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themuntdregger

Issac Walton strikes again

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There's been about a million suggestions for fishing in the past. Usually about 'how', rather than 'why' it should be implemented. On the latter, the threads usually go dead, which is probably why there's still no fishing in EL. So rather than repeat what's been said in the past, lets have a stab at 'why'. Regret some of you with limited attention spans are likely to find it all rather tirunesque, so you might want to click on this handy link.

 

Anyone who's still left, by all means continue reading at your own risk. It ain't compulsory and no ones forcing you.

 

I'd agree that, just because other mmorpgs have fishing, isn't reason enough to implement it in EL. Other mmorpg's have lots of features that could potentially be copied into EL, but it doesn't necessarily follow that that more=better. I guess something that might single fishing out is that it could be (depending on how its implemented) relatively much quicker and easier to code as a substantive new feature to the game. Why should that be so? Well, unlike other creatures, fish don't need to have the same high level of graphic reference and movements. As per irl, they can exist largely unseen in the water, until such times as they are caught. Hence, there's potential to have a range of both size and types without the usual coding/graphics overhead that applies to more visual creatures.

 

However, just because something is relatively more convenient or easier to implement within a game, doesn't mean that you should, ie it doesn't always follow that easier=better. Hence, its necessary to consider a better rationale for introducing fishing. I guess it could be a very useful gc sink, or provide some profitable new additions to the EL store, but its only going to be effective as such if its also fun and attractive to a large segment of players. So lets look at why that might be the case.

 

a) As in irl, fishing isn't a contest of strength, but one of patience, knowledge and skill (and sometimes luck). For the most part you're hunting a creature which you can't see and which varies its response and location according to time of day, month, weather and a whole range of other environmental factors. Depending on whether you're fishing in the right place or wrong, you might wait a short time to catch something, a long time, or maybe not ctach anything at all. Necessarily, catching small fish is easier, but the larger the fish, the more difficulty and patience is involved. These are all factors that make fishing the one of the most popular sports/pastimes irl, hence grounds to expect they would also be an attractive features in a mmorpg activity.

 

b ) The aspects that make fishing attractive irl are not just competition against the environment, but the opportunity to compete against other players, both as individuals and groups. Irl, competitions to catch the biggest fish, the most fish in a certain time and location are hugely popular pastimes. However, for many ppl, its just attractive as an opportunity to pit yourself against nature, catch for food, or spend time relaxing, gazing at sunsets or just for the fun of it. In short, there's something for nearly everyone.

 

c) Most if not all aspects of irl fishing readily lend themselves to a mmorpg enviroment. You can integrate fishing as an activity for harving food, ingredients to make other items, as a means of gaining drops, as means of levelling, or as an end in itself. Hence, there's a wide potential to link it to existing aspects of game-play, as well as using it to develop new ones.

 

d) It doesn't/shouldn't have to be yet another clickfest. Here's something where the practical requirements can be less about mouse movement than strategy, knowledge, patience and timing.

 

So, apart from being fun, a money sink, innovative and relatively easy to implement, what part might it play within the theme of EL. Well, we already have veg, fruit, cooked meat, bread etc etc so providing yet another source of food is not really much of a rationale. And given that its not about fighting, using it as a means to gain a/d exp is hardly a great reason. Ofc, it could have its own separate levels, but what would be the point in having yet another skill where exp is its own reward. I guess there's nothing wrong in fish providing meat, bones, gc or other drops, and it would at least provide that opportunity without the usual requirement of having to fight hand to hand. However, we already have the opportunity to do that through ranging.

 

Maybe fish could be used to develop the astrology theme within EL. The famous ancient babylonian proverb says that the gods never hold against man the hours spent fishing, hence fishing could provide a basis in EL for players to give gifts to the Gods in return for more favorable astrology. How might that work ? Well, perhaps on catching a fish, players could be given a choice of receiving drops or, sacrificing it to a particular deity (including mother nature). Atm, astrology applies only to individuals. However, I guess it could be extended to apply to groups, ie guilds or across the game as a whole, for example, so as the mood of the gods was used as a basis to select special days. Hence, it could be used to create a rationale for group based activities involving guilds, groups of guilds or everyone.

 

One final thing in favor of fishing. One of the great aspects of EL is the design and artwork that goes into the maps. Not sure if i'm in a minority, but I often go to places just to enjoy the scenary and sunsets. Shame therefore that, aside from the asthetics, there's little practical reason for players to visit large sections of maps (typically close to the sea). Fishing could therefore provide a more practical reason to encourage more use of these areas.

Edited by themuntdregger

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I was just thinking this the other night, how canny! I'd like to see fishing appear in the game. I imagine it would be a case of equipping a rod, standing close to water and clicking on the water. Some random chance of catching a fish would follow. Success would add a few points to the harvesting skill and fish could be cooked then eaten as food.

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Perhaps the catch could be used as a weapon also? :whistle:

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potentially a nice, new, refreshing idea, but could you elaborate some more, your post is so limited.

 

/sarcasm

Oh dear. Did I forget to include a few paragraphs on baiting, luring and trolling ?

 

/faux-naif

Edited by themuntdregger

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Some time ago there was a post asking radu if he could implement a new type of food, to work with the Big Bell perk.

