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Rabbitman

God Please save PK - Summoning Only

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Raistlin suggested splitting Wizzy's Pk suggestions thread into multiple thread's focusing on one important issue each. This thread is for discussing summoning in pk only.

 

In summary of the comments from the previous thread:

 

Problem:

 

Summoning is both op and up in depending on the situation.

 

Possible Solutions:

 

- Reduce number of ACW summoned

- Re-evaluate summoning formulas

- Allow summoning during combat

- Minimum level needed to use stones without failure

- Give summoning a quick bar like magic

 

Please post any relevant discussions and suggestions to improve summoning in pk in this thread.

 

Rabbitman

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Also a better way to level summoning;

 

 

I think this has been said on suggestions thread but:

 

Summoning exp should be gained when your summons kills something (kinda like a/d exp but make it go towards summoning exp)

Don't think this really involves PK DIRECTLY but in the long run it does, this would be a real way to level summoning to higher levels 0-178 VS sitting in Gypsum mines for months. Make summon level directly proportional to summons a/d . .that way a yeti wont just be a breakfast (at decent summon level you make your summons actually help you other than acw/giants/dragons)

 

Also re-look at some of these formulas (Cycs need a serp sword - wtf o.O)

 

#Edit - Also all these ELEs and other very expensive items needed for some horrible summons that will die in 1-8 hits.

#Edit2 - Smurf pointed this out to me: Summoning at the moment isn't summoning, it is manufacuring (stones)

Edited by SenZon

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Also a better way to level summoning;

 

 

I think this has been said on suggestions thread but:

 

Summoning exp should be gained when your summons kills something (kinda like a/d exp but make it go towards summoning exp)

Don't think this really involves PK DIRECTLY but in the long run it does, this would be a real way to level summoning to higher levels 0-178 VS sitting in Gypsum mines for months. Make summon level directly proportional to summons a/d . .that way a yeti wont just be a breakfast (at decent summon level you make your summons actually help you other than acw/giants/dragons)

 

Also re-look at some of these formulas (Cycs need a serp sword - wtf o.O)

 

#Edit - Also all these ELEs and other very expensive items needed for some horrible summons that will die in 1-8 hits.

#Edit2 - Smurf pointed this out to me: Summoning at the moment isn't summoning, it is manufacuring (stones)

 

Couldn't have said it any better myself.

 

Pretty much any well leveled summoner sense the days of Blodoks should hardly be considered a summoner as they typically just sit in the gypsum mine and manufacture summoning stones.

Edited by SmurF

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summoning stones are good because then you dont spend all your money on animal items and get 0 profit, at least with crafting and many and when you get higher levels you get better at making a profit on what you make, summoning stones are the same thing

 

i love the idea about summon mobs getting exp when they fight, would give me more reason to go summon them and also to change the formulas a little, most the stuff need expensive items and makes people not bother with them

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- Reduce number of ACW summoned

- Re-evaluate summoning formulas

- Allow summoning during combat

- Minimum level needed to use stones without failure

- Give summoning a quick bar like magic

 

 

if you will add minimum level to use stones you will stop lower ppls from chance to survive dont think it will help to make pk more active.

otherthing i dont understand you want decrease or increase summon power? since in this post you offer both things... btw you can always use quick button for 1 summon... alowing summoning during combat will ruin pk at all, i atk and start summoning rabbits, my oponent wont ever hit me till i have rabbits... gl with that would make even me to quit pk

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One thing that also should be taken into consideration is the cost. To surive you still need to buy the expensive armors and most summoners need also be a fighter to, forcing them to also buy the expensive swords. On top of that, you pay a lot of GC for enriched essences and the fact of the matter is, you can watch your gold go right down the toilet and for what, perhaps killing a player in a map that has no drops?

 

The fix for this is to decrease the requirements to summon (8 chims? 8 LE and some furs?) And decrease the strength of the summons OR/AND have their strength more dependant on the summoner's level and perhaps even attributes.

 

The fact of the matter is you spend a lot of time on the skill whilst leveling it, why should you in turn have to pay more GC for your time?

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I know some people won't like it but I think that nobody should be able to summon a zoo.

I think that you should be able to summon only one mob at a time and if you summon another, it just replaces the previous one...

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- Allow summoning during combat:

 

Summoning during combat is allowed by using stones. I Think this system is good, but its not ok that everyone can do this.

 

Why should everyone without animal nexus or high summoning skill be abel to summon Giants or any other high creatures? This is summoning business and should only be possible for Summoners.... i think thats what the skill is meant for. For this reason its a good idea to add a min. Level requirement on summoning stones. This change would make the summoning level more important in pk. I would also suggest to add a min. Animal nexus requirement on the stones, this would make sure, that only the best skilled summoners are able to summon the strongest creatures during combat.

 

Summon a zoo: Easy solution: Not allow to summon more than 3 creatures at the same time.

 

High Level Stones rarely get used because they are too expensiv for what they do. No need to change the formular just let them summon more than one creature and they will be used more often.

