Making the game Truely a Classless game

[Norad]

Making the game Truely a Classless game:

its very hard currently to work more then 1 skill at the same time and yet have enough pp on attri to train/kill higher end creatures. So I suggest we:

Change the pp system-

Create two different pp catagores

Attri pp- get 1 pp per every OA lvl

Nexus pp- get 1 pp per every 5 OA lvl's

This would allow everyone to work all skill's making the system more classless then the current system.

Human- 10

Animal- 6

Vegetal- 6

Inorganic- 6

Artifical- 7

Magic- 5

That adds up to 40 nexus now just think about having all those nexus so u have a classless character, This would greatly affect your a/d training taking that many pp's away from your attributes. This suggestion would truely make it a classless game.

This would definately change how the game is played and would change alot to the game but imo I think the change would make a positive change on the game play.

[Raistlin]

That adds up to 40 nexus now just think about having all those nexus so u have a classless character, This would greatly affect your a/d training taking that many pp's away from your attributes. This suggestion would truely make it a classless game.

I disagree, one main feature of EL actually IS to play classless. And I have to add I got all nexus you mentioned above except Hum10 and I can train nicely on FT with good xp. The thing with being an allrounder is, you have many skills leveled and gained many OA from them, so you have more pp to spent than the average-fighter, they compensate it with more neg perks then

[Norad]

Maybe u like being anti and not being able to sell/buy from npc's or have geletine bones so u take more damage or I cant dance so u cant tank very many creatures at the same time or godless. Personally I dont like the negitive perks and would like to beable to train/work other skills with out having to rely on taking on negitive aspects of the game to accomplish this.

[tork_unib]

That adds up to 40 nexus now just think about having all those nexus so u have a classless character, This would greatly affect your a/d training taking that many pp's away from your attributes. This suggestion would truely make it a classless game.

I disagree, one main feature of EL actually IS to play classless. And I have to add I got all nexus you mentioned above except Hum10 and I can train nicely on FT with good xp. The thing with being an allrounder is, you have many skills leveled and gained many OA from them, so you have more pp to spent than the average-fighter, they compensate it with more neg perks then

I seem to be in the same boat, and have human 10 to boot. Only negative perk i have is powerhungry and i'm training on feros atm.

[Zenphon]

There is a method in game already to get as many nexus as you wish without using pp's. Anyway, most ppl are trying to remove as many nexus as they can, not keep them.

[Raistlin]

Maybe u like being anti and not being able to sell/buy from npc's or have geletine bones so u take more damage or I cant dance so u cant tank very many creatures at the same time or godless. Personally I dont like the negitive perks and would like to beable to train/work other skills with out having to rely on taking on negitive aspects of the game to accomplish this.

I am not anti, neither do I have gelly bones perk. Only negative perks I have are Scotty died, PH and ICD, so np here.

 

Many fighters neg out very early to advance fast in training, because they lack the OAs or patience to accomplish this elsewise.

As I said a skilled allrounder already has many more OA than a pure figher, so he has less problems. Every player has

his own focus how to advance more in a desired skill, whether its using neg perks or get more OAs early via mixing or a mixture

of both. The system is already good as it is now imo.

 

Just my 2 cents

[Norad]

Not everyone wants to neg out or mine over a million iron ore plus much more so u can buy all your nexus. It would just be nice to beable to mix in all the different skills yet have alittle bit of a chance to fight without dieing in a few short seconds. Also unless u have millions in gc its really hard to get your hands on that many nexus removal stones which are currently being sold at ~750kgc each. on top of the 50 hydro bars needed to buy the nexus.

[Albazz]

I think Norad has a good point.

 

To think EL is a classless game is imo just wrong. Sure, it is classless in the sense that you can do everything, but you cant do it all well. If the game is truly classless, why do people ask for tanks, archers, fighters and so on for doing certain things in game?

 

Using the fact that you played the game for half a decade or more to prove your point that you can train "high lvl" mobs is also a bit skewed imo. It doesnt really take all that many PPs to train feros or FT.

 

I beleive that EL would be a much better game if there were things like soft resets implemented for a gc fee, or something similar, that let you swap around your pps according to what you feel like doing that day, week or that evening. I really dont see why it is desireable to keep people locked in on a certain path, and the only way for them to get off that path is to loose all your OA´s.

