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CherUT

Invances

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First I would like to say invances are awesome, they are not only great xp but a lot of fun. There are a few people who rarely see them. From what I have noticed on Mercator the 120+ is done everyday within about a 2 hour block most often between about 2-4PM EST. That leaves them who work missing it most of the time. I can not speak on the other levels sorry. There are a few from the US, Australia and other places that can not be on at that time everyday. There have been very few done during them time zones. There are less players at this time I understand that. A smaller team may make it challenging, more resources used, take longer and well maybe even fail. I am not sure they were meant to be won every time they are done. Sure its a nice reward but so is the fun of doing them. IF the team isn't as big or they lose is there really any harm in that? I would like to see this set up so that everyone gets to enjoy them. Radu has made it clear they will not be automated I understand that. There has to be a solution to this that would make it more equal to everyone. Maybe rotate the starting time a bit. Perhaps one day early another day late, more random. As it is at this time, them who are on everyday in the right timezone can almost plan on when they will be. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

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I dont know if it is posted anywhere, but I've heard that the only limitation on the frequency of invances is once per day. Tweaking this a bit, a minimum of 30 hours could be set between invances. That way, if is run at a time convenient for EST today, EU gets the first chance at it tomorrow. If none of the other time zones request it before the EST time comes around, they could go again.

 

Edit: each a/d range of invance limited to 1 per 30 hours.

Edited by Rabbitman

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The only possible way to make Invances fair to all, IS to make them random, or player initiated.

I appreciate the sentiment, but it is sadly not enough.

 

Making them random will not work because there have to be enough people that are ready to go in otherwise they will fail. Miserably. This requires preparation.

 

OTOH, making them player-initiated changes nothing, as that is what happens now. The problem is that they are initiated by the same players, hence, same times, same time-zone.

 

I don't think it is 'fair' to hope the admins will wake up at silly hours to run them for us, and then complain that they are at the 'wrong time' for us!

 

I'm sorry, but the world is not flat, so, what might be helpful could be to have people that are willing and competent - and whatever other qualifications that seem to be required - to run the invances on the other side(s) of the planet.

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The only possible way to make Invances fair to all, IS to make them random, or player initiated.

I appreciate the sentiment, but it is sadly not enough.

 

Making them random will not work because there have to be enough people that are ready to go in otherwise they will fail. Miserably. This requires preparation.

 

OTOH, making them player-initiated changes nothing, as that is what happens now. The problem is that they are initiated by the same players, hence, same times, same time-zone.

 

I don't think it is 'fair' to hope the admins will wake up at silly hours to run them for us, and then complain that they are at the 'wrong time' for us!

 

I'm sorry, but the world is not flat, so, what might be helpful could be to have people that are willing and competent - and whatever other qualifications that seem to be required - to run the invances on the other side(s) of the planet.

 

Why do they always need to be won? So what if they fail?

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So what if they fail?

Then they will still complain. There will always be complainers no matter how it's done.

 

See here's the thing: some people can play all day and some can't. When you have other priorities, such as a job, family, etc, you will miss stuff ingame. It's not "unfair", it's the way life goes. It's a pretty fair bet you will never "catch up" or get "equal playing time" as those who can. It's certainly not worth quitting over and not worth the constant harping on trying to change it.

 

There are even phone apps now to notify people when they are run. There are others who ask friends to call them to wake them up when their range is run. So yeah, people who put in that effort are going to get a better payoff, sure. If their lifestyles allow it, then it's a win for them if that's how they choose to spend their time.

 

As to the time zone issue: That is as much NOT an issue as can be possible given radu's rather unorthodox sleeping schedule. I don't think that's the issue at all.

 

Directed to EaglePrince: There were and are others who can run them. I personally can run them but refuse to anymore because I am tired of having to justify my time slot choices, tired of having people tell me when they want them and then not go (and still complain), tired of different time zone groups pitting radu and me against each other and throwing other groups under the bus in order to get an invance, and tired of seeing posts like this.

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So what if they fail?

I'm not suggesting that they have a 'right' to win. I'm saying that failure is practically guaranteed without preparation, as will happen with random invances.

 

Directed to EaglePrince: There were and are others who can run them. I personally can run them but refuse to anymore because I am tired of having to justify my time slot choices, tired of having people tell me when they want them and then not go (and still complain), tired of different time zone groups pitting radu and me against each other and throwing other groups under the bus in order to get an invance, and tired of seeing posts like this.

Hey, don't shoot me. I'm on your side!

 

My point was that admins should not be required to inconvenience themselves in order to run an instance for any group, regardless of how 'unorthodox' their sleeping pattern is.

Edited by EaglePrince

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Hey, don't shoot me. I'm on your side!