 

Here is my suggestion for using stones in combat:

 

Giant Spider Stone:Level req.30, Animal req.2

Armed Orc Stone: Level req.35, Animal req.2

Bear Stone : Level req. 40, Animal req.3

Tiger Stone: Level req. 45, Animal req.3

Phantom Stone: Level req. 50, Animal req.4 ---> 3 Pantoms

Fluffy Stone: Level req.55, Animal req.4 ---> 3 Fluffies

Sslessar Stone: Level req.60, Animal req.5 ---> 3 SSlessar

Yeti Stone: Level req.65, Animal req.5 ---> 3 Yetis

ACW Stone: Level req.75, Animal req.6 ---> 3 Acw

Giant Stone: Level req.80, Animal req.6 ---> 2 Giants

 

I dont think this is overpowerd. It needs high requirements and its still very expensive to spam high level stones in combat. (still suggest not more than 3 creatures allowed at the same time)

Of course you get an advantage compared to lower levels but thats the reason to level a skill... to get an advantage.

 

Adding more stones would make a quick bar like magic unnecessary.

 

I think these changes would make pk for summoners much more attractiv because only they can act like summoners now and not everybody else who just buys a stone.

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Well if you do make stones for only people who have nexus summoners wont be able to sell their stones . . and to "fix" the summoning while fighting make it required animal nexus and/or Xx mana while fighting . . Example I can summon heaps of rats on Newhope, if I have animal nexus and I use lets say 20+ mana and summon a rat. Or maybe make it that you can only summon creatures from goblin and above.

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Summonig level is currently increased by making bear, spider and tiger stones. They can still be sold at NPC for a good price. To prevent people from summoning heaps of rats or rabbits it would be good to keep summoning in combat limited to the stones. Maybe add a few more stones, but no need to change the whole combat system.

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First, I would like to say that I am a newbie summoner; well, just a newbie, full stop! However, I have one or two thoughts on these issues.

 

I agree that one should be able to summon in PK without stones. The fact that you currently cannot devalues the skill IMHO. I also don't like the fact that (unskilled) people can summon zoos, but it's their choice and the opponent(s) also have the opportunity to do the same. However, if we decide that one cannot - or should not be able to - summon more than x creatures at a time, that will involve changing game mechanics to count summons. There is also the negative effect that charm will lose value, since it affects the chance of multiple summons. Also, what about regular summons? Is it realistic to say that I cannot summon (not with stones) more than a certain number of creatures at a time? Should I have to wait until some of my summons die - since you cannot attack your own summons - before I can summon more?

 

Having said that, I believe that the 'zoo summoning' thing should be the forte of the summoner. After all, that's what they do. An animal nexus requirement equivalent to regular summoning may reduce stone sales. However, one may view stones as 'packaged' summons, which will allow the summoner to carry more of them than the actual summoning ingredients. The stones also have the benefit that you don't need to remember the formula for a creature while you're keeping an eye on your health. This should mean that fighters may be encouraged to invest in levelling summoning. It should also mean that more summoners take up PK more actively. However, as a balance for this convenience, there could be a small mana cost each time a stone is used. The only 'issue' I see here is that ultimately, some of the top fighters will also be top summoners, and then we have the zoo issue again! :P

 

There is also the matter of non-summoners who simply use stones to distract mobs (in invasions, for example) while they make their escape. I have avoided one or two rosto losses thus. This may be addressed by making a non-nexus critter (rat? beaver?) stonable.

Edited by EaglePrince

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One of the things i mentioned in the original thread was that if summoning normal monsters during pk or even allowing the creation of a summon bar like we have for magic would be to then force all summons to have a cooldown time.

 

If all summons have cooldowns then this would prevent the "zoo" that some are referring to while still allowing summoning normal monsters to be relevant in pk, if you have the skill to summon a monster without a stone it gives you a slight advantage over someone who can only use stones making actually lvling summoning more attractive

 

Note: if cooldowns are implemented then summon schools should also be changed to remove the cooldowns for training purposes.

 

Example: Rabbit: cooldown all summons 20 sec.

ACW: Cooldown all summons 1:30

These are just rough times an actual formula would have to be worked out.

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Personaly, I would like to see the forumla cost reduced for monsters, though only summon 1 at a time and increase the number of "extras" according to charm. I would also like to see the summoners charm level add to the defense of the monsters.This would mean, someone taking a summoning "build" would have to have 48 vitality and 48 instint for max charm.

Edited by Wizzy

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Ticklemonster has 48 will and 6 vitality. If I was to get him the up to 5 animal nexus and start training his summoning hard, it would be a crime to not allow him to summon a zoo. He sacrifices so much toughness to have the build he has. He will have toughness later via vitality and not physique.

 

If a person has the level to summon ACW, they must have really worked hard to get there. Of course the people that have not worked hard to get there would complain about it. Meanwhile, the archers will say the summoners are OP and the summoners will say the archers are OP and most people would agree that it is hard to avoid being a fighter.

 

If you make a certain summoning level required to use a summoning stone, the market for them would be in jeopardy and newbs that need backup during pk or invances or normal training would be out of luck for a while. Lower level invances are much easier with a summoning stone and less people would be likely to go to them if they could not use them and that would affect Radu's brick sales.

 

Some people in the game work hard on their skills of summoning/engineering/ranging/fighting/magic and deserve to be feared in that category.

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