 

And to say that a pure fighter will have less OA´s then a mixer is also striking me as very odd. Unless I am mistaken, fighting mobs for one hour, has always given me more exp than mixing FE, branch harvesting, mine making, even S2E making! If the same amount of time spent on mixing, was spent on fighting, dont tell me you´d have more OA´s from sitting in storage.

 

Also, a char swipe would be cool.

Edited May 1, 2012 by Albazz

[Raistlin]

Warning: longer post, some ranting included...

 

Using the fact that you played the game for half a decade or more to prove your point that you can train "high lvl" mobs is also a bit skewed imo. It doesnt really take all that many PPs to train feros or FT.

I never said training Feros takes many pp, and it didnt take me half a decade to train high level mobs. I bet I killed more high level mobs than most of the newer a/d players right now. The fact we have haidir dailies and many invances gets those pure fighters up fast w/o much effort.

 

And to say that a pure fighter will have less OA´s then a mixer is also striking me as very odd. Unless I am mistaken, fighting mobs for one hour, has always given me more exp than mixing FE, branch harvesting, mine making, even S2E making! If the same amount of time spent on mixing, was spent on fighting, dont tell me you´d have more OA´s from sitting in storage.

Sure just go on and take the minimum examples like mixing FE and stuff, I counter that with low level mobs training, those dont give heaps of xp either. You can make MANY xp just with mixing, you don't even have to harv for it yourself and I know what I am talking about.

 

Also, a char swipe would be cool.

Yeah sure just go on and delete years of progress of players who arent pure a/d-gamers, for which it's very easy to recover. You don't seem to have the slighest idea how many millions of gc it takes to be successful in NON-a/d skills and I just speak of leveling those, NOT including books costs AND getting pp for the nexus needed there.

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Also your point of buying pp and negging out isnt valid, I have never bought a single pp with removals, only nexus points. Also I still can buy all I want from NPCs and am a lot asked to this for other negged out players (already said which negs I have above). Still I can tank dragons in instances and am a good ranger. But being able to do all this takes patience.

 

Another point: You never mentioned how radu should implement this w/o punish all those players who have worked their asses off to get hydro nexus. He would have to talk to EACH player individually or look at all details of all players to determine how many hydro nexus a player has bought and give him back that pp back to make it fair for all. Only other method would be a complete reset for all players, which again would favour some more over others, so not practicable.

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/rant on

Players just want to have it all, right from the beginning. Radu did a great job of getting lower players faster in a good position with introducing invances and dailies, but still it seems it's not sufficient for some. I know many players who just sit and talk all the day till 12h are up and they can ask for next invance and don't train anymore. Imagine what you could achieve if you actually would sit down and PLAY the game instead just TALKING about it.

 

You voted to get skill points there even more easily, so I ask you for what? The only reason you haven't enough pp for nexus, is that you concentrate on one skill (let's say a/d) and neglect others in favour of it. But that's your OWN choice. Every classless approach requires a little sacrifice. In EL this sacrifice is very little, since with a little patience you can achieve it all. I remember asgnny, a player you could solo dragons AND was successful in other skills and achieved it himself.

 

Today a/d-players still make millions of gc and could EASILY use those to up other skills, but look elsewhere and you see where all those millions go ... sold to other players.

/rant off

 

I think I will leave this thread now, I am a bit tired of it

 

EDIT: structured post more

Edited May 1, 2012 by Raistlin

[Norad]

First off not all of us just train a/d hint my higher then 100 alch lvl. This whole thread was started as a suggestion to make it easier to train the other skills not a/d. a/d xp is very easy to get and I dont train it often. Most of my time is spent harvesting/mining so I can mix essences. I dont do dailies nor do I do invances or instances so not much a/d xp earned there and yes I know thats a personal choice yet u seem to make it sound like we just sit around chatting with other ppl waiting for the next invance. Negging out is impractical just so u can work a different skill or take a perk to help range better so its not so damn expensive. So rant on about stuff u nothing of just makes u sound rediculous when u try to make it sound like we all are not working hard at the game and sit around doing nothing.

 

Edit-

if I'm not mistaken

perks+nexuses+attributes=OA lvl

any extra would be bought nexuses

Edited May 1, 2012 by Norad

[Albazz]

I seem to have struck a nerve, not really my point or intension. The thread was made to raise a discussion about how to make the game truly feel classless.