 

My point was that admins should not be required to inconvenience themselves in order to run an instance for any group, regardless of how 'unorthodox' their sleeping pattern is.

And my point is we have all zones covered pretty well. (And no I'm not interested in saying who can run them because the intent is not to have the poor person pm nagged like I was) Just because they aren't run doesn't mean nobody can. I have seen radu ask in these debated time slots if people were ready. Either NO answer whatsoever or maybe 2 or 3 people respond. So should he run it anyway? No difference then, to the automated fail scenario. I've also seen people come on and first thing they say is "I suppose an invance was already run? It's not fair, I have to work. It's not fair, they always get one and I never do." And then throw in a few smileys and that's supposed to take the whine away. I know that turns me off from caring if that person ever gets an invance. Especially when it's routine. And it's always the same handful.

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Sadly from my phone I can't quote so I do this the best I can. In the past I can say both aislinn and radu have started invance later in the day. They were very much appreciated. To say if we lose we will complain is unfair. I know of a couple invances that were lost. We burned supplies, lost Rostos and gave it our all. Yes we lost but it was fun we worked as a TEAM and did our best. Sure there are some who would get up at any hour and do them, more power to them that's great. Aislinn mentioned its always the same handful who whine and complain, my intent with this post was not either of them. I can only imagine what you went through when you were running them. Do you think the complaints would be less if they were ran 4 or. 5 hours later everyday? We were told to ask for them if we had a team, but they can only be done once per day. If we log on and check Mercator to see they have already been done we know there is no need to try to get a team or ask. On a daily basis this is almost always the case. I'm sorry to anyone who took this as whining or complaining. Yes it's usually me who starts these forum topics, I can say it is not only me who would like more chances to enjoy some of the fun from invances though. I don't see what the harm would be in spreading them out some, so iwhat ifthere is not a team or they fail. No xp for the invance that day, is that really a bad thing or is it an unwritten rule that every invance must be completed and xp given?

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First I like to say this topic wasn’t brought up to be a complaint or flaming session. If you are taking that way sorry, just relax and read. Your response is not wanted.

 

Since invances require a pm to Radu or other mod who can run them, sorry if you get the complaints and take personally. The rules as I understand them say that I must ask for an invance. That in its self sets the person who receives these pm’s to also receive the disappointments from the person asking.

 

In all fairness (and this game is not designed to be easy or fair), but can the time invances are run be discussed with it being about whining. The invances are normally ran once a day. This great!!!! Now how about that they are not ran the same time every day. This game is a world game and the invances should be ran so everyone gets a chance to play them.

Not asking to see them every day, but once a week in each time zone would be great. Once in a two week period would be nice. Seems the only time I might see one this is over a month is on a weekend and can’t tell you how many times on weekends I see them at 4 am CST.

 

That said since I don’t go on them anymore I am not losing rosto’s and not spending $ with Radu. If my money is not wanted so be it.

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How is this thread not yet another complaint?

How many times has this been "discussed"? Let us count the threads...

Short of making invances automated (which let me be clear: I'd LOVE to see this happen), nothing is going to change. How can it? Nothing said here hasn't been said 100 times before.

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What can change is varying the start times more. Cher is right that the most frequent start times are in the 2-4pm EST range, when most of the US is at work.

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Ok I've been chatting with radu.

Starting tomorrow, I'm going to run the invances for a while.

That means no running around me to radu to get your time slot because I chose a different one.

This is going to be fair for everyone, not the select few.

It's supposed to be fun, not a battleground.

I warn you all now, it will be varied and all levels, and might take a few days to get some decent rotations going.

There *might* be levels run twice a day but any group who tries to play dirty and try to cheat others to get double invancing will regret it.

 

Get ready!

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Well I came here cause I see you're running an invance right now, for once at the main EU time even if it's 40-60 which is pretty rare.

 

People should be forbidden to nag admins/moderators for invances, but yet again I agree with CherUT's point of invances getting somewhat "boring" if you win with 60 people over and over again. I can see Aislinn doing an invance for 40-60 right now and i'm pretty sure it will be a lot of fun even though there won't be more than 10-20 people.

 

It will be challenging for once. I'm sure that was the point of invances anyway as radu doesn't give out free XP for fun.

 

 

EDIT: I won't bother joining the discussion about how to make this "better". it's fine. it just needs a little randomness like aislinn is bringing into it right now.

Edited by TheRealTempest

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Ok I've been chatting with radu.

Starting tomorrow, I'm going to run the invances for a while.

(...)

 

Get ready!

 

Thanks so much for the effort, Aislinn! I'm sure everyone appreciates it! :icon13:

Looking very much forward to fending off your hordes of evil wolves again from Fort Iscalrith's gate once I'll be trabelling the lands of Draia again (in ~ 2 weeks) :bow_arrow:

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Just a comment. I hope the order of the invances does get rotated a bit. the last three days the 120-200 invance has been running at 4:30 AM my time (2:30 AM GMT) as opposed to being ran at a much earlier hour in the past. this means I cannot make them anymore.

