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dipi

Action point - Writting books

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Hi, i was thinking that to have a good level for writting an experience book is great and motivating for keep leveling up. Though IMO the need of huge Actions Points can make someone with good level on the skill not able to write them, or make them to change their build for increase their maximum APs (+rationality).

 

I see this a bit unfair for those who worked too hard in getting a pr0 level in a mixing skill and feel confortable with their attributes build.

 

So, I suggest to make Action Points for mixing, work like food does. I mean, you are able to mix IF your APs are positive (no requiere a max). If you mix the book succesfully, then you lose X (450 for Tailoring for example, wich is a minimum of 23 rationality on your build) APs going to negative (if you had +10 AP, they go to -440).

 

Note that the time consumed for gain the APs for write another book again will be the same.

 

Regards.

 

Dipi.

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I like this suggestion very much :icon13: :icon13:

 

Making AcP work like food (with negative level) is a good idea. This way, ppl with a different (more fighter orientated) build AND high

mixing skills will be able to make books too, at the same AcP cost and waiting time. As allrounder I always want be able to do anything in game.

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If this was to be implemented, then some negative effect would be required while your acp is negative. Otherwise it's simply giving you free action point slots.

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If this was to be implemented, then some negative effect would be required while your acp is negative. Otherwise it's simply giving you free action point slots.

Ask for a minimum of 80 AP gained (newbie 4 rationality) for being able to mix...

 

Or double the time needed for gain AP in the negative zone...

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If this was to be implemented, then some negative effect would be required while your acp is negative. Otherwise it's simply giving you free action point slots.

Ask for a minimum of 80 AP gained (newbie 4 rationality) for being able to mix...

 

Or double the time needed for gain AP in the negative zone...

Double the time needed to gain AP while it is negative? That sounds fair to me.

 

Like with food, we should not be allowed to do a task that uses action points when we have less than 1.

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At a first glance I liked this idea.

 

Yet after thinking about it for several days, it rather looks like another of those attempts to make tightly fighter oriented builds being able to do most of things in the game without the need of spending their pps on the right attributes.

 

Raistlin with his statement

This way, ppl with a different (more fighter orientated) build AND high mixing skills will be able to make books too

pointed me to the following:

Imagine a (pre-)medieval knight, i.e. one of Artus' knights. Clearly a fighter oriented build, some of them might even be able to do some awesome
manufacturing
, let's say for example building nice sword's or repairing armors. Yet, most of them were not able to read anything, much more they won't even know how a quill looks like, or even how to use it properly.

Would you really read a book from one of them for other reasons than the sake of joy? Far more read a book from one of them to learn something from it? I somehow doubt this.

 

Well, this imagination might be too closely tight to reality for some people, arguing that it's still a game. But lately I read a few ideas which go strictly into the direction of making fighter builds the only viable builds in EL, while all other skills fall more and more apart. I rather discourage such a development, just because for me, the richness of skills and the possibilities to develop each of them is something, that makes EL quite unique in the world of MMO's. There a uncountable MMO's which mainly serve the purpose of fighting, I don't see a reason why EL should sacrifice it's uniqueness and go into this direction as well.

 

If someone wants restrict him- oder herself to a pure fighter, there's nothing to have against it. But then, they should stick themselves to their chosen path (or re-choose, i.e. reset).

 

 

If this was to be implemented, then some negative effect would be required while your acp is negative. Otherwise it's simply giving you free action point slots.

I would recommend a rather harsh negative effect. Just look at the word ActionPoint... I imagine someone with negative acp not being able of doing anything but sit around, even movement should be slowed down, any action should be impossible, because, hey, I don't have the necessary resources to do some action, no matter what kind of action. Even harvesting and reading should IMHO stop.

 

Just my humble opinion.

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@Malaclypse what a selfish and closed mind...

 

Imagine a (pre-)medieval knight fighting a blue dragon....

 

Oh!!! Wait!! dragons never existed!!

 

Roleplay is an important area in this kind of games... But the strong point of EL is the classless system, where you can focus and/or switch the skills you want to do. So, why cant a fighter write a book?

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At a first glance I liked this idea.

