Remove possibility to PIN monsters.

[Devnul]

Hi all!

 

Before you all start flaming, please read bellow explanation.

 

I would like to suggest removing possibility to PIN monsters. According to recent Radu’s post about update I see it is now possible to do (quote: “Changed the blue dragon AI a bit so it won't be pinnable.”).

 

Q: Why?

A: First of all that it is rather bug in AI than tactic. Second, it makes way to easy to kill high level monster solo, you don’t even need to be high level yourself. Third, it looks stupid. Last but not least, I would love to see teams (or at least pairs) doing gang-bang of monster. More team work, bigger challenge, more fun!

 

Q: How?

A: I think Radu already got the solution.

 

 

Please don’t curse me, just think about it and comment. Thanks!

 

 

Rangers all the way! Hoooahhh!

[Zaer]

could add some quite expensive arrow/mine/spell that can pin mobs in place for x long.

[Devnul]

could add some quite expensive arrow/mine/spell that can pin mobs in place for x long.

 

I don't think we need to add anything, check link bellow. It is not very popular at the moment but removing PIN might change that.

 

http://el-wiki.net/Snare

 

 

PS. The idea is that rangers won't be “1 man army” anymore, not only remove the AI bug (PIN).

[Norad]

If the PIN was removed and the snare to take its place maybe a better snare could be added that last longer then 2 seconds or snare time might depend more on the strength of the creature trapped.

[hussam]

If the PIN was removed and the snare to take its place maybe a better snare could be added that last longer then 2 seconds or snare time might depend more on the strength of the creature trapped.

It could depend on the engineering level of the person who deployed it. For example, x seconds per level above level 30 engineering + the current time.

Edited March 1, 2012 by hussam

[Faxie]

I think pinning is a nice feature of the game and should not be changed for the old monsters.

 

If you want more teamwork in game, I would suggest new non-pinnable monsters that cannot be solod by the top ad-ers.

[arxan]

Hello,

i dont really care because i already killed more then 200 red dragons and got back most of the gc i needed for the potions.

But if i would have to decide in future to drink pots or not and know that red dragon is not pinnable anymore i would not do it. So if that happen we will see not so many people who invest in AP perk.

Next point is, if you make it impossible for lower lvl players (all who cant tank rd) to kill him, some nice people who already farm freddy heavily because they dont need to run for arrows will get a monopol on rd scales. If that is what you want that the already rich very high lvl players get even more gc for their heavy farming then yes your suggestion is great.

If you need to find a team to run to vulcano and then find out that freddy is already farmed it is even more annoying because you organized a team first. At all i dont really like your suggestion

[Norad]

Still I think if there where changes to the Snare this should be effiect enough to do the exact same thing as the current Pin. The only difference is that it wouldnt be free to pin the dragon with the snare as it is currently the way it is. This would solve 2 issues. It would remove the bug and improve on the eng skill (mainly the snares). This might give reason for other player to invest in that skill. (This would only be accomplished if eng skill lvl increased the snare time). Very good idea IMHO.

[Khalai]

Make snares more efficient according to engineering level of placing player. Pin is a bug, not a feature IMHO. Dragons are supposed to be epic bosses, not single person dumb target...

[Devnul]

Thank you all for comments, keep it going please.

 

I have few remarks for some above posts.

 

@DonC “I think pinning is a nice feature of the game and should not be changed for the old monsters.”

I wouldn’t call this a feature, I think it is rather a bug. “Fort PIN” on invance looks ok (monsters doing siege and being shoot at) but the dragons … come on.

LINK1: http://ar.rtfm.com.pl/temp/gupek.JPG (Polish typo on purpose).

LINK2: http://ar.rtfm.com.pl/temp/icek.JPG

 

 

@arxan – “But if i would have to decide in future to drink pots or not and know that red dragon is not pinnable anymore i would not do it. So if that happen we will see not so many people who invest in AP perk.”

You are wrong, ranging is not only used for dragons farming. It is also very useful skill on invasions, instances, invances, dailies. Ask anybody around.

 

 

@Khalai – “Make snares more efficient according to engineering level of placing player. Pin is a bug, not a feature IMHO. Dragons are supposed to be epic bosses, not single person dumb target...”

+1

[DuBro]

i dont agree

[arxan]

@arxan – “But if i would have to decide in future to drink pots or not and know that red dragon is not pinnable anymore i would not do it. So if that happen we will see not so many people who invest in AP perk.”

You are wrong, ranging is not only used for dragons farming. It is also very useful skill on invasions, instances, invances, dailies. Ask anybody around.