Edited by hussam

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Yes, they were being run in a much earlier time in the past, actually for the past few months i think. That is why this thread was started. I think it is a bit premature to comment here about the time Aislinn has run them for only the past 3 days. There are alot of timezones to cover, which means that none of us can expect to see an invance run every single day for our times. Aislinn agreed to try to make it fair for everyone, and to do that, she might need some time to work out a schedule. I suggest we give her that time.

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Actually in the past three days, the 120 was run at:

3-21: 5am and 7:45pm

3:22: 10:45pm

3:23: 9:15pm (A comment here, the entire morning was taken up with the Day of Grief or whatever it's called, and nobody wanted to go then).

 

I'm trying to find out where the people are, which invance has 50 people, which has 20, and how to spread them out so not only are they run at different times, but so that some people don't get 2 and others only get 1 and that one with 50 people no less.

 

As I stated in my above post, it's going to take some days to get an appropriate rotation going.

 

Also keep in mind that only one invance can run at a time so when there are 4 wanting to go at the same time, that could "mess" up a schedule as well by 6 or more hours. (Another comment here: if multiple groups want to go at the same time, I will give preference to the group who has the longest time since the last one.)

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Actually in the past three days, the 120 was run at:

3-21: 5am and 7:45pm

3:22: 10:45pm

3:23: 9:15pm (A comment here, the entire morning was taken up with the Day of Grief or whatever it's called, and nobody wanted to go then).

 

I'm trying to find out where the people are, which invance has 50 people, which has 20, and how to spread them out so not only are they run at different times, but so that some people don't get 2 and others only get 1 and that one with 50 people no less.

 

As I stated in my above post, it's going to take some days to get an appropriate rotation going.

 

Also keep in mind that only one invance can run at a time so when there are 4 wanting to go at the same time, that could "mess" up a schedule as well by 6 or more hours. (Another comment here: if multiple groups want to go at the same time, I will give preference to the group who has the longest time since the last one.)

This is a difference of timezones:

This morning 3-24 at 3:15 AM

3:23 3:30 AM Amsterdam time on the 24th actually)

3:22 4:45 AM (on the 23rd)

3:21 10 AM (at work) and 0:45 AM (3-22, asleep)

So of the last 5 120+ none were at good times for Europeans who have to go to work/school

The one before that, at 21:20 Amsterdam time, was a typical 60 or so people very fast one.

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Well yeah.

I want the "working Americans" to get the luxury of smaller invances too. What's been happening is the euros get their invances with 20 or so early on then get the "American" one too which makes it end up with 50 or 60 people. So Euros get in effect 2 a day, 1 small and 1 huge. The Americans get 1 per day, if that, and it's just huge and fast and not as much fun.

 

Also when I run the really late ones, it covers Aussies and Asia too which is great.

 

So I'm intending to find the right time spots so I could run 2 a day: One for euros and one for americans/aussies/asia so BOTH groups get a smaller more even distribution. It really screws up the american one when euros are up at 3 or 4 am going on that one too. I'm not trying to cheat anybody or make it inconvenient, but trying to make everybody happy and give equal opportunity to all.

 

And people forget the other groups deserve prime time slots too, which will by necessity bump the 120 to less desirable spots sometimes.

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Would it help simplify things and make things more fair if there was a 15 hour cooldown period before you could go to another invance? This would make it harder for anyone regardless of location or employment status from going to more than 1 a day yet it would allow them some choice over when in the day they can do it (more so than a daily quest).

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Ok I've been chatting with radu.

Starting tomorrow, I'm going to run the invances for a while.

That means no running around me to radu to get your time slot because I chose a different one.

This is going to be fair for everyone, not the select few.

It's supposed to be fun, not a battleground.

I warn you all now, it will be varied and all levels, and might take a few days to get some decent rotations going.

There *might* be levels run twice a day but any group who tries to play dirty and try to cheat others to get double invancing will regret it.

 

Get ready!

 

After 1 week I can say that I love the new setup for instances. No more asking Mod to start one, and what I like most: a message asking us to join channel if we want one. Whatever will happen with this initiative, I hope this will stay untill the day we can have more channels open :)

 

 

 

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Would it help simplify things and make things more fair if there was a 15 hour cooldown period before you could go to another invance? This would make it harder for anyone regardless of location or employment status from going to more than 1 a day yet it would allow them some choice over when in the day they can do it (more so than a daily quest).

 

Well, I see Radu has been giving this a try. First with 12 hours and now 14 (as of Friday). Does it seem to be working well for you so far?

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