 

This sounds to me as a possible implementation for it. Fish could provide 100 food each time, and as you say, it would be hard to find and a money sink, so maybe this is one of the uses it can get.

 

my 2 cents

AitorTillas

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Some time ago there was a post asking radu if he could implement a new type of food, to work with the Big Bell perk.

 

This sounds to me as a possible implementation for it. Fish could provide 100 food each time, and as you say, it would be hard to find and a money sink, so maybe this is one of the uses it can get.

 

my 2 cents

AitorTillas

Money sinks are good for the game especially ones associated with fun activities such as ranging (AP potions, arrows, etc..).

Edited by hussam

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A few ideas for fish AI....

 

Irl fish movement and feeding is determined by environmental factors. Not all of those are easily replicated within a mmorpg, but there's enough in EL to give finding and catching the degree of challenge necessary to make it a fun activity. So what kind of factors are we talking of ....

 

Time of day - Fish have daily feeding patterns, being more inclined to feed within certain hours and less so outside these periods

 

Weather- Irl, barometric pressure affects the inclination of fish to feed. We don't have the former in EL, but we do have rain and shine which could essentially reflect the same.

 

Time of year - Some species are more inclined to feed in certain months and less so in others

 

Depth - Atm, we don't have depth in EL. I guess it could be approximated simply by how far from land a particular water tile lies. Bigger fish typically prefer deeper water, whilst smaller ones prefer shallow (at least during daytime). At night, its not uncommon for bigger fish to move into shallower water.

 

Sensitivity - Some species of fish are more sensitive to disturbance (particularly during the day) which means you might have to wait longer for them to appear. Bigger fish are in any case for sensitive than smaller fish, which also makes them harder to catch. As per irl, clothing can make a huge difference, so maybe penalise those who wear gaudy armor, heavy boots or bright colored items, whilst favoring the skunk hat wearing fraternity.

 

Cover- Most fish prefer to be close to cover during the day, be it man made objects such as boats and jetties, or natural ones such as trees and rocks. Plenty of nice fishy looking places already in EL, some even in pk zones. Might give a reason for those of us who mix to come and permanently own places like kf.

 

Bait- Any bait will catch any fish, but some baits work better for some species depending on the time of year. Existing in-game items that might work well as baits could include meat (raw and cooked) bread, fruit and vegetables. If you wanted a good money sink, you could invent a range of new ones which could only be bought from general stores, eg 'training worms', 'red dragon flies', maybe even 'pk maggots'.

 

Luck - As per irl, mother nature is likely to take her toll on equipment getting broken, tangled or simply wearing out. Not to mention the penalties that might apply for getting caught fishing from the back of a moving boat :devlish:

 

Equipment- Opportunity for a great money sink, particularly given that bigger fish mean a greater chance of getting broken, and sooner or later mother nature is always gonna make you cast in the bushes. Either way, depending on your quarry, you'll be buying increasing amounts of hook and line lol. Irl, rods don't make a huge difference, but no reason why the reverse shouldn't apply in EL. No reason why they couldn't be made or bought in-game, but no doubt EL shop could offer a 'titanium trout slayer' plus 'cape of no more tangles'.

 

In terms of how you implement such an ai in code, its just a series of random number algorithms which increase or decrease the chance of catching depending on where the player fishes, hence no need to model movement directly as per other creatures. No need to make the size or species storable, allocate the information at point of catch and use it merely to determine that nature of the drop. That way you can have as many variations of size and species as you like, whilst retaining a single server protocol for all fish.

Edited by themuntdregger

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the work to enjoyment/enrichment of game ratio is huge for such a small thing. even the big shit in this game isn't that insanely minutely detailed.

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There's been about a million suggestions for fishing in the past. Usually about 'how', rather than 'why' it should be implemented. On the latter, the threads usually go dead, which is probably why there's still no fishing in EL.

The reason those threads go dead and there is no fishing in EL is because the creators don't want it, no matter how many long repetitive posts are created on the topic.

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The reason those threads go dead and there is no fishing in EL is because the creators don't want it/

 

And thats too bad, I would love being able to fish in EL

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the work to enjoyment/enrichment of game ratio is huge for such a small thing. even the big shit in this game isn't that insanely minutely detailed.

Take a look at the average map in EL and admire how 'insanely minutely detailed' they are. Some in particular (pv is my fave) are an absolute work of art. Not sure if its always appreciated just how much thought and imagination must go into designing aspects of the game that players tend to overlook or take for granted. No doubt the same probably applies to code as much as art.

 

However, there are occasions when code simply seems more clever than it actually is. Relatively simple recursive algorithms can give rise to incredibly rich and complex behavior, eg mandlebrot. Hence, designing an algorithm which gives the likelihood of a fish being caught in a particular tile under a particular set of rather limited circumstances is hardly 'rocket science', especially when compared to plotting movements of individual 3d sprites.

Edited by themuntdregger

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What Aislinn said :( The idea is somewhat interesting despite it's former appearance in the children's game (I will elaborate in a moment) that has become quite popular over the years. But the fact is, Entropy has continued to push the proverbial skill further into the grotto containing all of EL's other "I think X is a good idea because.." proposals go.

 

Here is said "children's game" Info

 

I see your stats are not to high in EL, perhaps it wouldn't be to late to start? :devlish:

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