 

As EL is a game in beta, things are supposed to change isnt it? Or has that changed?

 

My point was just that the game does not feel very classless. I dont care how much money you spent on leveling your skills, its not about how horrible you would feel if there was a char swipe cause you spent so and so many millions of gold on your char.

 

Why would a char swipe be so much more horrible for a mixer than it would be for a fighter? Would it not be even for everybody?

 

My biggest problem with todays system, is that it locks you down too much. If you truly want to become a pure fighter, there are certain sacrifices you have to make regarding the ways you spend your OA´s. I wanna fight in PK versus other people around my a/d levels, but if I also choose to be a potionist, a manufacturer, crafter, or a summoner, I will never be able to beat a fighter around the same a/d as myself if that person is whats beeing called "a pure fighter" in a fair fight using the same gear and weapon. That is why I would love to have a soft reset system, that lets me make my potions, manufacture my swords and armor, craft my rings and and such one week, and then the next week I feel like fighting other people, so I go a do a soft reset, where i keep my OA. but i get to spend my earned PP´s where i want to.

 

Also, yes I would like a char swipe cause I think it would be great! People have chars that are several years old, and thus their skill levels are very high. New players to the game will never stand a chance in hell to catch up to them, and I dont think thats very positive. It would level the playing field wich I think would be great.

 

But I dont really see how it would favor some people over others if there was a char swipe. Why is it more unfair for you who mix, than it would be for a pure fighter? Does he/she not need to train back his lvls just the same as you do?

 

And I really dont follow your logic regarding the gaining of PP. You say that if I dont have enough PP for nexus its because I focus too much on one skill (a/d). If I do, I will have a lot more PPs that you will ever get if you choose to sit and mix afaik. Prove me wrong if I am, but what can you do per hour in exp that a figher couldnt get training mobs?

[Norad]

A soft boot system wouldnt be needed if my idea was implemented into the game. you would have gained enough pp for nexus use. As far as a char swipe is concerned its unfair because those ppl that have played for years myself included have worked very hard to get are lvl's to where they are and to erase all that is telling me that all my hard work isnt worth anything and because I put in such hard work I should be even with the newbs that havent done what I have.

[vinoveritas]

Just to put my 2 cent in, as far as i know there is at least one player in game now, who have every attribut maxed out, every nexus at maximum needed, allmost all positive perks and almost non negatie. That person probably did spend a fair amount of Real life Dollars into developing his char into that level (if he did not then there are others who did) Do you think that those players who spend years after years getting thier char into that level, who also spend most likly hundreds of rl dollars to the game would appreciate, if their work would get worthless, because in the best case they would have lots of pp they cannot use anymore in worst case all they put in are lost?

 

Any change in the system of the mechanics in this game would need to give an way how the bought nexuses and pickpoints are not lost. To put this in a game reference value. A bought nexus costs min 650kgc(if you get people selling to you for 13k the bar) max 750kgc (if you buy the hydro bars by npc) or based on my experience about 10 days hard labour in harvesting and mixing.. A Nexus removal is very rare to get for 700k so lets say about 1.35m gc for a pickpoint.

That time and gc that get lost by people buying the nexuses simply must be recorgnized and put into at least an other similar worth reparation if the system would be changed, or radu might loose a lot of players too.

[Vanyel]

A classless game does not necessarily mean a game in which everybody can do everything, does it?

[Albazz]

A classless game does not necessarily mean a game in which everybody can do everything, does it?

 

That is exactly what I read into it. What Radu meant with the phrase might be a completely different thing.

 

My reason for wanting a drastic change in things, is cause I feel EL is heading nowhere really. These old chars, with maxed attributes and what nots, are in many cases the work of so many dollars its borderline nuts. Also, with multiple owners over the years, to me its almost a unlegit character. One person should play his or hers one character always, have as many alts as you like, but the buying and selling of chars is a bad thing for the game and the community imo.

 

For me, what has gotten me to walk away from EL once again, is the fact that there is no real goal in the end. You can always get one more OA, one more level in this and that. Maybe the majority of EL players like this, but I know atleast that I really dont. So after you made your tiger summoning stone number 1 million, what then?? Make another million, it becomes just so pointless to me. But its a game thats still in "beta", so who knows. Im assuming it is, since nobody corrected me earlier on that.

