Magic Suggestions

[groomsh]

This system is used in games like TES. The only way to get better in a spell is to use it as often as possible. I like this suggestion in general, but it's quite a complex one to implement. The problem in the incorporation of a new system is the transition of the old one. How do you transfer someone with magic 100+ to a new system without either compromising his skill or leave him overpowered...

Well if this was my decision, i'd simply put all people on same starting point (level 1 in all spells).

Honestly, there is no skill in leveling magic using MD

[evilmangopie]

But there is a skill in spamming other spells to make them powerful instead?

...

And having a level for each spell isn't the same as having levels for different skills (att/def/ranging). There aren't levels for individual weapons/armors/shields/bows etc.

Edited February 4, 2012 by evilmangopie

[Norad]

I like this idea of improving the magic skill and possibly implementing more spells. Using magic nexus is a great idea for using spells. As of right now I dont think theres any perks to increase the efficiency of spells. by adding a magic perk would help out mages and also use up pp for the perk, which other wise could be used in lets say human nexus or attri. Now by taking the perk something like your human nexus should be limited to 3-4. that way a mage cant take perk and also equip the best armor/weapons. which would limit there fighting abilities but also give the mage a greater pvp or pve abilities.

well theres my 2 cents any comments?

[Affliction]

I have tried to think of a way of implementing new magic changes that puts the least amount of work on developers. Sadly, I know nothing in the subject of programming or the likes. So this is my best guess at an easier solution.

 

This post builds off of my earlier suggestion of having levels for spells, but also includes the suggestions of requiring mage equipment such as cloaks and hats and staves.

 

As of now, the highest needed magic nexus in game is 5(for CoL). I could be wrong about this, please correct me if I am. So, lets keep that in mind as i develop this idea.

 

So, as of now, spells require no magic nexus to use. These base spells I will start referring to as "Lvl 1 Spells." No lvl 1 spell needs to be affected, anyone with sufficient magic levels can cast them. The idea for mages comes in implementing the "lvl 2 Spells."

 

Level 2 spells will require magic nexus. Lower level spells like heal, or remote heal, will only require 1 or 2 magic nexus to become level 2. the effect of each spell and nexus for each spell will be different depending on the spell, and how useful it could be once made more powerful ect. The best way I can explain this is by a chart. Lvl 1 for each spell remains the same.( MN= required Magic Nexus. E= Effect )

 

• 
  
• Spells----------------------------------------------Lvl 2-----------------------------------------------------------lvl 3
  
• Remote Heal------------------------------------ MN:2 E:HP given X5%------------------------------------ MN:5 E:add AOE to allies plus lvl 2 effect
  
• Shield---------------------------------------------- MN:3 E:remote shield------------------------------------MN:6 E: add AOE to allies
  
• TTR---------------------------------------------- MN:4 E:increased range------------------------------------ MN:7 E: tele enemy to range
  
• Harm---------------------------------------------- MN:6 E:damage +5%------------------------------------ MN: 9 E: Damage X15% plus AOE to non allies.
  
• Retore---------------------------------------------- MN:6 E:remote restore------------------------------------MN:9 E: AOE restore to allies
  
• TTPR---------------------------------------------- MN:7 E: tele's you +1 ally------------------------------------ MN:12 E:tele's all allies within range
  
• Mag Imunity--------------------------------------- MN:7 E remote------------------------------------------ MN:10 E: AOE to allies
  
• MD------------------------------------------------ MN:7 E: mana drain X5------------------------------------ MN:10 E: AOE to enemies
  
• Invisibility----------------------------------------- MN:7 E: remote-----------------------------------------MN:13 E: AOE to allies.
  

No offense but some/most of these spells really aren't balanced (to be polite). Magic nexus 13 so I can save my allies a few invis pots? Make harm do even more damage, or even AoE? rofl.12 Magic nexus to remote tele allies? As someone with a mage build, i personally wouldn't take any magic nexus for PvE or PvP...