 

Yet after thinking about it for several days, it rather looks like another of those attempts to make tightly fighter oriented builds being able to do most of things in the game without the need of spending their pps on the right attributes.

 

By no means could I be called a fighter build - top 100 in all skills bar harvest - 28 pp in nexus.... yet I don't have enough AcPo

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Raistlin with his statement

This way, ppl with a different (more fighter orientated) build AND high mixing skills will be able to make books too

pointed me to the following:

Imagine a (pre-)medieval knight, i.e. one of Artus' knights. Clearly a fighter oriented build, some of them might even be able to do some awesome
manufacturing
, let's say for example building nice sword's or repairing armors. Yet, most of them were not able to read anything, much more they won't even know how a quill looks like, or even how to use it properly.

Would you really read a book from one of them for other reasons than the sake of joy? Far more read a book from one of them to learn something from it? I somehow doubt this.

Dont forget you still need a level of about 100 in that skill to make a book, allrounders already have invested many nexus and level grinding.

So what's wrong with that idea? An allrounder will almost never be able to compete with an allfighter build of the same level (different pp distribution, negative perks etc.)

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I am just wondering whether it's open-minded to call someone close-minded, just because he has a different opinion then you O.o

 

But the strong point of EL is the classless system

 

That was exactly my speech with my post (I don't repost it here, go ahead and read it again, in case you missed it). There's no point why a well-rounded fighter should not be able to write a book. But if someone has missed to put enough PPs in the correct places to have the knowledge about riding books (i.e. too less acp because of a too low rationality), I don't see a reason why they should be able to write books themselves instead of just buy them from someone who has trained more in this field.

 

IMHO this idea will unbalance the game further in favor of fighter builds, but I'm starting to repeat myself...

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At a first glance I liked this idea.

 

Yet after thinking about it for several days, it rather looks like another of those attempts to make tightly fighter oriented builds being able to do most of things in the game without the need of spending their pps on the right attributes.

 

By no means could I be called a fighter build - top 100 in all skills bar harvest - 28 pp in nexus.... yet I don't have enough AcPo

 

Raz, this unfortunately doesn't say anything about the distributing of your attributes, and therefore, about your action points. Because of privacy mode, I can't validate your claim, although there's no point in not believing you ;)

 

Personally I think, what makes a fighter build or not is the distribution of pickpoints over the attributes. For action points only rationality is important. We all know rat~(rea+wil)/2. Most fighters tend to put a reasonable amount of pps into reasoning, but avoid to put anything into will. That's where their 'low' action point margin comes from. Beside some very specific builds, like dedicated mages or summoners, mixer only builds and maybe a few others, Will seems not of much use for most of the players. So most of them will have rather low than high rationality.

 

Iff el-wiki is right, then acp=20*rat. For now, I omit the BB of Tailoring and use the Manufacturing book which needs 250 acp, resulting in 13 needed rationality. If one leaves will at 4, this would mean a total of 22 (or 18 pps) into reasoning. I wonder if this is really too much worth for even a pure fighter to consider.

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Well... I'll expose an example that makes clear why I think the current system is unfair.

 

Lets imagine a simple situation with 2 players, player A has only 4 Rationality (Reas and Will 4) and player B has 14 Rationality (wich makes 260 maximum Action Point, enought for make a Manufacturing Exp Book).

 

Both players level from 0 to lvl 100 Manu, only making leather helm in the Manu School on #Day of schools.

 

Let's remember that Rationality increases the amount of experience you receive. So player A obtains 47exp from leather helms, meanwhile player B obtains 52exp per helm.

 

From lvl 0 to lvl 100 you need 437.721.397 total experience. Player A would need a total of 3104407 helms in the school, and player B would need 2805906 helms. So player A made ~300k more helms that player B for reach level 100.

 

Now seeing that, how would someone think that player B (lets say a non-fighter build) deserves to make a book and player A (lets say a fighter build) doesn't, when the effort made from A was bigger than B???

Edited by dipi

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Now seeing that, how would someone think that player B (lets say a non-fighter build) deserves to make a book and player A (lets say a fighter build) doesn't, when the effort made from A was bigger than B???