 

Sorry you did not get my point. Of course is ranging usefull in invasions instances invances i totally agree. But it will be not worthfull anymore. When you range anywhere else except instances you will not earn money.

Only few people give shares to rangers in invances and nobody will give in invasion except you are in a casty team. My point was that it is possible to earn some gc back with farming thats the main reason people drink those expensive potions. If you remove pinning only the people who know a strong tank can farm and those who already can kill it alone.

[saxum]

Ineffectiveness / uselessness of snares is a different issue than ability to pin dragons; snares are a bad JOKE costing over 100 gc to make for 2 seconds.

 

The solution should be like the Neno where after a period of time it moves whether flying (teleporting) or just choosing a different move algorithm. Having a breath weapon weapon which would target archers when pinned temporarily would help.

[littlebro2]

I think pinning a dragon adds fun to the game! Its not easy to do in all situations. In fact, its quite risky...It takes a lot of practice and timing.

 

If this tactic is removed from all dragons, it will change a lot of things...instances, invances, invasions, the market of scales and so forth. Not to mention there are lots of players who have spent a lot of time getting a character to be able to do it..AP, training and practice at pinning etc.

 

This being said I am ok that the Blue Dragon can't be pinned. (kinda sad, but ok) Its a "new" creature and should be special.

 

Keep in mind there are some players that don't have the luxury of playing with groups of friends all the time. In my opinion, I have viewed this pinning "feature" as something that serves that type of player.

 

However, I also like the idea of a snare being improved to allow a single character to kill a dragon. It definitely would add to the value of engineering. So maybe this could be an answer to keeping the "pinning" around...

 

Please don't completely remove the ability for other dragons to be pinned without some reasonable alternative!

 

thanks!

[Raz]

Pinning has long been there - and there has been a mob that will not pin for a long time.

There is nothing new in this update.

 

I think this topic has perhaps brought up some very good points...

1) Make the snare a lot more effective or perhaps add a 'barricade' there is such a book!

2) Give the monster a chance to break the pin every time it is shot, or after a certain period of not moving - so rangers can still solo a monster

 

As for should pinning be removed... I think it should be modified in some way - yes it looks silly, however when you see bethel cliffs it does look impressive.

 

However if it were removed... I have no idea how on earth the last remaining dragons from invasions will be cleared. It was a team of rangers that took out the last 67 monsters in the last invasion (and they greatly enjoyed that). Remove pinning and there is no way that would be done - and the top fighters have already shown that once the 'profitable' monsters have been killed - they leave the black / ice dragons.

[Vanyel]

Personally, I think it's an absurd monsters are possible to solo by rangers who do nothing but stand and shoot. Sure, they should be able to solo at least some monsters in game, but I think it should require some effort (e.g. kiting in some other games) - they should be forced to take a few steps back every 2-3 shots at the very least.

 

Side note, monsters like dragons should not be possible to solo. Period.

[Devnul]

My dear Lords and Ladies, let’s continue the topic.

 

I really think that the PIN as it is (AI bug) should be removed/fixed. Please don’t call it a tactic or feature since I highly doubt it was implemented on purpose. However I understand it is cool to use it (hell, I can say that my ranger was raised in Red Dragon's cave) and rangers would like to have some kind of way to solo strong monsters, but …

 

 

1. How about using mentioned snare? Cost for single trap like that is (according to Saxum) 100gc, so this is not much. But the time (2 seconds) for which monster is trapped is way too low. How about making snare to work 10 seconds? Well trained single ranger can kill RD in around 1 minute. So he/she will have to use 6-8 snares to kill a dragon. Another plus is that capturing monster with snare shouldn’t be a problem. Lay it on ground, shoot at target, when you hit and our pray starts to charge just run/tele out of there. When monster is trapped then you have 10s to get back (or not, depends if you can hit from distance, another plus I think) and use the time while it struggles with snare. What do you think?

2. Dragons should have ability to break snare (same way like they were ‘equipped’ with Smite Summon spell). Why? Because they are epic monsters! Please stop crying that you won’t be able to farm them so easy like you can do it now, this is not an argument. Before ranging was implemented and PIN bug discovered it was really hard to kill these beasts. Now … a newbie with 60OA and load of PKs can kill it solo (No! you won’t farm GC that way, but still you can kill it!).

3. If possible then “Wall PIN” like in Bethel or invance (fort) should be left. There aren’t a lot of places to use it and it also doesn’t look so stupid like “Bone PIN” (for example). It rather looks cool to see all these monsters doing a siege.

4. Modernized snare can also be used for other purposes, Neno, PK etc.:

 

 

So what do you think?