If you would read 1 line lower i said that this was just an example. Not what i thought should be implemented. The chart merely explains the concept.

[Affliction]

For AoE spell i think EL guild system alliance needs to change, otherwise it would be pwnage.

Maybe each guild should ally one or two other guild so there wouldnt be any issues with aoe spells at pk

I dont think the guild system needs to change. I think a party system needs to be implemented. Lets use lord of the rings onlin as an example. You can be in a kinshp (equivalent to EL's guilds) then you can join fellowships to do instances, quests ect. A temporary group. This would help the whole aoe problem and open up many other possibilities not related to magic.

[Aislinn]

@affliction:

Nice presentation. I'd like to make a suggestion though, and that is I highly recommend that you bold the important parts that are MUST HAVE accompaniments with your chart, such as the magic gear. It would help those who make decisions, quickly see what your idea is when they skim over it, and not find it too wordy to bother with. Absolutely no offense intended here either, just a piece of advice from past experience. As concise and brief as possible wins the day.

[scarr]

But what about Magic immunity spells on fighters? they kinda ruin the balance if we would have mages

should the spell be changed? if so how?

 

- back to posting Btw!

[Affliction]

@affliction:

Nice presentation. I'd like to make a suggestion though, and that is I highly recommend that you bold the important parts that are MUST HAVE accompaniments with your chart, such as the magic gear. It would help those who make decisions, quickly see what your idea is when they skim over it, and not find it too wordy to bother with. Absolutely no offense intended here either, just a piece of advice from past experience. As concise and brief as possible wins the day.

Thanks, I struggle with conciseness, but I did go back and bold some of the key ideas throughout the post. I appreciate the suggestion.

 

But what about Magic immunity spells on fighters? they kinda ruin the balance if we would have mages

should the spell be changed? if so how?

 

- back to posting Btw!

 

Magic immunity for fighters does not need to be removed, they need some defense specific to mages so that they are not raped in battle.

 

The solution would be to have a formula for a % chance for spells to break through Magic Immunity. This % to bypass Magic Immunity could be based on the magic level of the caster, OR if we stayed in line with my suggestion, chance to bypass MI could be increased with each magic nexus(or a combination of nexus/magic level).

 

Also, minor changes to attributes such as will, reasoning, or instinct could give some sort of bonus to mages, and a chance to bypass MI could be one of those bonuses.

[saxum]

Would the gear affect mixing? Some have taken the nexus using the pick points in order to make items and I do not like concept that those with $$ can just bypass it. I do not like the idea in general that items can bypass required nexus which is a basis for the game; there are not even days which also bypassing of nexus but now there are items (which need to be added to game including ingredients, books if needed, etc recipes or npcs selling them) which give you PPs.

[evilmangopie]

If you're gonna have a chance to bypass MI, then we really need to tone down the damage of harm, and also maybe give a boost to mag protection spell.

And you know will/reas already give rationality which is what makes one a mage aff?

[scarr]

i don't agree with that armors should give nexus stats

we just need some really useful perks, so people who want to do pure mage, can get the slight advantage over a fighter, because they can't have to many PPs for both magic nexus and perks, and also they probably dont have will/reas maxed out because they have to go for p/c

 

then remove magic immunity from the game, tone down the spells for the non-mages, but increase the magic protection spell for them to make up for it, or some armors that give them +magic protection stats

[Affliction]

Would the gear affect mixing?

i don't agree with that armors should give nexus stats...

 

@Saxum & Scarr: Unless there is a way to code it so that the pp only affect the usage of spells, then it would indeed affect mixing. But I don't think that the 1-3 nexus that most people would use the gear to bypass is really going to make that big of a difference in the long run. Not many people will have any need to try and bypass up to 5 magic nexus for mixing, because they don't have the level to mix crowns and such. So large majority will only bypass 2 magic nexus for mixing i would think. But it is a necessary side effect of improving the mage. Unless there is a way to program the items to where they only affect spell casting.