 

Player A gets his reward having more p/c/i/v than player B.

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Dipi, I honestly don't understand why you cannot simply accept that there are people who don't feel well with your idea. We can argue back and forth and will never come to point. It was my error having started arguing, where I only should have stated that I don't support this idea. I apologize for this.

 

For your example. I don't want to tread on someone's toes, but I think none of the two characters deserves being able to make a book. From one point of view, they both degraded themselves to some stupid machines doing the same thing ~3 millions times over and over again, just because it's the most economic way to level. The game is repetitive enough in itself, to not having the need to force myself in even more repetitions. If someone likes this style of playing, it's up to them, I simply can't enjoy it, the built-in repetition while going up the skill ladder is enough, with some items bringing in a natural break and being used for leveling more than others.

From another point of view, none of them has read any higher level item books beyond leather helmet (I think that's a valid assumption, why should someone invest a lot of money into books, they don't need). How should they be able to write anything meaningfull into this book?

Of course, the latter view is flawed by the current game design. I would prefer if a character does not only need a certain level to write those books but also has a certain amount of knowledge available and research done prior to write any book, so (s)he can share some reasonable knowledge. I don't know whether the current engine would support such thing or not, it's just my personal view.

 

Now I'm off of this topic.

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Why not make a scribe skill or something? Make book writing a trainable skill. then let people make a variety of books from very basic(Book of Biology, etc.), up to big books... Then remove the AP requirement for mixing them.. or just lessen it.

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For your example. I don't want to tread on someone's toes, but I think none of the two characters deserves being able to make a book. From one point of view, they both degraded themselves to some stupid machines doing the same thing ~3 millions times over and over again, just because it's the most economic way to level. The game is repetitive enough in itself, to not having the need to force myself in even more repetitions. If someone likes this style of playing, it's up to them, I simply can't enjoy it, the built-in repetition while going up the skill ladder is enough, with some items bringing in a natural break and being used for leveling more than others.

From another point of view, none of them has read any higher level item books beyond leather helmet (I think that's a valid assumption, why should someone invest a lot of money into books, they don't need). How should they be able to write anything meaningfull into this book?

 

 

-.-'

 

 

Some ppl can't understand how an example works...

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The premise of the no class system in this game is so that any character can be built however you want. However, you still have to make choices in how you are going to build it.

 

If you take 20+ pp in nexus you will not be as good a fighter as a pure fighter build. If you take a pure fighter build, you can't make as much fun stuff. It's part of the game as it currently is. Even so, you can negate this whole concept by buying pp if you want.

 

About acp, it is just a new part of the game, if you are unsatisfied, re-evaluate your build and decide what you want to do. Just mho.

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Ok, folk. Why the heck would you read a book on making armor from a person that does not have the ability to make it and may have never made one? I say, if the person does not have at least 4 nexus for the skill they want to write a book for, they don't have the knack for the skill and can't teach you anything. That is what I would say "nexus" is. It is an innate talent for the skill.

 

It takes alot of effort and smarts to write a book or to teach someone. I imagine a less skilled person may be able to write a book, but it would take them a long time to fix all their mistakes and make it actually make sense. I am sure this is why it takes alot of action points to write a book.

 

Also, trust me....leveling to just manu 50 on helms will drive a person nuts, so a book from them would mention something about the anvil laughing at them and the hammer floating around the room and the helms trying to suffocate them. Why read some nutjob's book when you want to learn?

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Ok, folk. Why the heck would you read a book on making armor from a person that does not have the ability to make it and may have never made one? I say, if the person does not have at least 4 nexus for the skill they want to write a book for, they don't have the knack for the skill and can't teach you anything. That is what I would say "nexus" is. It is an innate talent for the skill.

 

Two reasons

1. There are nexus transfer stones and someone can level a certain skill until he gets the level that he wants so he can transfer the nexus from somewhere else

2. Pure all around levelling

 

Also about the original post, i think it is a nice idea, but it is a question of built, most people prefer r/v built than putting some pp's at reasoning/will so they have more Action Points. So if you want to write books you have to make some sacrifices (like your built) idk if its worth it, but maybe it is for the better since market would not be over-flooded with exp books

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