 

Finally like I stated before, if you want the game to go on as it has been that is fine. However give us a straight answer that this is the case so we can all stop wasting good suggestions.

 

Put the sticky at the top of the forum declaring that "dumbing down" and any other such suggestions to improve player numbers are not welcome. Simple.

Edited by Zaer

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There are good game play systems in EL and thats why people get into it

 

Get frustrated and grind, to level and acomplish.

 

Its a good system for alot of skills. Each one essentially relying on the other.

 

Today, the rewards for certain skill sets have become nullified by the dilute market place

 

New players stand little to no chance of entering the higher echelon of players that have played this game for years

 

Still people linger under the 90s and around in most skills

 

Other than A/D , which incidentally, looks like its where the GC is at right now in EL

 

Anyway, attaching relevance to any increase in playerbase is obvious after all MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER is where to head

 

The economy in EL is geared towards catering for existing heirarchy

 

People would never accept tipping the balance , after investing time and effort ...

 

But from a Gamers perspective like I mentioned there are some good systems in EL

 

SKYRIM has exactly the same mining smelting and manuing skill as EL

 

lol

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