 

The reason for putting the PP on the mage gear is so that Mages will not wear good armor and swords.Mages should wear mage appropriate gear. The changes to spells will be intended to compensate for the lack of armor (Remember that the spell changes in my post are only a proof of concept, not what i think should go in the game). Also, the change in spells would require adaptation of fighting style, as would be expected.

 

we just need some really useful perks, so people who want to do pure mage, can get the slight advantage over a fighter,...

The point is not to have a slight advantage, but to make it balanced, so that one does not over power the other, and that whether fighter or mage, you will still have the chance to go toe to toe with anything in game (within levels of reason).

 

If you're gonna have a chance to bypass MI, then we really need to tone down the damage of harm, and also maybe give a boost to mag protection spell.

And you know will/reas already give rationality which is what makes one a mage aff?

 

If your talking about toning down the damage of harm as per my suggestion, then we may need to, that was JUST AN EXAMPLE. But yes, I do agree that they should boost the magic protection spell, so that it is based off of the level of the caster to block a percentage of damage from incoming attack spells. (but at the same time, we cannot give fighters so many defenses against mages, that mages cannot go solo into PK.)

 

I am well aware that will and reasoning already give rationality, and I still think that some slight tweeking of the attribute system could benefit mages.

 

The alternative to tweeking the attribute system is to add mage perks. While I think there should be some new perks that are optional for mages, I don't think that a mage should have to spend all their PP on perks to become proficient. (IF we are going by my proposed system.)

 

Mage perks should give an added bonus for those willing to buy it, but not a requirement in order to be a powerful mage.

 

Understand that what is currently a "mage" in game now, would change. and change isn't a bad thing. Fighting style needs to be seriously concidered as well. We need to ask ourselves, "How can a mage go toe to toe with a figher and not be OP, yet hold his own?" The answer is fighting style.

 

We need to have spells that allow the mage to keep some distance between himself and the fighter, to avoid physical contact as much as possible. Mobility and range are the biggest strengths of a mage. A good mage would be able to stay moving and strike swiftly. The downfall for a mage is to get caught in hand to hand combat.(thats why i suggested be able to teleport an enemy to range, but slowing them or freezing them for a few seconds would work too.)

 

Do not confuse my suggestions as a way to enhance what some "mages" already do in EL. I don't want the mage to be able keep up with a fighter in hand to hand combat. This suggestion will create an entirely new way to play eternal lands. Those who want to be mages will have to pioneer the new playing style and perfect whichever system is implemented.Whether it is a form of what I have suggested, or something someone else suggests.

 

 

PLEASE NOTE ONE THING: My suggestion is simply what I feel would be the best and easiest way to implement MAJOR changes to the magic system. It is by all means not a perfected or all inclusive plan. There are countless side effects and areas of play that need to be hammered out and I realize that. But I feel like my suggestion is a step in the right direction.

[Kabuya]

Maybe tweak harm down so that it isn't overkill anymore (for level 1 according to Affliction's suggestion - then its effect increases from there at levels 2 & 3).

 

Then change MI to be what its name claims: someone with MI is not affected by positive spells (healings, shields, ...) either - indeed, those are magic actions too.

 

That means MI will protect against mages at a cost. Is that a viable possibility?

[scarr]

> Remove Magic immunity

 

> Magic Protection

Duaration: 60 seconds

lvl 15 = + 4 Magic resistance.

lvl 30 = + 6 "

lvl 45 = + 8 "

etc.

 

> Harm

Decrease this spell per level.

 

> Remote heal

Increase this spell per level.

 

> Mana drain

Decrease this spell per level.

 

and so on...

 

 

 

Then increase the spells if you wear Diffrent types of Mage clothing, or spend PPs into Will, Reasoning, Nexus or Perks.

 

example;

 

"Robe of the Destruction" would give some extra stats towards spells like Harm, Poison and Mana drain

and a "Robe of Protection" would increase the stats of Remote heal, Shields etc.

Edited February 5, 2012 by scarr

[Affliction]

 

 

> Harm

Decrease this spell per level.