Edited March 2, 2012 by Devnul

[SenZon]

Make snares cheaper, easier to use and last longer

[elg3neral]

Remove pin (bug) +1,

Make snares more efficient +1,

 

I didnt leveled my ranging levels on pinned mobs. ANd bought my a/p by harving toadies etc..

 

- Red drags, they are pr0 mobs and pr0 fighers/rangers should kill them.

And when you are a pr0 ranger you can kill them solo without pinning.

Its ofc not that easy as pinning but it it's doable, I think thats how it should be.

This also works ok on the black.

(I'm not talking about poisen calltropes but just using pk arr and running around)

I dunno how hard or time consuming it is for an icy, i only killed them while it was pinned.

I pinned and killed a red in his cave under the 1 min, that has nothing to do with reality not even in fantasy .

 

- About the drags left in invasion has more to do with that reds are worth 4x more then the rest.

And I dont get it wat the bethel cliff/invasion has to do with this topic.

 

[Faxie]

undo pinning old monsters -1

 

Let's keep the current pinning intact and change it for newer monsters. This way people with lower range skills than you can have the same opportunities you had when you started out ranging.

[Aislinn]

undo pinning old monsters -1

 

Let's keep the current pinning intact and change it for newer monsters. This way people with lower range skills than you can have the same opportunities you had when you started out ranging.

 

It's a beta game. That argument only hinders progress and has done so with other issues.

[Faxie]

undo pinning old monsters -1

 

Let's keep the current pinning intact and change it for newer monsters. This way people with lower range skills than you can have the same opportunities you had when you started out ranging.

 

It's a beta game. That argument only hinders progress and has done so with other issues.

 

I really don't see my argument will hinder any game progress, it even asks for progress with new unpinnable mosters.

[Devnul]

My dear Faxie, please try to understand. Removing PIN as it is (a bug) will progress our beloved EL. Red Dragon was not created for farming, especially not to be farmed by low level characters. Same story about Ice Dragon.

We need to accept the true. Time to stop abusing that poor ‘little’ creature.

 

Anyway, this is my last post in this thread, I will leave it now for y’all to discuss. I just hope that game developers and Radu will take my suggestion under consideration.

Thank you, have fun y’all.

 

 

Rangers all the way! Hoooahhhh!

[SenZon]

undo pinning old monsters -1Let's keep the current pinning intact and change it for newer monsters. This way people with lower range skills than you can have the same opportunities you had when you started out ranging.

It's a beta game. That argument only hinders progress and has done so with other issues.

I really don't see my argument will hinder any game progress, it even asks for progress with new unpinnable mosters.

Maybe add new strategic towers for ranging? (Famous NC wall) Should help with removing PIN. And for the snares maybe make it AoE according to eng level higher the level bigger the snare AoE IE; 4x4 -> 6x6 squares etc.

[DuBro]

My dear Lords and Ladies, let’s continue the topic.

 

I really think that the PIN as it is (AI bug) should be removed/fixed. Please don’t call it a tactic or feature since I highly doubt it was implemented on purpose. However I understand it is cool to use it (hell, I can say that my ranger was raised in Red Dragon's cave) and rangers would like to have some kind of way to solo strong monsters, but …

 

 

1. How about using mentioned snare? Cost for single trap like that is (according to Saxum) 100gc, so this is not much. But the time (2 seconds) for which monster is trapped is way too low. How about making snare to work 10 seconds? Well trained single ranger can kill RD in around 1 minute. So he/she will have to use 6-8 snares to kill a dragon. Another plus is that capturing monster with snare shouldn’t be a problem. Lay it on ground, shoot at target, when you hit and our pray starts to charge just run/tele out of there. When monster is trapped then you have 10s to get back (or not, depends if you can hit from distance, another plus I think) and use the time while it struggles with snare. What do you think?

2. Dragons should have ability to break snare (same way like they were ‘equipped’ with Smite Summon spell). Why? Because they are epic monsters! Please stop crying that you won’t be able to farm them so easy like you can do it now, this is not an argument. Before ranging was implemented and PIN bug discovered it was really hard to kill these beasts. Now … a newbie with 60OA and load of PKs can kill it solo (No! you won’t farm GC that way, but still you can kill it!).

3. If possible then “Wall PIN” like in Bethel or invance (fort) should be left. There aren’t a lot of places to use it and it also doesn’t look so stupid like “Bone PIN” (for example). It rather looks cool to see all these monsters doing a siege.

4. Modernized snare can also be used for other purposes, Neno, PK etc.:

 

 

So what do you think?

 

if pin will be removed it wont be worth to kill rd's for rangers anymore, since the top 30 a/d guys will farm it and keep the rd scale price the same