[vinoveritas]

i play with goals in my mind like the one getting max nexuses only with bought nexuses (which means i will remove some nexues to pp to get them back in time

Its a long term goal that lets me for sure play a while

then i have short term goals like getting ranging to 60 mid range goals like manu to 100

The enjoy and fun parts like invances and instances that i take with me when i have time muse and orportunity

[ago]

EL is grinding. That takes time but can keep players occupied for years. If YOU get bored with it take a break or look for another game. But don't ask for a change that gives plenty of players a shaft that are fine with the grinding and the long term occupion.

 

It's like going to a club that does not play your music. *YOU* change location. Don't expect the club to change its program because of you.

[Albazz]

EL is grinding. That takes time but can keep players occupied for years. If YOU get bored with it take a break or look for another game. But don't ask for a change that gives plenty of players a shaft that are fine with the grinding and the long term occupion.

 

It's like going to a club that does not play your music. *YOU* change location. Don't expect the club to change its program because of you.

 

 

I agree with you, but i also disagree.

 

Plenty of people are bored out of their minds with the EL grind, and do quit the game. I dont think that should be swept under the rug just cause you like the endless grind, do you? Or are you fine with everybody else listening to your music?

Edited May 3, 2012 by Albazz

[ago]

People getting bored and leaving is quite normal. But I have in fact also seen people return after a one or two year hiatus.

 

Also I don't understand how you can get people who are tired of grinding, reenergized by setting them back to the start of the grind. It may do some good to players who compare themselves to the other top players. But after a couple of weeks the regular player will be behind again and has to compete with the power players for ranks and his old levels.

[Albazz]

Indeed some people return after a year or two, but its my experience that most of them quickly dissapear again or spend most of their time afk, until they dissapear into the grey fog once more.

 

Its not like the EL player base is so huge that getting more people to play isnt really all that interesting. For many, if not most hours of the day, the bots > people.

 

I am not saying that a char swipe will make all old timers come back, most of them fas found a new place to hide out. My point is, that I think, that the game, is suffering due to the fact that new players must get a feeling of beeing so far behind the rest of them game, that they loose interest more quickly than they would otherwise.

 

When you talk to people who has played the game for many, many years, do most of them say that they keep playing cause making FE´s are just so incredible awesome, or is it cause of the people around them in game that makes it hard to quit?

Edited May 3, 2012 by Albazz

[ago]

I can only speak for myself. Even though I enjoy our guild and 206 I'm here to play the game not to chat. And playing the game to me means raising my skills to new heights, not going backwards. After a reset I won't stay "because of the community". Just like the community could not keep many of the bored players from leaving. It's a nice thing that adds to the game but it's not main selling point.

[Vanyel]

A classless game does not necessarily mean a game in which everybody can do everything, does it?

 

That is exactly what I read into it. What Radu meant with the phrase might be a completely different thing.

 

My reason for wanting a drastic change in things, is cause I feel EL is heading nowhere really.

 

I agree with you. Lack of a proper game-end is a huge issue. Probably a topic for another discussion, too. :shrugs:

[Aislinn]

I wouldn't want a game end.

 

I agree with ago with his club/music analogy. That said, that doesn't mean nothing should change. But to make the game totally different (ie instant gratification, an "end", etc), isn't right either.

 

I also agree with the falsely elevated characters from buying/selling and $. I don't think a game should change based on those either. It skews the dynamics. I can't say how many times I've said it's annoying to watch bought characters complain that they are bored and expect everything to change for them. (Add one more time )

I also believe a character should belong to one person only, the original creator. If you quit, so does your character.

[Zenphon]

After reading this and the 'hardcore' player post, it does not seem that it is the character buyers that are the ones complaining and wanting everything to change for them.

Edited May 3, 2012 by Zenphon

[Aislinn]

These two threads aren't even close to an accurate representation of all of EL.

 

And sure, there are newcomers who want to be the best yesterday and are bored with an "eternal" game. That is where ago's comment comes in. This game then isn't for them.

 

Personally, I can't see why a 6 month player should be able to compete with or be equal to a 6 year player. There should be other 6 month players he is competing with. (Except those people are buying 6 year characters.)