 

> Remote heal

Increase this spell per level.

 

> Mana drain

Decrease this spell per level.

 

and so on...

 

 

 

Can you explain this part of your suggestion a little more? I don't quiet understand.

[evilmangopie]

Maybe tweak harm down so that it isn't overkill anymore (for level 1 according to Affliction's suggestion - then its effect increases from there at levels 2 & 3).

 

Then change MI to be what its name claims: someone with MI is not affected by positive spells (healings, shields, ...) either - indeed, those are magic actions too.

 

That means MI will protect against mages at a cost. Is that a viable possibility?

 

No, has been suggested before, if MI means no restore then it means all pk fights last a few seconds. fun fun fun

[Norad]

If mage clothing increases magic nexus then it should decrease your human nexus equally. So if it gave +1 to magic nexus then it would also give u -1 to human nexus.

[Affliction]

If mage clothing increases magic nexus then it should decrease your human nexus equally. So if it gave +1 to magic nexus then it would also give u -1 to human nexus.

That sounds reasonable.

[Wizzy]

A few spells I can think of that seem to me that might be easy to implement would be "Magic arrow" type spells. We already have ranging in game, perhaps some of the same animations could be used? Spells like Magic arrow, ball of fire, lighting bolt from wand or hand?

 

It would not be un-reasonable to scrap the harm spell all together, and the Magic immunity spell. Could also look at making the magic protection spell act like remote heal so that a good mage could protect the troops? It would be nice to see some monsters that have extream defense and armor, and do not have crazy magic resistance such as the Ice dragon, or even lenord for that matter.

[aredhel]

If mage clothing increases magic nexus then it should decrease your human nexus equally. So if it gave +1 to magic nexus then it would also give u -1 to human nexus.

 

Let's take into consideration that it already DOES take the slot for a possible armor (that's what human nexus is for) - it would only affect the boots and the sword the mage can wear. But it's an interesting thought.

[saxum]

If mage clothing increases magic nexus then it should decrease your human nexus equally. So if it gave +1 to magic nexus then it would also give u -1 to human nexus.

 

Let's take into consideration that it already DOES take the slot for a possible armor (that's what human nexus is for) - it would only affect the boots and the sword the mage can wear. But it's an interesting thought.

 

Actually if player had Human 10 (currently only used to wear artificer cape) it might not make a big difference since there are no items requiring human 8 and 9 mage could wear 3 items AND have full dragon armor.

[Affliction]

If mage clothing increases magic nexus then it should decrease your human nexus equally. So if it gave +1 to magic nexus then it would also give u -1 to human nexus.

 

Let's take into consideration that it already DOES take the slot for a possible armor (that's what human nexus is for) - it would only affect the boots and the sword the mage can wear. But it's an interesting thought.

 

Actually if player had Human 10 (currently only used to wear artificer cape) it might not make a big difference since there are no items requiring human 8 and 9 mage could wear 3 items AND have full dragon armor.

 

Your missing the point. If we are going by my suggestion. If the mage is only wearing 3 mage items, he will not be able to use the full mage arsenal. He couldn't use the strongest form of the spells since he would lack the magic nexus.

 

But at the same time, I don't have a problem with them removing 1 human nexus. I just wanted to clarify the point with you.

[Tico]

That can be done by requiring extremely high magic nexus for casting extremely powerful spells, so players can't put many pickpoints in human nexus and can't wear extremely good armor or weapons.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

Piper

`

150 hydro bar spend and ure back in track of fighter path

[The_Piper]

That can be done by requiring extremely high magic nexus for casting extremely powerful spells, so players can't put many pickpoints in human nexus and can't wear extremely good armor or weapons.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

Piper

`

150 hydro bar spend and ure back in track of fighter path

 

Then lets do something very evil:

 

The lower your phys/coord is, the more powerful your (best) spells are

 

In other words: if you have high p/c, you get a malus on strong spells.

 

And voila, strong mage, weak fighter

 

Piper

[Affliction]

Mages need high emu for ings.